I guess SkyRegional has started flying the Embraers. I heard and saw the "Maple" callsign today in YYZ departing from Terminal 1. The EMB had the "Express" branding on the side which while looking fine on a Dash or RJ, kinda looked weird on a bigger aircraft.

Flying the exact same planes on the exact same routes but getting paid quite a bit less to do it. Gotta love aviation.....

Were the pilots standing next to the gate with a tin cup in hand as the passengers boarded.

No they shine shoes in T1 between flights!

unfortunately this is the result of the natural evolution of large corporations. it doesn't really surprise me. what does surprise me is that there are qualified Embraer Captains that are willing to accept such wages. Why would one do that?

A very sad day in Canada's Aviation history

Here's to hoping they fail famously and are just a bad memory by this time next year.

Skyregional Embraers = Porter C Series = Westjet Q400's.

No, the shoe shine job is already taken at Pearson airport.

Sad indeed....I had a chance to personally see both Encore and SKY's contract offers and speak with their people and it's just mind blowing why would someone go there, unless you had even shi**ier deal at your previous job.

Mig29 wrote:No, the shoe shine job is already taken at Pearson airport.

Sad indeed....I had a chance to personally see both Encore and SKY's contract offers and speak with their people and it's just mind blowing why would someone go there, unless you had even shi**ier deal at your previous job.

Since you have seen both contracts, is there anything new in them that hasn't already been posted here on avcanada over the past winter ?

dashx wrote:Skyregional Embraers = Porter C Series = Westjet Q400's.

Huh? Care to elaborate on the Porter reference?

Huh

If you are going to dream, dream big.

That or sell out.

Kosiw wrote: Since you have seen both contracts, is there anything new in them that hasn't already been posted here on avcanada over the past winter ?

I don't have any updates other then what has been posted and shared here....Many people speculate on here but few post what's actually going on over there... Which is weird, because when you ask someone about facts about contract at say AC, WJ, Jazz or Transat - they post them for you in no time....weird hey?

Mig29 wrote:No, the shoe shine job is already taken at Pearson airport.

Sad indeed....I had a chance to personally see both Encore and SKY's contract offers and speak with their people and it's just mind blowing why would someone go there, unless you had even shi**ier deal at your previous job.

I doubt you'll see a lot off lateral moves. I'm sure other than direct entry captains the majority of applicants will come from shittier conditions like you said. Your current WAWCON is great only if it's better than at your last employer.

fingersmac

One thing about the C that doubters don't seem to appreciate, yet. It's intended capability.
It would be a whole new competitive game with a CS300 (140 pax) out of Toronto Island with London City service.
This thing is Tran At ETOPS out of the box.
One can only imagine why it might be worth a shot for RD but you never know.

Interesting thought. We'll see.

Gino

Gino Under wrote:fingersmac

One thing about the C that doubters don't seem to appreciate, yet. It's intended capability.
It would be a whole new competitive game with a CS300 (140 pax) out of Toronto Island with London City service.
This thing is Tran At ETOPS out of the box.
One can only imagine why it might be worth a shot for RD but you never know.

Interesting thought. We'll see.

Gino

YUP! RD is saving all the dirt from the tunnel dig to extend the runways for the upcoming jets. Porter's been on the C series advisory commitee for a long time and certainly not for no reason.

does anyone know how long the contract between AC and SR is set for?? Someone posted that hopefully this time next year SR will be a bad memory.
I have applied for a non-flying position and if SR will be a bad memory in 12 months I may not accept...if offered.

omega wrote:does anyone know how long the contract between AC and SR is set for?? Someone posted that hopefully this time next year SR will be a bad memory.
I have applied for a non-flying position and if SR will be a bad memory in 12 months I may not accept...if offered.

My understanding was 5 years for the Q400 and 3 years for the EMB (the original deal was 5 years and commenced in May 2011) and that AC is responsible for 100% of startup and winddown costs, but I have not seen that in any public document. In AC's published financial reports they label the terms of the capacity purchase agreement with SKY as 'confidential'.

Here is a quote from Speaking Notes for the AC CFO in October 2012:

Earlier this week, we announced our intention to transfer 15 Embraer 175 aircraft
from our mainline fleet to Sky Regional Airlines who will fly these aircraft on behalf of
Air Canada under an existing capacity purchase agreement. These 15 Embraer 175
aircraft will continue flying on short-haul routes, primarily from Toronto and Montreal
to destinations in the northeast U.S., at significantly lower costs. We expect to
transfer these aircraft to Sky Regional in the February to June timeframe.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media ... -Final.pdf



Here is a recent IAMAW Bulletin that speaks to a SKY related issue but does not speak to the term of the overall commercial agreement between AC and SKY:



TO ALL IAMAW MEMBERS WORKING FOR AIR CANADA

Sky Regional Airlines

Dear Sisters and Brothers:

On March 13, 2013, Air Canada officially advised Transportation District 140 of the IAMAW that it has been awarded, by Sky Regional, a two (2) year ground handling contract to perform ramp functions that our members currently perform.

In addition, Air Canada advised the Union that cabin grooming is not included in the Sky Regional contract and that, effective March 14, 2013, our members will no longer perform this work.

Transportation District 140 has always maintained the position that the Sky Regional work belongs to our bargaining unit members and we continue to maintain this position.

Please be advised that your Union has not made any agreement with Air Canada to give up this work. In fact, your Union is currently reviewing all options to protect this work within our Air Canada bargaining units, as this work rightfully belongs to our members.

In solidarity,

Tony Didoshak
General Chairperson, Western Region District 140, IAMAW

BULLETIN NO. 036 – ISSUED MARCH 15, 2013

PLEASE PHOTOCOPY, POST AND CIRCULATE

dashx wrote:Skyregional Embraers = Porter C Series = Westjet Q400's.

Sorry, I should have phrased my question better. Could you explain what you mean by this statement? I don't understand what you're insinuating with the '='.

Gino Under wrote:fingersmac

One thing about the C that doubters don't seem to appreciate, yet. It's intended capability.
It would be a whole new competitive game with a CS300 (140 pax) out of Toronto Island with London City service.
This thing is Tran At ETOPS out of the box.
One can only imagine why it might be worth a shot for RD but you never know.

Interesting thought. We'll see.

Gino

I fully understand what the C Series can do and what it would mean IF Porter were to operate it out of YTZ.

YUP! RD is saving all the dirt from the tunnel dig to extend the runways for the upcoming jets. Porter's been on the C series advisory commitee for a long time and certainly not for no reason.

Do you have any reason to suppose that jet operations, which are forbidden by the agreement under which YTZ is operated, will be allowed in the future?

photofly wrote:

YUP! RD is saving all the dirt from the tunnel dig to extend the runways for the upcoming jets. Porter's been on the C series advisory commitee for a long time and certainly not for no reason.

Do you have any reason to suppose that jet operations, which are forbidden by the agreement under which YTZ is operated, will be allowed in the future?

It was a little Tongue in cheek on my part but Porter is using that line of BS on their pilots to keep them from bailing out.

Line of BS???

I have nothing to do with Porter. So I'd have no idea what their future plans are, but...
in the 60s, Toronto Council insisted there would be no airline operating off the island. Mr. Wong's flying school was it, period. Today, Mr. Wong is no longer operating a flying school on the island and several airlines have operated from that strip since the late 60s.
When I started flying in the late 70s, we were assured the airline industry in Canada would NEVER de-regulate.
In 1986, Don Mazankowski the Minister of Transport decided otherwise and de-regulated the industry.
In 1996, we were assured by industry nay sayers that Westjet wouldn't survive. Well, I'd say they're very much alive and kicking AND certainly very much a part of the airline industry.
Remember the notion that there would be no jet aircraft using the island airport? Seen any lately? Every rule has its exception.
There are many examples I could give you but let's just say the one constant has been change. Change is likely to continue in aviation never mind government minds. That includes Toronto Mayors and Toronto City Councils. All we have to do is be patient and wait for those changes.
Bridge? Tunnel? Never!!
Add to that notion airline owners and CEOs. They must change and adapt OR die. So changes there will happen as well. Look how Air Canada has decided to adapt to certain realities.
Porter could very well operate jet aircraft off the island if the right one came along at the right time and the CSeries might just fit the bill.
It can very easily lift 121,000 pounds off the island and fly for a fairly long distance at a very economical price. Isn't that the motivator for any airline?
It might even change Porter Airlines competitive advantages and shape them into something entirely different to what is imagined today.

Think they'll change who they are in the future?

Gino Under

kingtwo wrote:A very sad day in Canada's Aviation history

Here's to hoping they fail famously and are just a bad memory by this time next year.

My guess is that by this time next year they will just be hitting their stride. Everything new has growing pains.

AC and Westjet, with the use of Encore and SR, are resetting the competitive bar ala USA style.

Omega,

All contracts have a termination date (realestate, car lease, as well as CPAs). Even if Sky's is only 3 years long (unconfirmed) I would definitely expect to see a renewal. My guess is a short initial time frame will give them some time to get started and be able to negotiate a renewal once they have a better understanding of the business they are getting into. Hope they have made you a decent offer.

Also, I know there are some people going there because they are expecting growth. It's a risky business so don't forget, it could sink but then again, it could grow big.

Good luck