YHZGOOSE wrote:The question we all want to know. Either they have a rabbit under their hats or it's game over.
Think of it logically, what can CJ do if TS dumps us and it's pretty much a given they will. Press releases, coast to coast meetings and public statements with B.S. about OTP and product sort of paves the way for their next move. They publically threw egg in our faces so do you think they care what's going to happen to us or hire any of us to fly their birds? Aren't they always complaining we stole their pilot jobs? Maybe they would have less layoffs if they weren't the highest paid in Canada.
SWG is aggressively making it's mark where ever they can. ( Can't blame Mark Williams theory - if the routes are there grab them ). Rouge is coming in with 2 planes and a pocketful of Tango Fares. WJ is strong and their aim is to grow in the sched and charter market. TS has their plans to try to maintain a stance in the industry. And then there are the regionals. The Canadian industry is saturated.
If CanJet wanted to take one last stand they would say screw you all and become the first REAL low cost sched carrier and operate in the same fashion as Easy Jet, Ryain Air, Jet Blue etc. WJ started out touting their horns about being low cost, but that was years ago. They are by no means low cost. There's a need for a tight, sleek no frills outfit that offers low fares and gets people safely from A to B. Pays their crew well enough to make ends meet and nets a profit.
Canada could do well with a REAL low cost scheduled airline and if Rowe was smart he's get Stelios on the phone right now. Stelios would tell him to get rid of the 80's mentality, and become the airline of the future!
This is the part that annoys me. You wanna be reminded that WJ is low cost! If we went under tomorrow you would see what AC does to fares. The reason why you dont think WJ is low cost is you become accustomed to low fares. Now you think low fares are normal fares. Of course i dont wish this but it would be interesting if WJ shut the doors for a couple months to remind you how low the fares have got. Fares are way too low imho in todays air fares. 5% profit margin? Are you kidding? Why should airlines be stuck with uch a low margin while darn near EVERY industry enjoys a 20-80% margin. Freaking ridiculous if you ask me.
Interesting points Goose...I agree...there is no REAL true low-cost airline in Canada. WJ started off as such but their fares (and even service levels) are now pretty on par, if not more expensive than AC! Rouge will be just another "flash-in-the-pan" for AC just like Tango & Zip were.
It's charters galore right now and with the success of Porter, the regional market is also becomming heavily saturated with many hoping to emulate their success. Canjet & Jazz have lost the most in all of this, and I dont see it getting any better for either. AC seems to be slowly distancing itself from Jazz, and cozying upto Scab Regional. Canjet's future without Transat is also looking pretty bleak.
Some say that TS is dangling the 737 carrot in front of their faces for the double-purpose of squeezing further concessions from it's crews AND also to get CJ to lower their price. Personally, I dont think TS can operate the 737 any leaner than CJ, even if they got their $20M in concessions they are looking for...Dont forget they previously parted ways with the 737's (& the A320's they brought frm France) years ago for that reason. Their strong-hold has always been trans-atlantic & long-haul, where they make their bread & butter...especially with Club class.
Canjet on the other hand needs to diversify as I previously mentioned in another thread, but...why take risks in an already saturated market? Better to liquidate (sub-lease the fleet), lay-off and perhaps re-enter the game under better conditions as they have done in the past. It sucks for us in terms of job security but it is a "game plan" that has seen CJ thru a botched merger with C3, 911, 2 recessions, a hijacking, and losing their sked biz to WJ.
If that is their business plan or if they have something else up their sleeve, I just wish they would keep everyone in the loop. When my previous company shut down a division and things were looking grim, an emergency hangar meeting was scheduled for all employees & they laid all their cards on the table. They said point blank its going to get worse before it gets better. Those that stayed & toughed it out later reeped the rewards & those that didnt went elsewhere to pursue their careers. It's the silence & being kept in the dark at CJ that is most frustrating I must say.
My girlfriend is inflight & its even worse for them as a huge chunk of them are seasonal & have very limited recall rights. She mentions they always get treated like second class citizens & are always finding things out through the news. She was a wreck after her last pairing as the agents told her there will be no CJ next year...not a very productive atmosphere to work in & very bad for business. They need to let us know what the deal is...good or bad, we need to know because we all have lives to live & bills to pay.
Legacy wrote:
This is the part that annoys me. You wanna be reminded that WJ is low cost! If we went under tomorrow you would see what AC does to fares. The reason why you dont think WJ is low cost is you become accustomed to low fares
Really?...wow....thank god for WJ for keeping the fares low & AC in line. Nice to know because of "them" it only costs me $700+ taxes & fees to fly from YYZ to YUL where one can fly the same distance in Europe for a mere fraction..
...back to the original topic at hand, I wonder "IF" Canjet has put any thought into going back to their roots as an LCC. They were doing quite well before WJ & AC squeezed them out of it in 2005...hmm
Legacy wrote:
This is the part that annoys me. You wanna be reminded that WJ is low cost! If we went under tomorrow you would see what AC does to fares. The reason why you dont think WJ is low cost is you become accustomed to low fares
Really?...wow....thank god for WJ for keeping the fares low & AC in line. Nice to know because of "them" it only costs me $700+ taxes & fees to fly from YYZ to YUL where one can fly the same distance in Europe for a mere fraction..
Thank you WJ!
Keep drinking that green kool-aid Legacy
Omg are you on crack? All day tomorrow fares are 220. Thats one day notice. Same with thursday, goes down to 204 friday, Oh look saturday 204. HEY sunday 204. Guess what? Monday 204. Sorry but tuesday is 174. Try some better crack. As for you kool aid thing? That cop out is getting so freaking old. Let it die. I think you might need some education in canadian aviation.
This is the part that annoys me. You wanna be reminded that WJ is low cost! If we went under tomorrow you would see what AC does to fares. The reason why you dont think WJ is low cost is you become accustomed to low fares. Now you think low fares are normal fares. Of course i dont wish this but it would be interesting if WJ shut the doors for a couple months to remind you how low the fares have got. Fares are way too low imho in todays air fares. 5% profit margin? Are you kidding? Why should airlines be stuck with uch a low margin while darn near EVERY industry enjoys a 20-80% margin. Freaking ridiculous if you ask me.[/quote]
Legacy if you are not insulting CanJet pilots regarding salary you are reminding me of what? WJ is low cost? Are you kidding me? I can go on line and find Air Canada Tango fares cheaper, and I get better service than from Air Canada than I do from your '' owners''. Westjet is not low cost, but with the likes of persons such as yourself, they are low class! Keep drinking your Westjet Koolaide buddy or go hang out at the airport brewhouse where that girl makes more as a server. Don't insult my integrity, I've got 4 stripes and 3 airlines on you.
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by YHZGOOSE on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oh but the brewhouse server doesnt get profit-share - even tho she prob makes more on tips!
Gotta love "Waco-Jet" & their "sister-wives culture". I had the chance to work for them but I declined as I refuse to live on the Qureshi compound out in Calgary & not a fan of the koolaid...been there, done that at a previous company!
Legacy wrote:Hey TNCM. I think we are hiring about 80 (I heard) for the 737 this year. Send that ressie in. Sorry for hijacking thread.
Ok Legacy, now I see what you are after...Good luck with your recruitment drive!
As for your comments about being educated, some of us have been in this business since you were a swimmer in your daddies sack so please dont kid yourself or think you are above anyone else. Just because we dont have our "jetsmarts", doesnt mean we dont know what we are talking about, and experience is the biggest educator of all in this industry. Good for you for loving WJ so much and being well on your way to becoming their poster child. That type of operation isn't for everyone, it certainly wasnt for me and I had the chance to work for them back when they were truly low-cost and kicking around with the 200 series.
This thread was about the future of Canjet, and yet another imminent shut-down on the horizon...not about CJ vs WJ. Lots of us wondering, and yes even speculating, as to the future of our company as management is being very mum & the future is looking very bleak without Transat. I'm sure there will be lots looking to jump ship and feed Legacy's ego in the next little while, but truth be told some of us are ACTUALLY happy at Canjet and just wishing we had some more reliable work. Sorry TCNM is not one of them and looking to bail so quickly.
Interesting commentary on CanJet............... to the point that family members are taking their usual southern excursions. To that end, I instructed them to book with AC or WJ vacations.
It's been said before. Mr. Rowe has no intension of running an airline. Soon as he dies, so does CanJet. His kids have have no interest in it either. It's a matter of time. Isn't he 80 something?
onetreehill wrote:It's been said before. Mr. Rowe has no intension of running an airline. Soon as he dies, so does CanJet. His kids have have no interest in it either. It's a matter of time. Isn't he 80 something?
Thats the scary part of it onetree...
A company with no vision or direction. Had Transat not fallen on their lap, they wouldnt even be around to this end. Sadly there are many who have a lot of years & hope invested in CJ that will be affected. Some who have uprooted & moved across the country. Perhaps with their history, we should have known better but aviation is a passion for many, and often passion can cloud judgement. Personally, I was hoping Transat would have opened the door to many more opportunities for Canjet, but it doesnt seem to be so. YHZ is quite content on being a "seasonal rent-a-crew/plane" operation at best, and not afraid of pulling yet another disappearing act.
Flysmart you say? ... Canjet - Now you see me, now you dont is more like it!
As a husband, father, provider for my family I feel for anyone looking down the barrel of an
EI line.
As a Westjet pilot and former YHZ resident now calling southern ONT home, I can tell you it's not as hokey as you think. The "cultish sister wives" stigma perpetuated by some narrow minded ignorant easterners is about as much crap as those slamming canjet with incorrect assumptions.
No job is perfect for everyone, and if your happy, making ends meet and most importantly
Have a good lifestyle - it shouldn't matter what your T4 says or color is on your tail.
No carrier is immune to cost creep. Its how we deal with it that counts.
Kag, can you explain why there seem to be so many westjetters that express joy at the very idea of other airlines failing? (Air Canada, porter, transat, canjet, etc)
It's not just westjetters, nor is this just an AvCanada trait. Hide behind a computer screen with an annonamous Name and the shit starts flying.
Human nature, gotta love it.
Jeez……… this is a public forum and if you want to destroy confidence in your airline (Canjet), you are going about it the right way by airing yer dirty laundry in public. If vacationers (southern winter types) get wind of this – and they will, it will be “exit, stage left” on anything to do with CanJet
....CanJet is not going under. IMP is very solvent.......CJ will still be here next year.
OceanGal...I hope you are right & I am wrong for everyones sake. It is actually beyond next year (2014) that is worrisome.
I know job security is a myth in aviation (especially charter), but there needs to be a lot of changes within the organization to attain some sort of longevity beyond Transat. As it stands, Canjet is operating on a very flawed business model. Sure IMP/Rowe family assume no risk, but all the risk is placed on the employees. Ask anyone from Skyservice how that turns out. One can not rely exclusively on tour-ops to fill your planes - unless it is your own in-house tour operator. That has been the recipe for Transat (and Sunwing's) success.
Since Canjet bailed out of the sked market and decided to go charter, why not go all the way? Canjet Vacations is long overdue & with the recognized/respected Canjet name behind it, I'm sure it would do very well...especially out of the maritimes. As an example, Sunwing Vacations started with one beat-up old 757 at Skyservice (myh), and look at them now - 29 aircraft and counting!!!
I don't know about ''flawed'' business model. Canjet does have all of it's eggs in the same basket with Transat being it's reason for existance right now.
But IMP Group doesn't have its eggs in the same basket ... there's the diffrence.
And OceanGal ... you say that Transat employees are missinformed and making unprofessional comments. May I remind everybody that all of us at Air Transat are in the same situation as you. We are in survival mode. This thing can go both ways!! We are scared for our jobs as much as you are. If this contract gets renewed, good for you. You keep your jobs. But most likely another 100 or so pilots at Air Transat will loose theirs (with the fleet reduction forecast)
And let's not forget that Canjet has done TREMENDOUS damage to Air Transat's reputation in the past few years (not attaking anybody here, this is out of pilot's hands). So this issue, among others, is obviously a factor in their decesion to think about brining the flying in-house.
