2013 Ground Schools

[royalblue]

Any word on any upcoming new hire courses?

[Green Onions]

Lastest bid will be out tomorrow. Should shed some light on the hiring requirments to come.

[Pourdu_fun]

Any word on any upcoming new hire courses?

The hiring process will commence with the first new hire class starting in February, 2013.

A minimum of 22 pilots at this time.

[Inverted2]

Quite a few left seat downgrades in the new bid. All the hiring is due to the revolving door of F/Os coming and going. The company is dying a slow death me thinks.

[Stinky]

I hate to say it, but I don't think we'll ever see another upgrade at Jazz. I've been in the right seat more than 6 years and I'm no closer to the left seat than I was on day one.

[Beach 200]

Quite a few left seat downgrades in the new bid. All the hiring is due to the revolving door of F/Os coming and going. The company is dying a slow death me thinks.

Only 8 CT's are getting downgraded. Out of 1266 pilots in total is not a lot. See how many of the senior guys take the VSP. Hopefully none stick around to go FO past 65. Just retire already! Possible mitigation of the downgrades can be avoided. What do you expect after our fleet got reduced? Better than a layoff!

[Inverted2]

Actually there already is a guy flying right seat past 65, with others soon to follow. I don't know where you got your downgrade #'s but there are 25 downgrades in YYZ, 7 in YVR but 17 left seat vacancies in YYC. That's 15 downgrades by my math but hopefully some take the early retirement offer!

[Beach 200]

Your right I missed YVR. It's ashame we can't keep the Captain seats open. But like any company I guess, they rather pay the lower salaries to FO's than stay Captain heavy by 15 positions.

[biatch]

by the end of the bid process the vsp will have absorbed the net captain reduction methinks. the company has been running fat on captains for a couple years and has actually been very generous in carrying some, contrary to the opinions found here and also on the alpa web-board aviation expert forum.

[biatch]

"I hate to say it, but I don't think we'll ever see another upgrade at Jazz. I've been in the right seat more than 6 years and I'm no closer to the left seat than I was on day one."

Stinky:

Yes you are closer. And you'll be closer after each bid as you have been over time. Age 65 events are steadily on the rise going forward, and there are still many things that can happen over the next few years.

However, if it's a captain seat you want, SR and Encore and plenty of tier 3's are hiring. Feel free to go; it's a free country. If it's great working conditions you want while waiting for a left chair in an airline that has yet to sell off it's young then you're in a good place. Perhaps the best right now.

[Mig29]

"I hate to say it, but I don't think we'll ever see another upgrade at Jazz. I've been in the right seat more than 6 years and I'm no closer to the left seat than I was on day one."

Stinky:

Yes you are closer. And you'll be closer after each bid as you have been over time. Age 65 events are steadily on the rise going forward, and there are still many things that can happen over the next few years.

However, if it's a captain seat you want, SR and Encore and plenty of tier 3's are hiring. Feel free to go; it's a free country. If it's great working conditions you want while waiting for a left chair in an airline that has yet to sell off it's young then you're in a good place. Perhaps the best right now.

I don't think Stinky is upset at Jazz specifically or anyone working in the flight deck there, he's just feeling depressed that it's taking so long to move left seat and make little bid more money. But, I still believe that retirements are coming up and that only few people will chose to ride it out past 65, so I'm staying positive. Maybe I'm taking the wrong pills every morning, but for now, I'm hoping things will improve. Time will tell...

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Yes, if you stick around long enough, assuming the company doesn't flop, you will see the left seat. People WILL retire and choose not to go past 65. Here's a look at the number of pilots reaching 65 years old by year for the next 7 years:

2013 - 11
2014 - 14
2015 - 21
2016 - 21
2017 - 20
2018 - 38
2019 - 45
2020 - 42

[Stinky]

Yes you are closer. And you'll be closer after each bid as you have been over time. Age 65 events are steadily on the rise going forward, and there are still many things that can happen over the next few years.

However, if it's a captain seat you want, SR and Encore and plenty of tier 3's are hiring. Feel free to go; it's a free country. If it's great working conditions you want while waiting for a left chair in an airline that has yet to sell off it's young then you're in a good place. Perhaps the best right now.

I don't need to be shown the door, I've been looking a bit anyways. I think most of the guys with my seniority plus or minus a couple of years feel the same way. I hate to be a total pessimist, it's not my nature, but most guys I've talked to feel that Jazz will likely shrink. Obviously nobody knows anything for sure.
I'm just thinking that if Jazz shrinks to 1000 pilots by 2020, where will I be on the list. If you tack on a paycut to be more "competitive" I could end up pretty much in the same situation as I was on day one in terms of pay and seniority, I'll just be 14 years older.
Guys with only a couple of years in don't have as much invested in the company so it's an easier decision to bail. Guys in the left seat are more employable if the sh*t hits the fan, and they're making good cash so no point in leaving.
IMO it's the F/O's with a number of years under they're belt that are holding a decent schedule that are in the toughest spot. (not trying to minimize the stress anybody else is be experiencing) You're basically working a dead end job but you've got an OK paycheck and great working conditions, do you ride it out or bail early for nightmarish working conditions at a start up. I think they call those working conditions "industry standard" now.

[hithere]

Very well said

[Mig29]

as I said, I think Stinky is just depressed a bid (or a bit more?) about the future....frankly after reading his concerns, I feel a bit as well.

Definitively, Jazz management and ALPA have to sit down and draft some strategies for short/long term future. I know, I know...what's the point when AC rules the CPA, but nevertheless, there has to be some positive change. Both ALPA executives and Jazz management took their job function to LEAD, so then LEAD somewhere please.

[Inverted2]

Jazz management and the ALPA union are in a competition to see who can do a lousier job right now.

[Full Ins]

I don't think stinky is "depressed a bit". That was the most realistic post I've read on here for a long time.

[Singlebogie]

Hi guys,
I've been hearing the "Retirement Song" since the day I sarted flying, in 1978, and there has never, ever been a discernable bump caused by them. There have been definite bumps in hiring, but they have been caused by major events and almost always tied to the stock market (Oil booms 1 and 2, interest rates, 9-11 etc.). Stinky and others are looking around and seeing some pretty major events either happening or coming, and they are right to start looking elsewhere. There are many excellent opportunities for pilots with six years at a Canadian regional all over the world. Settling for an OK pay cheque and "awesome" working conditions is fine until one or both of those things change, which they will. Don't be the last one to move.

[Fanblade]

AC town hall meeting. Fall 2012.

Calin talking about the cost transformation programs and applying it to vendors. A question specifically asking why AC wanted out of heavy maintenance with Aveos.

Obviously I am paraphrasing. After the usual talk about an industry with razor thin margins.

"No one is exempt from the cost transformation program. Not us or our vendors. If a vendors is not cost competitive we will find a vendor that is. That simple.

Compete or parish. That applies to everyone including Air Canada"

He certainly was not softening his words. Very blunt, almost cold, and characteristically Calin

Out of curiosity, as stated in the Chorus quarterly results, does anyone know anything about the conditions for AC to apply its one time unilateral right to change the Minimum aircraft daily utilization guarantee on Jan 01, 2016?

What specifically does this mean and what would be the implications for both parties? After reading I think it means the fleet guarantee would stay. The CPA would remain until 2020. I don't see anything about a block hour change. Just a MADUG change????????

Is this clause, inserted in 09, benign or a concern?????

[Joe Blow Schmo]

IMO it's the F/O's with a number of years under they're belt that are holding a decent schedule that are in the toughest spot. (not trying to minimize the stress anybody else is be experiencing) You're basically working a dead end job but you've got an OK paycheck and great working conditions, do you ride it out or bail early for nightmarish working conditions at a start up. I think they call those working conditions "industry standard" now.

While I'm sure you won't get all the perks at Encore that you get at Jazz, I think calling their working conditions "nightmarish" is a bit of a stretch. If you can fly ~80 hours a month at Jazz and getting 15-18 days off a month then you should be able to do the same thing at Encore. You will be flying similar equipment on similar routes after all.

I hate to say it, but IMO Jazz is a dead-end job now. Unless you're planning on retiring before 2020 I would start looking out for your future. 5 more years as an FO on a Dash 8/CRJ is not going to do anything for your career.

[El Comat]

I shared stinky's exact sentiments, which is why I left Jazz (been gone for a whopping 11 hours officially lol). I loved the job and the people I worked with, but I have 35 years left and I wanted to be part of a company that has more control and vision for its future. It was hard to give up almost 5 years of seniority and an easy commute, but long-term job "stability" (we all know what aviation is like) and opportunities are more important to me and my family. I really hope Jazz proves my fears wrong and manages to find a way to grow.

EC

[Fanblade]

Considering this date is less than 3 years away, it is likely a considerable concern for applicants to Jazz.

As stated in the Chorus quarterly results, does anyone know anything about the conditions for AC to apply its one time unilateral right to change the Minimum aircraft daily utilization guarantee on Jan 01, 2016?

Exactly what does this mean? Anyone at all know what the possible implications are? It looks like a unilateral block hour drop. Yes No? Can someone explain please.

[Fanblade]

Can I assume even Jazz employees don't know what this language means?

[rudder]

As stated in the Chorus quarterly results, does anyone know anything about the conditions for AC to apply its one time unilateral right to change the Minimum aircraft daily utilization guarantee on Jan 01, 2016?

Exactly what does this mean? Anyone at all know what the possible implications are? It looks like a unilateral block hour drop. Yes No? Can someone explain please.

Amended CPA terms - July 2009.

Expanded document available on SEDAR. Page 3 of Short Form Prospectus - November 2009:

In addition to establishing the annual minimum number of Block Hours on which the MADUG is based, the CPA
Amending Agreement provides Air Canada with the right to revise the MADUG effective in January 2016 in the event Air
Canada’s domestic market share for the twelve month period from October 1, 2014 to September 30, 2015 has decreased by a
fixed percentage compared to its domestic market share for the twelve month period from August 1, 2008 to July 31, 2009. In
the event of such a decrease, the CPA Amending Agreement requires that Air Canada and Jazz agree upon a revised MADUG by
November 17, 2015, failing which Air Canada shall have the right to unilaterally set a revised MADUG by sending Jazz notice
by November 20, 2015. The CPA Amending Agreement provides Jazz with the right to send Air Canada notice by December 18,
2015 of Jazz’s intention to either accept the revised MADUG or exercise its right to terminate the CPA as of December 31, 2016.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Air Canada shall have the right to unilaterally set a revised MADUG by sending Jazz notice by November 20, 2015. The CPA Amending Agreement provides Jazz with the right to send Air Canada notice by December 18, 2015 of Jazz’s intention to either accept the revised MADUG or exercise its right to terminate the CPA as of December 31, 2016.

The parts in bold don't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling...