Cessna 185 down in Mont-Laurier

[jpilot77]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/04/pi ... -mountains

Pilot did not survive.

[armchair]

Here's a pic of the aircraft 10 years ago... http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_ ... d=01233814

RIP, pilot was reported in Quebec media to be Denis Thomassin, very experienced pilot but relatively new to the 185. He owned a Malibu and others, so he was no newbie. Sad loss to the APBQ, he was well known in Quebec aviation circles.

[RichAir]

TSB focusses on the pilot seat. I think I see where they are going with that one

[Shiny Side Up]

Note to other pilots out there, if you do not have the secondary stop installed on your Cessna, get it installed immediately. Especially so if its a Cessna taildragger.

[Rudder Bug]

TSB focusses on the pilot seat. I think I see where they are going with that one

+1 Rich and Shiny. I've seen that more than enough.

I had a close call, a very close one in a 206 out of a short airstrip, bordered with tall trees, in a bad crosswind. I've never ever got a Cessna airborne without making sure the pilot's seat could not slide back.

Anyhow, for all of you Cessna owners, no matter the year and model, who don't have it yet, just fly to a Cessna dealer near you and get it installed FOR FREE asap. Cessna pays the bill. You can't afford not having it.

http://www.askbob.aero/content/service- ... seat-stops

Gilles

[petpad]

The following statement was posted in the forum at "Les Ailes Québécoises" about the C-185 crash at Mont Laurier:

C-FFWD a écrit:Selon les informations officielles que j'ai obtenu:

1- Il n'y aura pas de rapport d'accident par le BST.

2- La cause de l'accident aurait été un recul de siège du pilote pas correctement verrouillé.


Il ne reste que 2 mois pour se prévaloir de l'installation gratuite (payée par Cessna) du "Secondary Seat Stop Kit", le SEB07-5 Rev 4. Il faut toutefois comprendre que la main d'oeuvre remboursé par Cessna ne couvre qu'environ 50% de taux de main d'oeuvre typique d'un atelier, ce qui explique probablement pourquoi les Centres de Service Cessna ne semblent pas très agressifs dans leurs efforts d'installer des "secondary seat stop". C'est très dommage.

-Pascal

This poster is credible but he did not specify his source at to what he heard was the "cause" of the accident :the seat backed-up because it had not been properly secured to the rails. I assume he got this directly from a TSB investigator or TC inspector. The Cessna offer to have the secondary seat rail stop kit installed for free expires soon, and from what I read there, most Cessna dealers are on backorder anyway for the device. I would not be surprised to see Cessna extend the deadline, but as stated earlier, Cessna owners, particularly tail dragger type, may want to look into this if they haven't done so already. I never really believed Denis Thomassin would have lost control without reason. Now it seems like confirmation that the seat did back-up, despite the "no TSB report" will be issued.

[pelmet]

Note to other pilots out there, if you do not have the secondary stop installed on your Cessna, get it installed immediately. Especially so if its a Cessna taildragger.

Also, when you move your seat into position and release the seat letch for locking, try to move the seat forward and aft with your body several times to make sure that the seat will not move.

And if it does slide aft on takeoff, I suggest that you consider(although, there is no guarantee that it will be the better option) just letting go of everything, release the belt and then take action or at least the first item.

Other suggestions welcome.

[Caracrane]

CTM a Grosse-Ile mon Gilles!

[Shiny Side Up]

Also, when you move your seat into position and release the seat letch for locking, try to move the seat forward and aft with your body several times to make sure that the seat will not move.

The problem with the old Cessna seats is that even when the normal latch is engaged, wear on the seat rail can cause it to come unlatched. This is worst in the old single pin seats - of which generally all the taildraggers have, the newer dual pin seats didn't appear until the late seventies. While the "Cessna butt shuffle" is recommended, the only guarantee is having the secondary stop installed.

And if it does slide aft on takeoff, I suggest that you consider(although, there is no guarantee that it will be the better option) just letting go of everything, release the belt and then take action or at least the first item.

If the seat comes loose on take off you're going to be f@cked. If it happens shortly after you get into the air, then more so. Planning any actions as to what to do are going to be moot. You aren't strong enough, fast enough or clever enough. Get the stop installed. Your life is worth the wait and hour of shop time.

edit: These days if I must fly a Cessna taildragger that doesn't have the stop installed I get a few bolts and a yard of lockwire to secure it in place, then go through the yoga excersise to get into the seat the hard way.

[Colonel Sanders]

Other suggestions welcome

One could simply comply with the repetitive AD
on the Cessna seat rails, but clearly that is not
an option for some.

IIRC there are even el cheapo FAA-PMA replacement
rails available. You don't have to be raped by Cessna
when the holes in your seat rails crack/elongate.

[Shiny Side Up]

One could simply comply with the repetitive AD
on the Cessna seat rails, but clearly that is not
an option for some.

Of note, the aircraft I had an incident in did comply with the AD, both before and after. Seat still came loose. The older model Cessna seat is a bad design. Of note it is possible to get the seat to come back if one applies presure in the right combination, even when the pin is initially fully engaged. The rails themselves aren't the sole part of the problem, and as said, the older model single pin seats are most prone.

[Castorero]

Having wrestled one of those mustangs for 18 yrs, I would agree that there is zero hope of recovery if the seat lets go just after takeoff.

Nuts, bolts, bailing wire and maybe a spot welder would be my prerequisites for getting in the saddle.

Now, do you want to talk about the seats on a Beaver? Not quite the same problem, but often the same result in a deceleration event.

Its very sad to read about these type of accidents that keep recurring.

[pdw]

A simple safety strap may be required to ensure no travel past the 'farthest back' position ... located out of the way under the seat. Like a seat-belt for the seat itself (like the strap on a car seat) but placed out of sight .. just for 'in the event of'

The earlier old style seat rails were probably designed (longeivity-wise anyways) more for 20th-century style pax weights. We've seen the photo lately, an example of the butt-size that is getting into these lightweight seats more often, so maybe that's the whole new problem. You hear of seats actually breaking on some larger aircraft ... so maybe the overall problem is more widespread first imagined.

[GyvAir]

Pun intended?:

widespread

Like a seat-belt for the seat itself

That in fact is exactly what the above posters have been referring to with the secondary seat stop bulletin. For those unfamiliar:

[pdw]

Exactly as described, ... what a coincidence.