Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
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Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I am a grade 12 student in Toronto, and i've posted on this forum a few times and gotten a number of helpful responses. I've been accepted into a few flight colleges, and one aviation operation program. I'm thinking of taking that first before jumping into any piloting programs but here's a question; what happens after I get my commercial license? And my night rating and my multi engine rating. I am doing research on what my options are, but lets say you were me, and you just graduated with 200 flight hours, 100 PIC.....now what?
How many hours does it take to get your first job as a pilot?
What kind of jobs would they be? ( I do not want to do flight instructor, its really not my calling)
Where would be the best place to look?
My dream is be a pilot for a photography company, or something along the lines of national geographic. I'm a city kid, and I know there is not much opportunity here for pilots unless your in with the big fish, so what would you do if you were in my position? What did you do after you graduated?
How many hours does it take to get your first job as a pilot?
What kind of jobs would they be? ( I do not want to do flight instructor, its really not my calling)
Where would be the best place to look?
My dream is be a pilot for a photography company, or something along the lines of national geographic. I'm a city kid, and I know there is not much opportunity here for pilots unless your in with the big fish, so what would you do if you were in my position? What did you do after you graduated?
Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
All your questions can be answered in the search button. Best of luck
Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
JasonNBD.. as posted above, there is a plethora of info on this forum that can be found through the search function. You are not the first nor last to consider aviation as a career.
I'll answer your actual questions posed, but wont postulate on what you want to hear. Because many here will tell you things you dont want to hear and are going to ignore.
What happens after you get your commercial licence? You have to renew a medical every year till you're forty to hold it and then twice a year. Mostly at your own expense. Other than that, a bare commercial licence is nothing more than a glorified licence to learn and be abused in the process. Multi? Nothing.. no one will a) insure you b) pay you to fly as PIC in a multi. IFR? Well again.. another expensive endorsement that will have to be renewed (at some cost) to you every 2 years if you dont have a job that does it for you. Which, you'll be struggling to find. Essentially.. with the standard 'low timer resume' of CPL MIFR, CAT4 Inst rating and Float rating.. you are essentially bottom of the barrel. Most get there start on the ramp for a couple of years/seasons, or flying as a class four instructor for a marginal flying club or school. VERY VERY few people actually get into a seat right off the bat.
How many hours does it take to get your first job as a pilot? This is a tough one. There is no standard. Some people get hired with 250.. some with 500 of their own accord. To be marketable, you need to have operational experience OR find someone willing to give it to you, assuming they get something BACK from you (labour, loyalty, etc) You will quickly see that MOST operations want 500-1000hrs for entry level jobs. Some higher at 1500 to be a co-pilot! Again, this is 'Operational experience'. Renting and bombing around on daddys dime wont get you very far.
What kind of jobs? There are many that arent as flight instructors. Working the ramp for a reputable operation that has a dispatch/ramp to flightline program (CMA, Perimeter, Borek, Air Tindi etc), working on the dock for a float operator for a season or two in hopes of being checked out and flying their 180/185, 206 etc. Building hours working for a skydive/jump zone, Towing gliders etc.
Where would be the best place to look? Thats the million dollar question. Its all but impossible to know where and when the right place and time are, but thats usually how it happens. Well, that and persistence and effort. Track down (easy with the internet) all of the local gliding clubs, drop zones, air operators that have small aircraft or who take on rampies and find the path that best fits you. LOTS of options if you know where and what to look for.. and then there is a ton of information posted on here about pretty much every last operator in the country. Take that info with a grain of salt.. the only thing in aviation that whines more than a turbine engine is the pilot operating it.
If I were in your position. I would pick a good trade that interests you and while going through the apprenticeship program for that well paying trade, be working on private and commercial licences, so that when times are tough, or there are no flying jobs or you end up with a very part time gig, you have a skill set that you can fall back on to pay the bills. There are no shortage of trades jobs in MOST canadian cities and those skills are very transferable.. A plumber is a plumber anywhere in the country!
What did I do after I graduated? I pestered every last operator I could find to get my foot in the door. It took almost a year of phone calls, road trips, e-mails and networking to get that start.. During that time though, I ran heavy equipment and worked in parts sales to make sure I was debt free and paid off all my training! (CPL MIFR is a costly endeavour!) After that, it took another couple years before I was actually employable and wouldnt be laughed at or have my resume immediately turfed.
As for your dreams of flying and photographing. Those are early stage jobs, and they are few and far between. Maybe you'd be better off as a travelling photographer? Take a couple of courses in that direction or in digital media..
I'll answer your actual questions posed, but wont postulate on what you want to hear. Because many here will tell you things you dont want to hear and are going to ignore.
What happens after you get your commercial licence? You have to renew a medical every year till you're forty to hold it and then twice a year. Mostly at your own expense. Other than that, a bare commercial licence is nothing more than a glorified licence to learn and be abused in the process. Multi? Nothing.. no one will a) insure you b) pay you to fly as PIC in a multi. IFR? Well again.. another expensive endorsement that will have to be renewed (at some cost) to you every 2 years if you dont have a job that does it for you. Which, you'll be struggling to find. Essentially.. with the standard 'low timer resume' of CPL MIFR, CAT4 Inst rating and Float rating.. you are essentially bottom of the barrel. Most get there start on the ramp for a couple of years/seasons, or flying as a class four instructor for a marginal flying club or school. VERY VERY few people actually get into a seat right off the bat.
How many hours does it take to get your first job as a pilot? This is a tough one. There is no standard. Some people get hired with 250.. some with 500 of their own accord. To be marketable, you need to have operational experience OR find someone willing to give it to you, assuming they get something BACK from you (labour, loyalty, etc) You will quickly see that MOST operations want 500-1000hrs for entry level jobs. Some higher at 1500 to be a co-pilot! Again, this is 'Operational experience'. Renting and bombing around on daddys dime wont get you very far.
What kind of jobs? There are many that arent as flight instructors. Working the ramp for a reputable operation that has a dispatch/ramp to flightline program (CMA, Perimeter, Borek, Air Tindi etc), working on the dock for a float operator for a season or two in hopes of being checked out and flying their 180/185, 206 etc. Building hours working for a skydive/jump zone, Towing gliders etc.
Where would be the best place to look? Thats the million dollar question. Its all but impossible to know where and when the right place and time are, but thats usually how it happens. Well, that and persistence and effort. Track down (easy with the internet) all of the local gliding clubs, drop zones, air operators that have small aircraft or who take on rampies and find the path that best fits you. LOTS of options if you know where and what to look for.. and then there is a ton of information posted on here about pretty much every last operator in the country. Take that info with a grain of salt.. the only thing in aviation that whines more than a turbine engine is the pilot operating it.
If I were in your position. I would pick a good trade that interests you and while going through the apprenticeship program for that well paying trade, be working on private and commercial licences, so that when times are tough, or there are no flying jobs or you end up with a very part time gig, you have a skill set that you can fall back on to pay the bills. There are no shortage of trades jobs in MOST canadian cities and those skills are very transferable.. A plumber is a plumber anywhere in the country!
What did I do after I graduated? I pestered every last operator I could find to get my foot in the door. It took almost a year of phone calls, road trips, e-mails and networking to get that start.. During that time though, I ran heavy equipment and worked in parts sales to make sure I was debt free and paid off all my training! (CPL MIFR is a costly endeavour!) After that, it took another couple years before I was actually employable and wouldnt be laughed at or have my resume immediately turfed.
As for your dreams of flying and photographing. Those are early stage jobs, and they are few and far between. Maybe you'd be better off as a travelling photographer? Take a couple of courses in that direction or in digital media..
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
There are many things that can be done.. Il tell you what I did after college.
City kid just like you, went to college in Thunder Bay.. The summer before I finished the program I drove up north to meet some chief pilots/operators.. Did not get a job my first year after graduating.. Spent some time working an odd job, before it was time for a road trip to the same companies I kept in touch with..
Long story short, got a job in NW Ontario to work the dock, ended up doing that for 2 months before being put in the 185 full time.. Spent 2 years at the company and moved on with a lot of great memories.. Another year after that and I'm flying a twin turbine A/C.
Sometimes what it takes is right place right time.. But always the right attitude.
Ohh and I now that I have seen the rest of Canada. I must say I hate Toronto.
All I can say is enjoy the ride, as hard and frustrating that it might be.. If flying is what you love, your motivation will let you get the career you want.
City kid just like you, went to college in Thunder Bay.. The summer before I finished the program I drove up north to meet some chief pilots/operators.. Did not get a job my first year after graduating.. Spent some time working an odd job, before it was time for a road trip to the same companies I kept in touch with..
Long story short, got a job in NW Ontario to work the dock, ended up doing that for 2 months before being put in the 185 full time.. Spent 2 years at the company and moved on with a lot of great memories.. Another year after that and I'm flying a twin turbine A/C.
Sometimes what it takes is right place right time.. But always the right attitude.
Ohh and I now that I have seen the rest of Canada. I must say I hate Toronto.
All I can say is enjoy the ride, as hard and frustrating that it might be.. If flying is what you love, your motivation will let you get the career you want.
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
GUMPS:Since people just can't wait to give their opinion (me included) I hate when people answer people's questions with telling them to search for it and not bother the very busy people sitting around waiting to give their 2 cents to any post that comes up.
As for answers good job Rowdy and Morepower...I would agree with what they said and generally get experience flying but as Rowdy suggested maybe get a job as a traveling photographer. Probably more money in selling pictures than flying.
Here is a link to a pilot who takes pictures to make ends due (kidding but I am sure it helps
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jspitfire/
Figure out if it's the pictures or the flying that turns your crank and then go from there. Come back and ask again once you figure that out, hopefully we can provide some information and not just inform you where the search button is.
As for answers good job Rowdy and Morepower...I would agree with what they said and generally get experience flying but as Rowdy suggested maybe get a job as a traveling photographer. Probably more money in selling pictures than flying.
Here is a link to a pilot who takes pictures to make ends due (kidding but I am sure it helps

Figure out if it's the pictures or the flying that turns your crank and then go from there. Come back and ask again once you figure that out, hopefully we can provide some information and not just inform you where the search button is.
Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
Jason,
After your CPL you should not be renting anymore airplane time other than to stay current if you don't have a job. Do not think that by renting the C172 from your local school you will have a better shot at a job. Here's some advice:
1) Expect to live in places where a lot of flying needs to be done and there are not a lot of local pilots. Places like Thompson, Sioux Lookout, etc. The more remote you are willing to live, the better your chances of getting that all elusive first job.
2) Know how to do something other than fly a plane. At a smaller operator you will have to be a jack of all trades. That is what employers look for- a jack of all trades- that can also fly an airplane. Maybe you're good at twisting wrenches, carpentry, making a website, etc.
3) Work hard, don't complain (unless you're being asked to do something dangerous) and stick to your commitments.
After your CPL you should not be renting anymore airplane time other than to stay current if you don't have a job. Do not think that by renting the C172 from your local school you will have a better shot at a job. Here's some advice:
1) Expect to live in places where a lot of flying needs to be done and there are not a lot of local pilots. Places like Thompson, Sioux Lookout, etc. The more remote you are willing to live, the better your chances of getting that all elusive first job.
2) Know how to do something other than fly a plane. At a smaller operator you will have to be a jack of all trades. That is what employers look for- a jack of all trades- that can also fly an airplane. Maybe you're good at twisting wrenches, carpentry, making a website, etc.
3) Work hard, don't complain (unless you're being asked to do something dangerous) and stick to your commitments.
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I used to know a guy who had a large-ish ultralight-type of plane from which he would take pictures for adventure magazines. It seemed like a pretty cool job. I don't know how lucrative it was. He owned the plane himself and travelled all over the place taking really cool pictures. The plane had two engines, an ultralight-style structure and a tailwheel. I don't know what it was called or whether he still does it. One of my wife's friends was an adventure travel writer and she worked with the guy in Peru or something. I used to know him back when I was in school. I'll google his name and try to find out more if you like.
Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I'd check this guy out:
http://paulnicklen.com/
He ended up buying an ultralight to aid his photography. He now shoots for National Geographic and does AMAZING work. This man is pretty much my idol as a photographer and for lifestyle.
http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_nicklen_t ... lands.html
http://paulnicklen.com/
He ended up buying an ultralight to aid his photography. He now shoots for National Geographic and does AMAZING work. This man is pretty much my idol as a photographer and for lifestyle.
http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_nicklen_t ... lands.html
Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
JasonNBD,
With your interest in Photography after you get your Commercial Multi IFR look into companies that do Aerial Photo Survey.
Thats the flying niche I fell into after I earned my licence, I had around 500hrs when I was hired to fly a Cessna 310 taking Large Format Vertical mapping imagery.
Some Companies are:
Geodesy Remote Sensing
North West Geomatics
Foto Flight
Geographic Air Survey Ltd.
Aero-Photo
Good Luck
With your interest in Photography after you get your Commercial Multi IFR look into companies that do Aerial Photo Survey.
Thats the flying niche I fell into after I earned my licence, I had around 500hrs when I was hired to fly a Cessna 310 taking Large Format Vertical mapping imagery.
Some Companies are:
Geodesy Remote Sensing
North West Geomatics
Foto Flight
Geographic Air Survey Ltd.
Aero-Photo
Good Luck
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I second what Rowdy and MorePower! said.
I think it would definitely be worth having some sort of trade in your back pocket to back up your flying career...I'm a college grad, originally from the "T-dot" and went as far north as my first job would take me because float flying was what I wanted. Now in my late 30's occasionally thinking "what the hell would I do if I ever lost my medical or couldn't fly anymore?" It's happened to people I know and definitely not a good feeling.
Unless flying is your passion and it's all you've wanted to to since you can remember. There's probably no one here that would tell you to no follow your dream...but it sounds like you're willing to put some research into your decisions and make some wise choices.
Good luck!
I think it would definitely be worth having some sort of trade in your back pocket to back up your flying career...I'm a college grad, originally from the "T-dot" and went as far north as my first job would take me because float flying was what I wanted. Now in my late 30's occasionally thinking "what the hell would I do if I ever lost my medical or couldn't fly anymore?" It's happened to people I know and definitely not a good feeling.
Unless flying is your passion and it's all you've wanted to to since you can remember. There's probably no one here that would tell you to no follow your dream...but it sounds like you're willing to put some research into your decisions and make some wise choices.
Good luck!
Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I dont think there are many here that would tell someone to give up on their dreams. I just think it's best to have a backup and fall back. Its VERY easy to 1) lose a medical 2) sewer yourself in this tight nit industry. 3) not make enough money.
Being well informed on the costs of flight training, the realities of the industry and the first formative years is key. Nobody ever says 'I researched this too much'.
Being well informed on the costs of flight training, the realities of the industry and the first formative years is key. Nobody ever says 'I researched this too much'.
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I did my training in Florida, I got my FAA Multi Instrument and I had ~250 hours at that stage. I walked out from there and I had nothing to go on, all I knew is that I didn't want to do larger commercial aircraft. Simply the more I trained towards them the less I was interested in them. So while spending money is something we like to avoid, I dropped a bunch of money on getting my float rating and some hours that are actually of some use (180 on Edo 2960's) and just recently I got offered my first job, which I start pretty soon.
I don't mean to blanket-offend everyone on this board when I say this, but looking around I seem to see a lot of bitter pilots on here and for me that isn't what it's about. You're only 150 hours 'behind' me, I'm low hours too so perhaps I don't speak with the wisest tongue. But you have to do what you love doing, and do it somewhere you love doing it. Not immediately, I mean I'm not going to wind up flying on the coast in a months time as much as the next newbie isn't going to be flying 747's left seat in a week. *shrug*
Meet people, be outgoing, try new things and try not to get too disheartened while looking for a job. I never thought about float flying until I'd finished my training, even then it was a "I'd like to try it" and it's turned into the only type of flying I really want to do right now.
Knowing people though seems to be critical. As critical as being good in the plane and a nice guy on the dock.
I don't mean to blanket-offend everyone on this board when I say this, but looking around I seem to see a lot of bitter pilots on here and for me that isn't what it's about. You're only 150 hours 'behind' me, I'm low hours too so perhaps I don't speak with the wisest tongue. But you have to do what you love doing, and do it somewhere you love doing it. Not immediately, I mean I'm not going to wind up flying on the coast in a months time as much as the next newbie isn't going to be flying 747's left seat in a week. *shrug*
Meet people, be outgoing, try new things and try not to get too disheartened while looking for a job. I never thought about float flying until I'd finished my training, even then it was a "I'd like to try it" and it's turned into the only type of flying I really want to do right now.
Knowing people though seems to be critical. As critical as being good in the plane and a nice guy on the dock.
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
If you go to a reputable flight college ... Ie.. One that a regional hires from... Make a point to get along with everyone.. Because where i work.. Almost all new hires start from the chief pilot asking if we know anyone who wants a job. If your an ok dude/dude et... And your previous instructor or class mate ahead of you was lucky enough to get hired and is in good standing with the company you stand a good chance at landing a 704 or 705 job. There are otherways to get work but making connections is your fastest way into a cockpit. Goodluck.
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
I think that you'll find that many of the 'bitter' pilots are people who love flying to this day, but who can't separate the abuse to their relationships, bank account, quality of life, etc.. from that love..I don't mean to blanket-offend everyone on this board when I say this, but looking around I seem to see a lot of bitter pilots on here and for me that isn't what it's about. You're only 150 hours 'behind' me, I'm low hours too so perhaps I don't speak with the wisest tongue. But you have to do what you love doing, and do it somewhere you love doing it. Not immediately, I mean I'm not going to wind up flying on the coast in a months time as much as the next newbie isn't going to be flying 747's left seat in a week. *shrug*
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Re: Graduate from a college flight program...now what?
Jason
First off I am glad you recognize instructing is not of interest to you. There are already far too many unmotivated and disinterested pilots who are only instructing as a way to gain hours.
The reality is that a brand new fresh out of college CPL's are a dime a dozen and do not have much to offer a prospective employer. Unfortunately I see far too much of the attitude of " I just spent 60 K for my CPL MEIFR therefore I am owed a job".
The industry doesn't owe you anything, full stop.
Flying in Canada is a small industry and most hiring comes from personal contacts. Therefore I recommend you take any job that will get you working in the industry even if it probably will not be a flying position. Ramp/Dock/Dispatch work gets you on the inside and will give you contacts and visibility to those who are looking for pilots. I am on my 5th job and I never applied for any of them. All came about as a result of a recommend from somebody I knew.
Make sure you are prepared for the financial reality of the first few years. It will be a hand to mouth existance with you likely having to make substantial sacrifices. Being debt free and with a bit of money in your bank account is a huge advantage when starting out.
My experience is that maybe 2 in 5 people who start out training with the intention of flying for a living will be actually ever get a full time flying job after they finish their training and only 1 in 5 will still be working as a pilot 5 years later.
All the guys/gals I know who have made a career as a pilot really wanted to fly, some to an almost irrational extent. Those that got into flying so they could wear the cool uniform or tell women that they were A Pilot or thought that it was all about sitting in the shiny jet going to exotic places or don't know what they want to do so they decided to try flying, all dropped out pretty quickly.
First off I am glad you recognize instructing is not of interest to you. There are already far too many unmotivated and disinterested pilots who are only instructing as a way to gain hours.
The reality is that a brand new fresh out of college CPL's are a dime a dozen and do not have much to offer a prospective employer. Unfortunately I see far too much of the attitude of " I just spent 60 K for my CPL MEIFR therefore I am owed a job".
The industry doesn't owe you anything, full stop.
Flying in Canada is a small industry and most hiring comes from personal contacts. Therefore I recommend you take any job that will get you working in the industry even if it probably will not be a flying position. Ramp/Dock/Dispatch work gets you on the inside and will give you contacts and visibility to those who are looking for pilots. I am on my 5th job and I never applied for any of them. All came about as a result of a recommend from somebody I knew.
Make sure you are prepared for the financial reality of the first few years. It will be a hand to mouth existance with you likely having to make substantial sacrifices. Being debt free and with a bit of money in your bank account is a huge advantage when starting out.
My experience is that maybe 2 in 5 people who start out training with the intention of flying for a living will be actually ever get a full time flying job after they finish their training and only 1 in 5 will still be working as a pilot 5 years later.
All the guys/gals I know who have made a career as a pilot really wanted to fly, some to an almost irrational extent. Those that got into flying so they could wear the cool uniform or tell women that they were A Pilot or thought that it was all about sitting in the shiny jet going to exotic places or don't know what they want to do so they decided to try flying, all dropped out pretty quickly.