Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
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Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
As a grade 12 student, finally realizing what he wants be in life, I was happy to be accepted into conestoga and Sault flight programs.
Anyone with knowledge on the programs, how are they? I am a Toronto student, and will either commute daily to conestoga (1 hr) or live on campus at Sault. How do the prices differ? Conestoga admits to a base price at $60,000 over the two year progam, while I haven't seen anything from Sault yet. Open houses are coming up soon, I will get most of my info then, but for now what can you guys tell me?
Anyone with knowledge on the programs, how are they? I am a Toronto student, and will either commute daily to conestoga (1 hr) or live on campus at Sault. How do the prices differ? Conestoga admits to a base price at $60,000 over the two year progam, while I haven't seen anything from Sault yet. Open houses are coming up soon, I will get most of my info then, but for now what can you guys tell me?
Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I think you're almost comparing apples to oranges with these two schools. You will inherently leave both colleges with a CPL and Multi IFR but their structures are very different. If you're interested in living close to home and doing things more at your own pace then Conestoga is the place to go. I believe with respect to flight training it is sort of up to you to stroll in to the airport and go flying. At Sault you are taking part in a regimented syllabus that is not as laid back as it may be in Conestoga. You should verify if Sault's training is also government subsidized, like it is at Seneca. No matter how you go about flight training it will not be cheap. If you are serious about becoming a professional pilot asses all of the options and choose the flight school that is going to best position you for the next step in your career.
Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Take whichever one gets you the most hours and ratings the fastest. No one gives a shit about a diploma/degree in aviation except the major airlines, and really who wants to be a bus driver?
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
IMHO aviation "diplomas" are useless. In the time
it takes to get one, you could have another couple
thousand hours of turbine time in your logbook.
Maybe it's just me, but someone with 4000TT and
no diploma looks a lot better than someone with
2000TT and a diploma - and they started at the
same time.
In an ideal world, you would go from zero to 200TT
CPL/MIFR in one very busy year. Nobody in Canada
does that, but you could if you wanted to.
In the USA, there are places where you can go from
zero to CPL/MIFR/Instructor in one year. We move
a little slower up here.
PS Getting hired has everything to do with your timing
and who you know, not your dazzling stick & rudder
skills or how white your teeth are. A solid internal
reference is worth more than ten puppy mill diplomas.
it takes to get one, you could have another couple
thousand hours of turbine time in your logbook.
Maybe it's just me, but someone with 4000TT and
no diploma looks a lot better than someone with
2000TT and a diploma - and they started at the
same time.
In an ideal world, you would go from zero to 200TT
CPL/MIFR in one very busy year. Nobody in Canada
does that, but you could if you wanted to.
In the USA, there are places where you can go from
zero to CPL/MIFR/Instructor in one year. We move
a little slower up here.
PS Getting hired has everything to do with your timing
and who you know, not your dazzling stick & rudder
skills or how white your teeth are. A solid internal
reference is worth more than ten puppy mill diplomas.
Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I don't think the option of a flying college should be dismissed like that, Colonel. We are talking about someone who is likely 18 years old, has not considered the military and most likely has a family that would like him to pursue post-secondary education. A flight college is a great way to kill two birds with one stone. Sure, in hindsight you may theoretically manage to get ahead faster paying as you go. But for this we have to assume said individual is 100% motivated and committed. If the motivation is not there (or other obstacles present themselves) it is very easy for someone at Joe's Bait, Tackle & Flying School to end up taking years, much longer than a simple 2,3 even 4 year diploma at a college. At a college, you are pushed through and inherently receive an elevated level of training. (Not necessarily, or even at all, through actual flight training). The advantage comes from a lot of added in-depth knowledge that an instructor being payed by the HOBBS meter cannot provide.
Another potential advantage to a college program is the opportunity to make valuable industry connections through staff and faculty at the college. Yes, this can be done on your own at Joe's Flying School as well, but we have to assume that individual again is outgoing, and motivated to do so. As a graduate from a flight college, a flight instructor at a "Joe's Bait, Tackle & Flying School" and now a line pilot for a reputable company, I have seen enough individuals take both routes. They both have their advantages. But to rule out a Flight College for someone just graduating high school is none sense.
Another potential advantage to a college program is the opportunity to make valuable industry connections through staff and faculty at the college. Yes, this can be done on your own at Joe's Flying School as well, but we have to assume that individual again is outgoing, and motivated to do so. As a graduate from a flight college, a flight instructor at a "Joe's Bait, Tackle & Flying School" and now a line pilot for a reputable company, I have seen enough individuals take both routes. They both have their advantages. But to rule out a Flight College for someone just graduating high school is none sense.
Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Both programs have their benefits IMO.
Getting all your training done in two years at Conestoga is a great advantage because you can start ramping or working on your instructor rating that much sooner. Though the cost may seem like more up front, you may end up making that money back in wages (plus flight experience). I don't think I would recommend commuting though. Driving 1hr to and from the school/airport everyday will be tiring and expensive.
The Sault has some advantages too. The program is subsidized by the government and tuition per semester is roughly $2500. Like others have said, the diploma may not ever help you get a job (especially early on), but if the airlines are your goal then it may get you some "points" on an application one day. There is also the option to turn your diploma into a degree through Algoma U. This option will give you the "backup" plan if you lose your medical one day and may open some doors down the road for some type of management job.
Also, I agree with what SKC said about coming out of high school at 18. Some students may need a few years to mature etc, while some students may already be prepared to enter the workforce relatively soon after high school.
Most importantly, like the Colonel said, getting a job is about timing and who you know. Whichever route you choose make sure to build solid relationships with your classmates and instructors as they will be the ones referring you for jobs down the line.
Getting all your training done in two years at Conestoga is a great advantage because you can start ramping or working on your instructor rating that much sooner. Though the cost may seem like more up front, you may end up making that money back in wages (plus flight experience). I don't think I would recommend commuting though. Driving 1hr to and from the school/airport everyday will be tiring and expensive.
The Sault has some advantages too. The program is subsidized by the government and tuition per semester is roughly $2500. Like others have said, the diploma may not ever help you get a job (especially early on), but if the airlines are your goal then it may get you some "points" on an application one day. There is also the option to turn your diploma into a degree through Algoma U. This option will give you the "backup" plan if you lose your medical one day and may open some doors down the road for some type of management job.
Also, I agree with what SKC said about coming out of high school at 18. Some students may need a few years to mature etc, while some students may already be prepared to enter the workforce relatively soon after high school.
Most importantly, like the Colonel said, getting a job is about timing and who you know. Whichever route you choose make sure to build solid relationships with your classmates and instructors as they will be the ones referring you for jobs down the line.
Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I agree, but candidates for airline interviews are selected by HR "professionals" who look for invaluable skills like diploma's, speaking french, EFIS time (sarcasm). Usually the pilots interview only those who are selected for an interview.Colonel Sanders wrote: Maybe it's just me, but someone with 4000TT and
no diploma looks a lot better than someone with
2000TT and a diploma - and they started at the
same time.
Why not look at Confederation College? Done in 2 years, and you won't end up with a lot of debt.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I posted this recently in another thread but it applies here as well I think.
Instructor_Mike wrote:I would question even going to collage or university. In aviation, having the licences (raitings et all), plus hours are what will get you your job. A diploma or degree will not put you ahead of someone that spent that time/money getting hours.
I'd recommend getting your PPL to start and see how much you really want to be a pilot. Even the ground school can be a big wake up call for some people who think that the pilot just hops in and pushes the airplane on button.
I spent a year flying for fun after getting my PPL before I decided to start up CPL training.
This is anecdotal so take it as you will. My ex went to the University of Waterloo program and less than 1/4 that started the program graduated. Reasons were varied be it financial, family issues etc and of course some just couldn't handle it.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Just to clarify the above; students at Conestoga make their own bookings (most of the time) but are expected to book 5 flights a week until their semester requirements are complete. I wouldn't approach it from the perspective of doing it at your own pace; you have to do the same flying in less time than the longer programs.SKCP6SM wrote:doing things more at your own pace then Conestoga is the place to go. I believe with respect to flight training it is sort of up to you to stroll in to the airport and go flying.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Puppy mills are such a giant waste of time. If you want
to fly, get your licences and ratings in a year and go flying.
If that's "not enough" for you, learn to weld.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... ng-useful/
to fly, get your licences and ratings in a year and go flying.
If that's "not enough" for you, learn to weld.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... ng-useful/
Why does everyone insist on taking useless crap?The problem seems simple in the abstract: There are young Canadians who need to get an education and then a job after that, and there are Canadian companies that are desperately eager to hire these people. But there’s a missed connection here: The educational choices of these young Canadians are steering them into fields that are either dead ends, low-paying or hopelessly glutted with applicants. If they’d all just take up welding or natural resources extraction, with a minor in information technology, all our problems would be solved.
But that’s the trouble with human beings: Sometimes they insist on doing what they want to do, rather than what would be optimal for the national economy.
And there are undeniably cultural factors at play. Our society does not place much social value on being a pipe fitter or an electrician. It does place economic value on those jobs, and others like it. Put simply, they pay well. But to the (limited) extent that high school students think about their long-term professional careers at all, they’re likely to value something with a little more flash and style, even if it doesn’t pay as well (which the students probably don’t realize is the case, anyway). You don’t get a date to the prom talking about your future as a skilled construction worker.
There is a further irony at work here. Not only are too many young Canadians prioritizing degrees that will lead to little or no professional opportunities, they’re borrowing huge wads of cash to do it. The cost of post-secondary education has boomed in recent years, going up 200% in some provinces. Yet enrollment also keeps going up: Canada is among the better educated countries in the world, by percentage of population with post-secondary degrees. Students are just borrowing to make up the difference. The average debt-load for a student graduating with a post-secondary degree sits somewhere in the range of $25,000-$30,000.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I recently finished the program, Maybe once upon a time it was like that. When I was there, if you were to slow and not meeting their benchmarks, you would sometimes be grounded, sometimes given a warning, and if the upcoming semster, you still havent caught up, they kick you out. (Nobody should ground pilots!) They changed the rules of the 'game' half way. If you do decide to go to Conestoga, just don't think it's going to be a walk in the park, "do it at your own pace" sort of deal. The two people in charge of the college students, they love to find ways to suck money out of you. They even pick their favourite students. I believe my class was treated unfairly. If you have $60,000 set aside for flight training you will do fine in this program. You will need your own car for sure.doing things more at your own pace then Conestoga is the place to go
However, the flight centre on it's own, if you chose to do so without a diploma/degree, then it is a very nice place. Great facility, great airplanes, and airport is consistently improving.
AS FOR OTHER SCHOOLS, I wouldn't know a thing about them

Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
+1Colonel Sanders wrote:Puppy mills are such a giant waste of time. If you want
to fly, get your licences and ratings in a year and go flying.
If that's "not enough" for you, learn to weld.
Buy a plane, find an instructor or go through a club, then build hours quick. Zero to CPL is definitely doable within a year. If you want to go through a post-secondary program, find a university or college one that is in demand which you can find a job in later down the road as a backup plan. Otherwise, if you want a degree, there are many reputable ones through correspondance now, which you can pursue while working in aviation and building hours. Airlines seem to like aviation related degrees, which are also available through correspondance, for which you can get almost two years credits worth just for having an ATPL.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
While I can't argue with your assessment of aviation diplomas, It would be misrepresentative to assume one can come up with a thousand hours of turbine time on their own, especially within the timeframe we're talking about. That's how these diplomas are sold - the cost of the diploma program would maybe buy you a few hundred single piston hours (which still would be way more valuable than the diploma) but which a newbie doesn't see as setting them apart from the pack in terms of job hunting later. Part of the problem when relating to this:Colonel Sanders wrote:IMHO aviation "diplomas" are useless. In the time
it takes to get one, you could have another couple
thousand hours of turbine time in your logbook.
Is mostly because our education system (read high school) erroneusly places high value on aquiring diplomas and degrees and directs students mostly towards this. Trades are horribly under represented here as are basic life skills (why isn't there more stuff in high school about how to file taxes for instance?). Our schools are dedicated primarily to prep people for university, which flies in the face of reality that not everyone is going to be required to have said education, let alone suited towards it.Why does everyone insist on taking useless crap?
I'll also say that a secondary part of that issue is just the general public perception on what's important about education. Parents after all want their kids to do better, or at least equal to, what they did. Neither of my parent sold the idea their own professions to me, and few in the trades do.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
+1Trades are horribly under represented here
Never mind taxes. All you have to do is buy the softwareas are basic life skills (why isn't there more stuff in high school about how to file taxes for instance?).
for $20 and enter the slips. Tax strategy, of course, is an
entirely different matter - and very poorly understood.
No, I would be happy if people graduating high school
understood the need for a basic, monthly budget. Not
sure how many channels you get on your TV, but there's
this fat chick that makes a living with a TV series by
intervening with young idiots that consistently spend
more than they earn.
No concept of a budget. The idea of spending less money
than they earned was never taught to them. Everyone
(including the government) has this weird sense of entitlement
to live 'way beyond their means, and incur frightening amount
of debt.
If I was to teach high school kids ONE THING, it would be
about "good debt" and "bad debt". Bad debt is like crack -
it feels good and you load up on it, but longterm it's death.
You really can't blame kids these days, though. They have
no role models. They were taught by left-wing schoolteachers
that have never had a real job.
It's really simple. Learn to do something. Learn to create
value. Do something you enjoy. Learn to paint (walls).
Learn to plaster. Learn framing. Learn how to use a saw
and hammer. Learn basic electrical work. Learn plumbing.
Learn to solder. Learn to weld. Learn to cook. Learn to
play the guitar. Learn how to change the oil and filter in
your car. Learn how to use a screwdriver, pliers, wrenches
and a socket set. If you can do even some of the above,
you will never be hungry and you will have an interesting
life.
Regardless of what left-wing nonsense has been poured
into your brain up until this point in your life, learn to do
stuff.
Looking back on my life, I can honestly say that almost
everything everyone told me was wrong. I don't know
if they were stupid or malevolent, but there you are.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
That's not really fair, since in most cases the teachers are only teaching what we the people have deemed it necessary for them to. The preponderence of religious based schools and optional sex-ed would be the most obvious cases, but it gets right down to the rest of the curriculum as well. In most cases a lot of stuff in schools is valid and useful, but in many we don't start steering people in the directions we need them to. There is also very little competitiveness in schools either anymore, another problem (and very notably not something that has come about because of the teachers).You really can't blame kids these days, though. They have
no role models. They were taught by left-wing schoolteachers
that have never had a real job.
The question still remains: what to learn. What one enjoys is often very far from what creates value. There should be more of this sort of stuff to help people all the way through school so they're more ready when they get out.It's really simple. Learn to do something. Learn to create
value. Do something you enjoy.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Not sure how many kids you have in school these days,In most cases a lot of stuff in schools is valid and useful
but I have four, ranging from grade school to university.
I think a fair evaluation of education up to grade 12 is
that 10% of their time is spent usefully, and the other
90% is wasted on useless and heavily biased material.
The taxpayer gets extremely poor value for the money.
What else is new - I know.
Took the youngest to five guys for a burger last week.
In the time it took me to eat one french fry, I taught
her the basics of algebra, which her dope-smoking hippie
teachers hadn't gotten around to in several years.
Then we briefly touched on the concept of a limit - comes
naturally when you try to divide both sides of an equation
by zero - and then onto differentials and integrals. I
understand she won't learn calculus for at least another
five years in our wonderful, expensive public school system,
which I find supremely depressing. Calculus is patty-cake.
Still hadn't finished my fries yet, by the time I finished the
sneaky introduction to calculus. Five guys has introduced
a "tiny" fries. Must try it sometime.
Again, I can't blame the kids. At hideous expense, they
are taught very little and their heads are filled with highly
biased political nonsense.
Which brings us back to the puppy mills. Ok, I can understand
that someone might spend years and years at some backwoods
college, learning to fly an airplane and taking low-rent
academic courses in a classroom.
But again, if so many pilots have "diplomas", why do so many
pilots struggle with such basic concepts as supply and demand?
They have absolutely no knowledge of economics, or finance,
or marketing or accounting - all of which are tremendously
important to any commercial air service which might employ them.
And for that "education" - I use that word extremely loosely -
they pay tens of thousands of dollars?
I think I am getting old. As the years go by, the world makes
less and less sense. And if it weren't so tragic, it would be
hilariously funny.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Well maybe I'm out of touch. I'm going by mostly what I learned in school. Lots of it I realised why it was done later on, while I remember some less than useful material, in many cases the material itself wasn't really the objective, but rather how to study for tests, how to write tests, write essays, do research.Not sure how many kids you have in school these days,
but I have four, ranging from grade school to university.
I think a fair evaluation of education up to grade 12 is
that 10% of their time is spent usefully, and the other
90% is wasted on useless and heavily biased material.
I am aware though that our school system has become somewhat underwhelming though in its performance. Lots of the material we used to learn has been omitted which has severely handicapped our youth. Teaching kids fresh out of school shows these deficiencies. Our kids suck at math. They suck at basic physics, basic chemistry. Many are illiterate, no one has forced them to read anything. Many can't write for that matter.
You concern about the bias worries me, I sometimes wonder if our kids don't get taught stuff because someone thinks it might not agree with them. Sort of the point, hopefully we show them lots of different points of view. I don't see how ther was ever bias in math though, unless you're referring to the fact that we don't reward anyone for doing it well or correct anyone who does it wrong. This has strictly been the cause of parents, and "no child left behind" philosophies to educating. No one wants their kid to fail, but it would do a lot of them good if the threat was still there. These days a high school diploma is meaningless since they're like awards for attendance.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I'm going to partially side with the Colonel on this one.
Since I finished high school, I've never written an essay or had to find the derivative of a curve, dissect a frog in my backyard etc. I understand that some people will need those classes if you are going to follow in any of those fields but I think there is too much teaching the same thing to everyone even when everyone has different goals and learning abilities. You can't cater to everyone and there are enough people that don't know what they want to do even through highschool so I don't know if there is a solution to that either.
My pet peeve about school is that your tested based on your ability to memorize numbers, facts, dates, formulas etc. A science class should have you trying to figure stuff out, not just recite what you are told.
This has gone way off topic, but to get back on topic.... I would recommend that you go get yourself a part time/full time job and experience the real world and do a bit of flight training on the side. Once you have your private you will be in a much more informed position if you want to continue on.
Personally I think everyone should have mandatory service working retail. Then 20 years from now when the poor minimum wadge guy making your latte isn't perfect you know where he is coming from but that's another discussion.
Since I finished high school, I've never written an essay or had to find the derivative of a curve, dissect a frog in my backyard etc. I understand that some people will need those classes if you are going to follow in any of those fields but I think there is too much teaching the same thing to everyone even when everyone has different goals and learning abilities. You can't cater to everyone and there are enough people that don't know what they want to do even through highschool so I don't know if there is a solution to that either.
My pet peeve about school is that your tested based on your ability to memorize numbers, facts, dates, formulas etc. A science class should have you trying to figure stuff out, not just recite what you are told.
This has gone way off topic, but to get back on topic.... I would recommend that you go get yourself a part time/full time job and experience the real world and do a bit of flight training on the side. Once you have your private you will be in a much more informed position if you want to continue on.
Personally I think everyone should have mandatory service working retail. Then 20 years from now when the poor minimum wadge guy making your latte isn't perfect you know where he is coming from but that's another discussion.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I know people are eager to incur frightening levelsI would recommend that you go get yourself a part time/full time job and experience the real world and do a bit of flight training on the side.
of debt, but ...
The above is excellent advice. I would recommend anyone
considering flight training to AVOID DEBT and learn some
other, useful skill or trade. Do it for a while. Save some
money. Do some flight training. If you like it, earn some
more money at your "day job" and do some more flight
training.
With this approach, you end up with your licences and
ratings with NO DEBT and another useful skill or trade,
which you can quickly fall back on in the future when
the pilot gig isn't bringing in much cash.
Also, your "other" skill/trade will provide you very valuable
life lessons about working, co-workers, employers, etc
which many pilots from puppy mills sorely lack.
Remember, all companies exist to provide a rate of return
on the investor's money. They don't exist to provide you
with airplanes to fly, which many pilots seem to think.
I might suggest you learn a little bit about economics,
finance, marketing and accounting - not much, just a little.
Fortunately this information is freely available on the web
if you want to read it. Doesn't cost anything, and you
will learn about how ALL companies operate - and why.
Start your online journey of self-education by clicking here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Start reading, and click on the links at the bottom.
Remember, it doesn't matter what letters you have after
your name, except perhaps to the fat cows in HR.
What matters is what you know, and what it allows you to do.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
+1 CS
I worked in a factory for 2 years. The money was really good but I couldn't handle the job and on the side was doing my PPL. After finishing my PPL I spent a solid summer of flying around like it was going out of style from a local flying club. That was when I really decided to pursue my commercial and I managed to do it with no debt.
I was also lucky with very supportive parents, but through most of my flight training I was working at least a part time job on the side to pay the bills.
I worked in a factory for 2 years. The money was really good but I couldn't handle the job and on the side was doing my PPL. After finishing my PPL I spent a solid summer of flying around like it was going out of style from a local flying club. That was when I really decided to pursue my commercial and I managed to do it with no debt.
I was also lucky with very supportive parents, but through most of my flight training I was working at least a part time job on the side to pay the bills.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I know this will shock the Colonel, but...
+2
But it comes with an addition in that FFS, be careful out there. More young people need work experience more than anything out there. A (not so much) shocking amount of people out there don't know the basics of holding down a job, aviation related or otherwise. That said, they are also woefully underequipped to deal with the workplace, possibly the biggest failing of our school system. Accidents are by far more likely to happen to workers in the under 25 category. All the saving money and hard work is going to all be for naught if you lose your fingers or an eye, or worse if we go to your funeral.
+2
But it comes with an addition in that FFS, be careful out there. More young people need work experience more than anything out there. A (not so much) shocking amount of people out there don't know the basics of holding down a job, aviation related or otherwise. That said, they are also woefully underequipped to deal with the workplace, possibly the biggest failing of our school system. Accidents are by far more likely to happen to workers in the under 25 category. All the saving money and hard work is going to all be for naught if you lose your fingers or an eye, or worse if we go to your funeral.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
I have dark suspicions that our public school system iswoefully underequipped to deal with the workplace, possibly the biggest failing of our school system
a process wherein left-wing schoolteachers teach kids
to be, well, left-wing schoolteachers. That's what they
know about. It's hard for them to teach something they
don't know anything about - like working for a private
sector company.
Remember, schoolteachers went from the public school
system to university to teacher's college to being highly
paid employees in the public school system. They've
been remarkably insulated from the real world for their
entire lives.
Some people think everyone should work for the government.
Obama is one of them. I'm not sure how well that's going
to work out, in the end.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Then that's just a suspicion of your right winged mind. The problem I find is that school is way too strictly focused on preparing kids for university. That's what parent want, because everyone has visions of their kids becomming doctors, lawyers and engineers. So ideally when you get your high school diploma you're encourage to usher yourself directly to one of these institutions and start working on your degree, where all your school up to this point was directed. All that time developing study habits, writing essays, showing your work, and rote memorizing books all now comes into its own. The problem being though that our economy doesn't need everyone to go to university. For some college is going to be enough, most are going to be needed in trade school (to which I would really lump pilot training), and many it will be content to have dig ditches. For most of these, high school will have been irrelevant, though useful if they paid attention to the physical sciences and math. Shop class and home-ec really should take priority for these students. Often though these classes see the first budget cutting, and depend highly on untrained volunteers, sometimes actual tradespeople, but not often ones who should be teaching (I'm reminded of our shop teacher who was frequently intoxicated on the job, so we figured out the radial arm saw, metal lathe and how to weld on our own, not an ideal situation, its any wonder these get cut , well when kids get cut.)I have dark suspicions that our public school system is
a process wherein left-wing schoolteachers teach kids
to be, well, left-wing schoolteachers.
Here's something to think about: When I was in high school, we actually had an honest to God fire arms safety course that you could take. Demand for it was so high that a majority of the kids who signed up for it couldn't take it. Not enough teachers and guns. The course was cut though, largely upon the objections of parents who deemed the course was unsafe for their children, I don't recall that anyone was ever hurt while it was running. Let me repeat that, the parents put an end to it. But not all the parents, certainly my gun loving parents didn't, but a small group of determined parents did. And that's the thing, if you feel the schools your kids are going to aren't being administerd the way you want, then as a parent you got one person to blame. If you feel your kids schools are too left wing, its probably because there's some left wing leaning parents who are directly influencing the school board's decisions.
Remember, schools aren't teaching stuff that the public doesn't want them to teach, but the point of the matter is some of that public is way more vocal than the rest.
Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
To be honest. I did a semester at Sault at first I was like wow, this is going to be great! Once Christmas came around I hated how they did their teaching (not saying it was bad, just not for me) and the way there schedule worked. You don't fly for the first semester which is true. Then you head to the Sim second semester and maybe starting to get into the plane, which is a Zlin 242L. I still have friends there and they told me that leaving the program was a really good choice. Its currently really busy, most students, still do not have their PPL, let alone have done solo cross countries. They're really behind in their flight training and while the education is good, their flight training will be another year so a total of 4 years of it.
As money goes, no matter where you go, subsidized or not. It will still cost you roughly $60,000. Either paying for your flights or paying living expenses.
Currently, I'm at Algonquin College's program. I have to say, I'm much much happier here. You start flight training right away and the education, most of it, is done by the flight instructors. I got my PPL within the year (I started this sept) and I'm done my night rating as well.
Thats my side of the story, Sault is a great school, it just wasn't for me. You do need to do alot of extra education wise, when as far as I've been told, is hours is the most important.
If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.
As money goes, no matter where you go, subsidized or not. It will still cost you roughly $60,000. Either paying for your flights or paying living expenses.
Currently, I'm at Algonquin College's program. I have to say, I'm much much happier here. You start flight training right away and the education, most of it, is done by the flight instructors. I got my PPL within the year (I started this sept) and I'm done my night rating as well.
Thats my side of the story, Sault is a great school, it just wasn't for me. You do need to do alot of extra education wise, when as far as I've been told, is hours is the most important.
If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.
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Re: Thoughts on Sault vs Conestoga flight programs?
Colonel Sanders wrote:Also, your "other" skill/trade will provide you very valuableI would recommend that you go get yourself a part time/full time job and experience the real world and do a bit of flight training on the side.
life lessons about working, co-workers, employers, etc
which many pilots from puppy mills sorely lack.
I followed this method almost to a T. I have minimal debt and at this point I have no regrets. I still hear people spell off about not having a degree, however it hasn't been an issue yet. Many of my friends took the college route and it has worked out for them nicely. Most of them had a 2-3 year head start on me and I've managed to catch up and even surpass some in terms of advancement to that multi turbine gig. Like many have said there are pro's and con's to both. I would encourage my kids to take the FTU route as apposed to the college route. If there is one thing I've learned its that if I can't fly, I want nothing to do with business, and specifically the business of aviation. That alone makes an aviation diploma or a business degree a pretty expensive wall decoration. You'd be better off getting a real job as you build your hours and complete your licenses and, if you are lucky, you may just come across something that you may actually WANT to get a degree in.
I also cant +1 enough about building work ethic and people skills at a job on the side as you do your flight training. I would say 9 times out of 10 I can tell in the first few minutes of flying with a pilot for the first time whether or not they have held jobs with any decent amount of responsibility before they became pilots. Particularly in the 704/705 world your stick and rudder skills mean less than dick all. You are expected to be able to fly the airplane at that level. What holds much more weight is how well you get on with the crews you are flying with. I spend 14 hours a day 5 days a week with our crews. Trust me, ego's and socially challenged people wear on you VERY fast at that rate. It's not just a matter of being friendly, its how to be as efficient and professional as you can, so your co-workers don't have to carry you, or your ego.
This is starting to sound like a rant, which it's not supposed to be, so I'll stop!

It doesn't matter which choice you make, in the end, if you apply yourself, be smart and try and make some decisions on your own, instead of having everything spoon fed, you will end up where you want to go!
PR