Good flight schools

[Needtofly]

I seem to read a lot of posts about how bad some flight schools are. So I want to start a thred on the flight schools you have enjoyed. Maybe why you enjoyed the school or what they had done to help you out.

I will start out.
I really enjoyed my time at Excel Flight Training. As they where always there to help you and will go out of there way to meet your deadline I found. It also had a friendly feeling around the school as well.

Thanks

[Creston]

Harv's Air in Steinbach, Manitoba.

For my PPL, they made me do departure stalls(full power); level stalls till you drop a wing (not just release back pressure at the earliest sign of buffet or stall horn); spins to both sides; have me land on grass; short final has a high tension power line to negotiate and more.

Why, I asked, it is not required for the exam?
"Because we want to make you a safer pilot" they said.

I would love to go back there for twin training one day.

[DonutHole]

It is so sad that Southern Skies is gone. That place was the best flight school in Canada as far as I am concerned

[avinstructor]

A good flight school is important, but equally as important is the instructor. There are some good flight schools with not so great instructors (unfortunately it seems the larger the school, the more not so great instructors there are - maybe a gross generalization, but my experience none the less), and then there are some schools with good instructors that are being hampered by the restrictions of the flight school or CFI.

Talk to the instructors, and pick one who is willing to give you the training you want - but please make sure they have the experience/training themselves to back up their willingness to train you ... They might just be willing to take your money and hope you are naive.

[Masters Off]

For my experiences, mainly in Southern ON:

Brantford Flying Club: The guys have always been good to me, prices, airplanes and decent place to fly in general.

Durham Flight Centre: (Oshawa) Same as brantford, other side of the GTA/Golden Horseshoe. Bit busier place, still treats everyone like an individual and compared to other Toronto based schools, I felt in very good hands.

Cornwall Aviation: Efficient, smooth MIFR work. They may teach a bit more to the test than I prefer, but still definitely know what they're talking about when it comes to IFR. A little out of the way for most folks, but worth the drive. Close to YOW/YMX, allowing adequate IFR training with minimal ground time. Multiple seminoles and redbirds ensures continual training.

Golden Horseshoe Aviation: (Hamilton) A new place I've been to, and John treats every customer with a lot of care. Small, but growing school. Prices are slightly higher than other schools, but quality of machinery and facilities are much higher. The guys at GHA are intent on keeping the high standard in quality.

[slam525i]

Durham Flight Centre: (Oshawa)

I had a BAD experience there, but that could be one particularly poor instructor. If you are thinking of Oshawa, consider Canadian Flight Academy. I rent from CFA and I did my night rating there.

[KLT]

I got my PPL in Okotoks...great people!

[cap41]

Durham Flight Centre: (Oshawa)

I had a BAD experience there, but that could be one particularly poor instructor. If you are thinking of Oshawa, consider Canadian Flight Academy. I rent from CFA and I did my night rating there.

I've had the complete opposite experience. I would never set foot in CFA. I had great experience with all my training at DFC.

[slam525i]

I've had the complete opposite experience.

I'm curious what happened. Trade stories? PM sent.

[Cavok416]

As mentioned above, Choosing a good instructor is much more important than the school

[Jack In The Box]

Harv's Air in Steinbach, Manitoba.

For my PPL, they made me do departure stalls(full power); level stalls till you drop a wing (not just release back pressure at the earliest sign of buffet or stall horn); spins to both sides; have me land on grass; short final has a high tension power line to negotiate and more.

Why, I asked, it is not required for the exam?
"Because we want to make you a safer pilot" they said.[/]b

I would love to go back there for twin training one day.

Lol, trust me, that's not why.

(I'll give you a hint $$$$$$$$$).

[Creston]

Harv's Air in Steinbach, Manitoba.

For my PPL, they made me do departure stalls(full power); level stalls till you drop a wing (not just release back pressure at the earliest sign of buffet or stall horn); spins to both sides; have me land on grass; short final has a high tension power line to negotiate and more.

Why, I asked, it is not required for the exam?
"Because we want to make you a safer pilot" they said.[/]b

I would love to go back there for twin training one day.

Lol, trust me, that's not why.

(I'll give you a hint $$$$$$$$$).

I am not sure I "l trust you on this one. I met the owner and his wife (?Betty)back in 2003. Upright people.
Funny that you say: all about dollars, as after the first day of instruction the flight planning desk people called me in and offered that I rent a C 150 (quite a bit cheaper) for my further training. So I did.
Alas. One hour in that chicken coop was too much for a 6'5" frame and I reverted back to the C-172.
If indeed their culture has changed since then, sad to hear that.

[Jack In The Box]

Harv's Air in Steinbach, Manitoba.

For my PPL, they made me do departure stalls(full power); level stalls till you drop a wing (not just release back pressure at the earliest sign of buffet or stall horn); spins to both sides; have me land on grass; short final has a high tension power line to negotiate and more.

Why, I asked, it is not required for the exam?
"Because we want to make you a safer pilot" they said.[/]b

I would love to go back there for twin training one day.

Lol, trust me, that's not why.

(I'll give you a hint $$$$$$$$$).

I am not sure I "l trust you on this one. I met the owner and his wife (?Betty)back in 2003. Upright people.
Funny that you say: all about dollars, as after the first day of instruction the flight planning desk people called me in and offered that I rent a C 150 (quite a bit cheaper) for my further training. So I did.
Alas. One hour in that chicken coop was too much for a 6'5" frame and I reverted back to the C-172.
If indeed their culture has changed since then, sad to hear that.

Well it's all about experience, right? Im Just sharing mine.
I used to rent from them. Guy made me do a 1.5 hour check out with 6+ circuits, forced approaches, stalls, steep turns, etc. to show I could fly a 152.
Meanwhile, across the street, where I eventually went when I heard about the no-bs policy, I got a 0.5 hour checkout with 3 circuits. Needless to say, my harvs renting days were over.

Funny thing, both instructors later became my FOs later on in life...lol

Anyway, just my experience. Probably more isolated then not (many people that I know have liked harvs), but my 0.02.

[Creston]

I used to rent from them. Guy made me do a 1.5 hour check out with 6+ circuits, forced approaches, stalls, steep turns, etc. to show I could fly a 152.
Meanwhile, across the street, where I eventually went when I heard about the no-bs policy, I got a 0.5 hour checkout with 3 circuits.

It is because that first guy got you up to speed, so you could pass the second check out with flying colors.

[Jack In The Box]

I used to rent from them. Guy made me do a 1.5 hour check out with 6+ circuits, forced approaches, stalls, steep turns, etc. to show I could fly a 152.
Meanwhile, across the street, where I eventually went when I heard about the no-bs policy, I got a 0.5 hour checkout with 3 circuits.

It is because that first guy got you up to speed, so you could pass the second check out with flying colors.

Lol all I'm saying is, there is a reason you got "extra" training. And the primary reason, based on the company culture as observed by me, is likely not for your benefit (though it does benefit you in the long run). I recognize a money gouge when I see one.

[Jack In The Box]

I used to rent from them. Guy made me do a 1.5 hour check out with 6+ circuits, forced approaches, stalls, steep turns, etc. to show I could fly a 152.
Meanwhile, across the street, where I eventually went when I heard about the no-bs policy, I got a 0.5 hour checkout with 3 circuits.

It is because that first guy got you up to speed, so you could pass the second check out with flying colors.

Lol all I'm saying is, there is a reason you got "extra" training. And the primary reason, based on the company culture as observed by me, is likely not for your benefit (though it does benefit you in the long run). I recognize a money gouge when I see one.

[adampenner]

Hello,

I'm very sorry you feel that we are just in it for the money. Obviously we gave you that impression someplace and it really bothers me. I'm very sorry. We've been around for 40 years this summer. With the same owner. It's not our intention to gouge anybody.

We feel a big responsibility. Mistakes and accidents are costly both to us, the pilot/renter, and the industry. Renter pilots come to us with wildly varying levels of currency and proficiency. The instructors are told to use their judgement. If the renter pilot leaves a good impression, has flown recently in similar types/terrain, and performs well, then the checkout is short. Often just 3 circuits. If the instructor feels otherwise then we want them to do more exercises to improve the skill level of the renter pilot.

I'd be happy to discuss this with you adam@harvsair.com if you have any concerns or questions.

Adam

[Invertago]

Selkirk has been around for a long time and is well established, experienced instructors all have their ATPLs and industry experience. As an added bonus the students get unlimited sim time at no additional cost (usually they log 200hrs of sim time over the 2 year program) so it gives them a good edge. Also, graduated students are welcome to come back and use the sims free of charge. For the past several years Jazz and Air Sprint have hired guys right out of the graduating class, most of the students have jobs lined up before they graduate. Plus learning in the mountains is a good experience. Also, since all the instructors work for the college, they there is no extra cost for dual flights, no charge for ground briefing or flight test fees. Its a good system.

[Colonel Sanders]

You're probably going to be surprised at what my advice
is, looking for a flight school.

Most people look for a Big Shiny Building and Shiny New
Airplanes. They are probably the least important factors,
and in fact, a school with that is going to be the most
expensive.

Biggest factor is the individual flight instructor, that you
are going to be in that cramped, noisy cockpit with. He
is the pointy end of the sword. If he does a good job,
you will do well. If he does not do a good job, well ...

You do not have to be pals. But he does have to know
what he is doing, and he needs to be able to transfer
that skill and knowledge to you. If you can find someone
like that, and in addition he has a sense of humour, you
have struck gold. Rod Machado is the poster child for this.

Next factor: good VFR wx, most of the time. I am astounded
at how many flight schools are located in really challenging
places with respect to the weather. Delays and safety are
problems caused by a lot of bad wx, during primary flight
training.

Less important: shiny new airplanes. You don't want acres
of coloured glass. Learn to fly on steam gauges, so that you
can fly one after your PPL. Glass is easy.

What you do want is good maintenance, but since you have
no way of telling that, well, good luck.

Summary:
- good instructor
- good weather
- good maintenance

is what makes a "good" flight school. To paraphrase Von Richthofen
(who actually killed my great-uncle), all else is rubbish.

[Boratt]

I've been to several flight schools over the years (in several countries across the globe).
Harv's Air is at the top if my list. Quality training and personalized instruction is definitely one of their strong points.
What colonel sanders said is very true, though. You can be at the best flight school in the world, yet have a crappy instructor and/or bad maintenance and end up with poor training.
Harv's doesn't have the shiny exterior or the shiny planes, but you get quality instruction and properly maintained airplanes.
Some people like to bash on maintenance at flight schools, but just wait until you're flying for some 702/703 operator in the bush! You'll look back on the flight training planes and change yor mind in a jiffy.
OK, I'll stop before I change the thread bearing here....

[Cessna driver]

Centennial Flight Center
Great school, CFI is very helpful when it comes to student loans etc etc. Fleet older but instruction was great (Imo). No glass aircraft all steam.

Edmonton Flying Club
Another great school, good group of instructors working there. Nice mix in the fleet, steam gauges for the basic trainers, glass if you want it later. Maintenance is great, their AME's are a great help if you have any questions. If you dont understand how something works, generally there is enough spare parts around they will grab it and show you the works. It is more of a "club" atmosphere and theres atleast 1 event a month where everyone gets to just hang out.

[PilotDAR]

To answer the original question: Lake Country Airways in Orillia, at Lake St. John Airport, excellent attitude, very experienced instructors, and personal service.

But to the more troublesome issue I read... Someone was unhappy when an aircraft rental company, who is also a flying school asked for a demonstration of skill for more that a few circuits for a check out.

What did they got to rent the plane for? To fly, I presume... So they're getting a checkout, they're flying right? If their skill set and recent experience is such that they don't need refreshers of slow flight and stalls, the check pilot is likely to pick up on that pretty quickly, and send them on their way happily.

If they're unwilling to demonstrate those aspects of their skill, in an appropriate training environment, to the person who is about to sign them out in the aircraft, I, as that person would see a problem. "Why does this pilot NOT want to practice and demonstrate these skills?"

An extra half hour hour of airwork is not going to kill anyone, and if that breaks the bank, that too is worrisome. If they're so good that they don't need it, it'll be quick and painless. I suggest it is wise to have a rental budget allocated to "'training and currency" costs, an hour of dual every couple of months would be fair. A through checkout comes out of that budget.

Sending a message that you resist a skills demonstration sends a poor message in a renter relationship. A very long time ago, during my rental days, I was eventually offered a little blue card, which once presented by me at the time of a rental, was my evidence that I was current - completely on my honour, and my maintaining my currency and skills on my own. When someone offers you such a card, you'll be very proud. Before that time, take the opportunity to practice your skills wherever you can! Everyone will be the happier for it!

[SJD519]

I would like to say that so far I am really enjoying Owen Sound Flight Services (but only have 7 hrs logged so far!). They were in Owen Sound, then off to Wiarton when there was grumblings of CYOS closing, but have recently returned.

Both Dan and Dave are easy going and experienced pilots who can explain things well in the air and on the ground, and have good senses of humour too.

They constantly seek out new tools to train the students, and just make ground school more enjoyable.... ok, as enjoyable as ground school can be

I personally would recommend them.

[TheStig]

Good post Colonel, this part is key.

Biggest factor is the individual flight instructor, that you
are going to be in that cramped, noisy cockpit with. He
is the pointy end of the sword. If he does a good job,
you will do well. If he does not do a good job, well ...

You do not have to be pals. But he does have to know
what he is doing, and he needs to be able to transfer
that skill and knowledge to you. If you can find someone
like that, and in addition he has a sense of humour, you
have struck gold. Rod Machado is the poster child for this.

As shown here by various posters, two people can have very different impressions of the same school. Soliciting some info online is great, but use it to create a shortlist of schools that interest you. Not all personalities 'click', it might not be either persons fault, it's just the way things seem to work. Learning to fly should be enjoyable (albeit slightly stressful at times). Go and do a couple of fam flights and see which flight school you feel will be the best fit for you.

[Shiny Side Up]

As shown here by various posters, two people can have very different impressions of the same school. Soliciting some info online is great, but use it to create a shortlist of schools that interest you. Not all personalities 'click', it might not be either persons fault, it's just the way things seem to work. Learning to fly should be enjoyable (albeit slightly stressful at times). Go and do a couple of fam flights and see which flight school you feel will be the best fit for you.

Also good advice when using the internet to help shop for a school or an instructor. Instructors can be saints or sinners (or both) depending on who you talk to. Really have to ask yourself what you want out of your flight training that's going to make you happy.