Airline AME PayScale
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Re: Airline AME PayScale
The likelyhood of the Encore AME wage coming up in the next year or so is almost certain, and like I said there is a bonus structure Outside of the WJ compensation norms for the start up guys.
As for Pat, guys who talk like that are seldom worth what they think they're worth.
As for Pat, guys who talk like that are seldom worth what they think they're worth.
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Re: Airline AME PayScale
don't get me wrong, i don't think we get paid enough for what we do, but there is a reason that it happens. the customer - you, me, everyone who flies is an @$$hole. think back to the last trip you flew on. did you look for the cheapest flight? bet you didn't look for the expensive flight. my wife found us a flight to florida for $400ish one way (total) for 4 people. great, she booked it. i told her she is the reason i don't get a raise. its the same as buying from Walmart - everytime you do, 1 Canadian or American in a factory just lost their job. if the consumer is offered a $500 fair on ABC airlines or $400 on DEF airlines, which one you think they will pick? and if DEF raises the fair, the consumer will look elsewhere. it sucks.
a lot of $$$ has to come out of that $400/seat on DEF airlines. wages for mechanics, flightcrews, CSR's, baggage handlers, reservation people, etc. and then there is the other overhead like counterspace, parts, offices... you get the idea. don't even get started on fuel costs. $400/ticket from YYZ to FLL is great for the customer, but crap for the airline. i hate to say it, but we customers won't allow the airlines to raise the fares where they should be. we like the low cost carrier. and with the legacy carriers struggling or reinventing themselves (aka rouge) to compete, it ain't going to get any better soon.
its no better for the contracted AMO, when you figure an AMO shop rate is around $70/hr, it doesnt leave much room to survive
if you breakdown the $70/hr
$35/hr for the mechanic
$10/hr for benifits and or government stuff
$10/hr for equipment/overhead (vans/maintenance, office supplies, office rent, etc)
$5/hr for non billible staff (clerks, office admin, accountant)
so a tidy $10 profit margin. now if the AMO wants to raise his rates to $75/hr, there is always someone that will do it for $70. worse yet, the airline will (and they should) get bids from a few AMO's and let the lowest win.
i think our downfall happened when the US dollar tanked. when a CAD was worth about 0.64USD, that was great. we could entice american operators to send their aircraft here $60-70 CAD equalled about 40-45 USD. now it is par.
i am not justifying anything, and i know my numbers are ballpark numbers. i also know that some of the reason we have the wage we have is to "maximize shareholder value".
unfortunately, i can't see this getting any better in the near future either.
obviously this is only my opinion, so its your choice whether you agree or not...
a lot of $$$ has to come out of that $400/seat on DEF airlines. wages for mechanics, flightcrews, CSR's, baggage handlers, reservation people, etc. and then there is the other overhead like counterspace, parts, offices... you get the idea. don't even get started on fuel costs. $400/ticket from YYZ to FLL is great for the customer, but crap for the airline. i hate to say it, but we customers won't allow the airlines to raise the fares where they should be. we like the low cost carrier. and with the legacy carriers struggling or reinventing themselves (aka rouge) to compete, it ain't going to get any better soon.
its no better for the contracted AMO, when you figure an AMO shop rate is around $70/hr, it doesnt leave much room to survive
if you breakdown the $70/hr
$35/hr for the mechanic
$10/hr for benifits and or government stuff
$10/hr for equipment/overhead (vans/maintenance, office supplies, office rent, etc)
$5/hr for non billible staff (clerks, office admin, accountant)
so a tidy $10 profit margin. now if the AMO wants to raise his rates to $75/hr, there is always someone that will do it for $70. worse yet, the airline will (and they should) get bids from a few AMO's and let the lowest win.
i think our downfall happened when the US dollar tanked. when a CAD was worth about 0.64USD, that was great. we could entice american operators to send their aircraft here $60-70 CAD equalled about 40-45 USD. now it is par.
i am not justifying anything, and i know my numbers are ballpark numbers. i also know that some of the reason we have the wage we have is to "maximize shareholder value".
unfortunately, i can't see this getting any better in the near future either.
obviously this is only my opinion, so its your choice whether you agree or not...
Re: Airline AME PayScale
+1 to that.NeverBlue wrote:what a guy eh?Way to whore yourselves out and bring wage expectations even lower, encore dumbasses.
...and their choice to make regardless of what anyone thinks.I don't agree with the wage but its a choice they made.
If it came to a choice between putting food on the table for my wife and kids with a job from Encore or refusing to work for them because it's not the ideal wage, I would certainly take it and not become a martyr on the altar of idealist AME wages. As NeverBlue said, it's their choice to make.
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Re: Airline AME PayScale
I do find it disturbing that someone would denigrate a person for wanting to provide for their family. It may not be the money you want, or think you deserve, but it's better than being unemployed.
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Re: Airline AME PayScale
If it came down to feeding my family, in YYC I would return to construction before settling for an industry-wide embarrassing wage. No night shifts, better pay, but I could tell the guys on site cool airplane stories.Living in Calgary during college I got a job kicking carpet for a percentage of the contract. Not counting inflation, it took me 8 years to make more money in aviation than it did doing grunt carpet work. A college classmate of mine met my contractor and makes WAY more money than I ever will in aviation installing hardwood, M-F, 8-5. If I was unemployed in YYC and looking at encores wage, I would walk away for better money and hours in an unskilled trade, simple. Aviation is not a skilled trade so its an easy transition.You guys keep beating your dicks over being guys that touch airplanes, there's nothing cool in it anymore. So many other industries pay so much better for far less with no education or liability. Companies like encore only exist to reaffirm the industry is a joke, and there is a lineup around the block of people willing to tank the industry because they are too proud to turn a cheek because they spent that much money and time on college and licensing. You can make more money and work better hours with no education than you can with Encore, or countless other operators in Canada. Quit ruining it for everyone. As far as I'm concerned, every single AME hired at Encore should be looking at their shoes and embarrassed when talking with any other AME, anywhere. The starting wage for an AME is what I earned as a fresh license without ACAs 10 years ago. In fact, we pay non ACA'd AMEs $5/hr more on 703/704 machines than Encore does, and also have a profit sharing program and group RRSP but from experience airline guys are best suited as chocks on the ramp anyway, they are box-swappers not legitimate or knowledgeable troubleshooters. Such a progressive industry....
Re: Airline AME PayScale
Big plus one. Its pathetic the obvious has to be explained to them. Apparently all a starving ame can do is accept lower and lower wages just so they can keep working on airplanes. Nobody finds that disturbing or more obviously just stupid?
Im reading this while socializing with some other trades people. They are a bit shocked when they saw what sort of money encore is paying and mechanics actually defending it. Now they are laughing. Pretty embarassing.
Im reading this while socializing with some other trades people. They are a bit shocked when they saw what sort of money encore is paying and mechanics actually defending it. Now they are laughing. Pretty embarassing.
Re: Airline AME PayScale
It's like talking to a wall.
If I had a choice I would not work for Encore Wages alone.
But if I didn't have a choice...I wouldn't give a crap what anyone thought of me taking the job! Ever!
..I mean who do they think they are anyways?
If I had a choice I would not work for Encore Wages alone.
But if I didn't have a choice...I wouldn't give a crap what anyone thought of me taking the job! Ever!
+1I do find it disturbing that someone would denigrate a person for wanting to provide for their family. It may not be the money you want, or think you deserve, but it's better than being unemployed.
..I mean who do they think they are anyways?
Re: Airline AME PayScale
So encore mechs had no choice so thats why they are there?
The point tcas and others make is there is or should be a choice when all you are being offered is shit and that by not doing that they are dragging the rest of the trade down with them. you dont think other companies are watching them and saying "well there finding guys for peanuts lets try the same". The fact that you and others defend them as exercising freedom of personal choice is ludicrous and to me is much more disturbing than richard calling them whores
The point tcas and others make is there is or should be a choice when all you are being offered is shit and that by not doing that they are dragging the rest of the trade down with them. you dont think other companies are watching them and saying "well there finding guys for peanuts lets try the same". The fact that you and others defend them as exercising freedom of personal choice is ludicrous and to me is much more disturbing than richard calling them whores
Re: Airline AME PayScale
...sure...that's what "they're" doing.they are dragging the rest of the trade down with them. you dont think other companies are watching them and saying "well there finding guys for peanuts lets try the same".
If you have S#!t for workers...you have a S#!t company.
Airplanes don't fly if they don't work because the S#!t can't fix them.
...and the little old unemployed AME controls it all!!!
Re: Airline AME PayScale
there is or should be a choice when all you are being offered is shit
...Well BOO HOO HOO!
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Re: Airline AME PayScale
5-10% less than 5 years ago. Covid don’t you know. Hard times and we are all in this together. Never let a good crisis for to waste.
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Re: Airline AME PayScale
I’m getting harassed by fixed wing and helicopter operators alike. People that left during the downturn largely have shifted gears and directed their lives into much greener pastures. Canadas wages are more than stale, they’re embarrassing. I maintain my rate and get what I do when I’m here in Canada because of connections and what I bring to the table. Having said that it’s still always a haggling process each time.
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Re: Airline AME PayScale
Some are slightly up (5-15% depending on desperation) however largely nothing has changed. Be wary of any operator that states there will be “some overtime and weekend work required”. That’s usually an understatement…