I went to NAIT and completed the AME-E license course in April 2012. Now, when I got in to the course, keep in mind I honestly had no intentions of pursuing the career, but rather a "resume builder", as I was also working on my flight instructor rating while in school. Now that school is done, I'm done my Instructor rating, and got a job with a FTU as an instructor. While in the interview, the CFI continued to state that the compnay has their own AMO, and whether or not I would also be interested in working in the shop on my down time on some rainy days. They have 2 other guys in the shop, all of which hate even looking at wiring diagrams. I will be the first to admit, I am very rusty on a few things(mainly legalities and paper work kind of stuff), but my general workmanship is pretty good. I can still read wiring diagrams, I can still trouble shoot faults, repairs, etc etc, just generally from doing some side projects at home.
My question to you folks is, where do I even begin? I still have all my text books from school, and am in the process of tracking down all the notes and stuff that were online throughout the 2 years. I know I have a few exams to write, and intend on hitting the books once I track down those notes again. But should the CFI agree to having me in the shop, can I just suit up, tool box in hand, and do some jobs while under the supervision of the PRM? Again, since I didn't intend on actually working as an AME, I don't even have a log book....I'm just very curious as to where I can even begin should the CFI agree to handing me a wrench.
Thanks a bunch
Been out of school for a year....
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
Re: Been out of school for a year....
anyone can work on ac and radios, and what has the CFI got to do with it? Is he the one doing the maint release back to service and sign the log book? That's the person you need to talk to.
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nine sixteenths
- Rank 3
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- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:49 am
Re: Been out of school for a year....
If I were the DoM I would probably not accept you to work under me if you were not going to work close to full time. For one thing, there is a training (human factors and whatever else is in the MPM for initial training) that would need to be provided. If you are only going to tinker once in a while it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to not only train you, but now keep record of your training and currency.
A second reason is that if you are only going to work in maintenance once in a while you would never really develope useful skills and speed with those skills to be an asset around the hangar. It would be no different than if you only flew once in a while: you won't benefit from it, and neither will others around you. You would potentially be a hazard depending on whether you actually retain anything and how much you end up working on.
The other thing is if you do pick up a wrench while flying, watch your duty days! It can burn you, I have seen it happen to another pilot/AME, it's not good to see.
My advice is to stuck with either flying or wrenching until you are good at it, not just a green apprentice or low time pilot. Once you have one of these in the bag, then if you are sill interested try the other.
Good luck with whichever you choose!
9/16
A second reason is that if you are only going to work in maintenance once in a while you would never really develope useful skills and speed with those skills to be an asset around the hangar. It would be no different than if you only flew once in a while: you won't benefit from it, and neither will others around you. You would potentially be a hazard depending on whether you actually retain anything and how much you end up working on.
The other thing is if you do pick up a wrench while flying, watch your duty days! It can burn you, I have seen it happen to another pilot/AME, it's not good to see.
My advice is to stuck with either flying or wrenching until you are good at it, not just a green apprentice or low time pilot. Once you have one of these in the bag, then if you are sill interested try the other.
Good luck with whichever you choose!
9/16
Re: Been out of school for a year....
The only reason why the CFI is even remotely involved in the conversation is because my primary job is going to be a flight instructor. The only time I will be in the hangar would be on days I'm weathered out, bored, or a student cancels, really.....I've already spoken with the PRM, he's agreed to letting me hop in to the shop and help out with an intermittent strobe light one of the planes have, and "we will go from there". However, seeing as the CFI is my "current" boss, and there is a potential for a conflict of interest working the 2 jobs, I only thought it would be appropriate to have him involved in the conversation. Am I wrong in assuming the CFI should also be involved?longjon wrote:anyone can work on ac and radios, and what has the CFI got to do with it? Is he the one doing the maint release back to service and sign the log book? That's the person you need to talk to.
Re: Been out of school for a year....
The other interesting thing about working on ac part of the time with this company is that the Chief Pilot(who is responsible for the 702/703 side of the company) also works in and out of the hangar....he only works on the planes as an M1 on his down time as well, with the other 2 dedicated FT guys working on the rest. The other thing that I think that is important to note is again, I don't intend on continuing on to complete the AME license unless I get enough experience and the situation calls for it....virtually hacking away at the requirements on a job by job basis. The FT guys, as I'm sure other M guys would feel the same, would rather be working on other things other than electrical, so they're just looking for someone to pick up the stuff they don't have any desire to work on. I'm mainly considering doing this kind of thing simply because of my constant want to be in, on, or around the airport. Being as the aviation industry is, when I can't get paid when I'm not flying, I want to find some other alternative to make some cash that's virtually unhindered by weather.....A fail-safe if you will.nine sixteenths wrote:If I were the DoM I would probably not accept you to work under me if you were not going to work close to full time. For one thing, there is a training (human factors and whatever else is in the MPM for initial training) that would need to be provided. If you are only going to tinker once in a while it wouldn't be worth the time and effort to not only train you, but now keep record of your training and currency.
A second reason is that if you are only going to work in maintenance once in a while you would never really develope useful skills and speed with those skills to be an asset around the hangar. It would be no different than if you only flew once in a while: you won't benefit from it, and neither will others around you. You would potentially be a hazard depending on whether you actually retain anything and how much you end up working on.
The other thing is if you do pick up a wrench while flying, watch your duty days! It can burn you, I have seen it happen to another pilot/AME, it's not good to see.
My advice is to stuck with either flying or wrenching until you are good at it, not just a green apprentice or low time pilot. Once you have one of these in the bag, then if you are sill interested try the other.
Good luck with whichever you choose!
9/16
While I defiantly see the hazard of duty days, human factors, etc etc...as far as I'm concerned, I think the PRM is aware of my intentions, and still feels interested in seeing what I can offer. The FTU has made it very clear that while instructing doesn't follow the same rules in terms of duty days on a 702/703 operation, they still monitor the so called "duty hours" an instructor would incur over a given day, and react accordingly. Given that information, I'm not particularly overly concerned about risking over-working. Based on all of this information, the CFI seemed very interested in also getting me into the shop and essentially doing as the CP is doing, and it's to my understanding he is aware of the additional costs/time it would take to get me working on some planes.
Since the CP will be doing virtually the same thing that I will be, I think there is someone that I may be able to turn to for advice on how to properly manage the 2 jobs. But what I'm looking for is simply.....what do you folks think would be a more appropriate method of starting up? Hit the books right now, start studying for the written exams? Talk to the PRM, get started on some company training?
Re: Been out of school for a year....
It sounds like you’re in a pretty flexible working environment, so if you are flexible too and don’t abuse the situation, it could work to your and your employer’s advantage. Watch the lines between your instructing duties and your hangar time.
When you’re in the hangar, remember that you’re the new guy with near zero experience. If you happen to know something about a system or a concept that the other mechanics don’t, don’t be too proud of it… they know a lot about a lot of other things that you don’t, of course. Be diplomatic: share your skills and knowledge with them and they will share theirs with you.
You do sound like you’re not sure if you want to wrench or fly, but that’s fine; there’s no law on when you need to decide on your career path for the rest of your natural life. At some point you’ll likely be best off to concentrate on one or the other, but for now, if you have the opportunity to dabble at both, I say go for it. Hands on experience from the other side of the flying/maintenance fence is beneficial regardless which side you settle on.
As far as how to start, I would say just get in there and fix that strobe system. Talk to the PRM first and make sure you’re covered as far as basic training required to be working in the hangar. Human factors, MCM training and WHIMIS and maybe some basic safety procedure training may be all you need. Not that big a deal in the whole scheme of things.
I wouldn’t even worry about exams at this point, as you have an entire apprenticeship to complete before they are relevant. Right now, I’d study up on what you think you’re going to be working on in the hangar in the immediate future and build from there.
If that’s a Whelan strobe you’ll be working on, you’re going to want this:
http://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/Catal ... Manual.pdf
Good luck!
When you’re in the hangar, remember that you’re the new guy with near zero experience. If you happen to know something about a system or a concept that the other mechanics don’t, don’t be too proud of it… they know a lot about a lot of other things that you don’t, of course. Be diplomatic: share your skills and knowledge with them and they will share theirs with you.
You do sound like you’re not sure if you want to wrench or fly, but that’s fine; there’s no law on when you need to decide on your career path for the rest of your natural life. At some point you’ll likely be best off to concentrate on one or the other, but for now, if you have the opportunity to dabble at both, I say go for it. Hands on experience from the other side of the flying/maintenance fence is beneficial regardless which side you settle on.
As far as how to start, I would say just get in there and fix that strobe system. Talk to the PRM first and make sure you’re covered as far as basic training required to be working in the hangar. Human factors, MCM training and WHIMIS and maybe some basic safety procedure training may be all you need. Not that big a deal in the whole scheme of things.
I wouldn’t even worry about exams at this point, as you have an entire apprenticeship to complete before they are relevant. Right now, I’d study up on what you think you’re going to be working on in the hangar in the immediate future and build from there.
If that’s a Whelan strobe you’ll be working on, you’re going to want this:
http://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/Catal ... Manual.pdf
Good luck!
Re: Been out of school for a year....
Thanks for the reply! The link will definitely come in handy in the tool box of paperwork i've collected so far. As a side note, while I still have not been into the club over the last couple weeks because of a vacation I took, the PRM virtually had the thing figured out. I haven't even touched a plane since the discussion. He figures it might be related to a capacitor that's simply not holding charge any more, or something along the lines of that.
WRT to sounding like I don't really know which direction I want to go, actually flying the planes is ultimately what I want to be doing. While flying the things is really where my passion is, I'm not completely dismissing the idea of wrenching. Virtually I got my rocks off anything to do with having me climb in or around a plane, and while I see the potential hazard of intermittently working in the hangar, I feel the flexibility of the flying club will really be able to benefit me, as well as taking some of the work load off the other guys..they're pretty slammed as it is. Plus if I can't fly, and I'm already at the airport, why not fill in the income gap with a little work installing a new radio or something?
I'm a brand new class 4 instructor with only about 350 hrs in the log book, and obviously even more green on the maintenance side. If there's one thing i've learned in the past, its that while I may know more about a particular topic than someone else, there's always the potential that the person might know something minor I didn't know, and really collectively come together to give me a much better overall perspective/understanding of the topic. So when actively flying the planes, or wrenching them apart, I would never boast about knowing more than another.
Finally, regarding where to start, that's exactly what I was looking for. While the NAIT program actually offered some very in depth Human Factor's Training, WHIMIS, etc, I think it would be nice to just refresh some of that boring stuff. Any more input on expectations of a new snot nosed apprentice, what to expect when in the barn, recommended readings, etc, I would still like to hear from you all. It seems to me this side of the forum's is a much different breed to demographic than the say "Flight instruction" forums
WRT to sounding like I don't really know which direction I want to go, actually flying the planes is ultimately what I want to be doing. While flying the things is really where my passion is, I'm not completely dismissing the idea of wrenching. Virtually I got my rocks off anything to do with having me climb in or around a plane, and while I see the potential hazard of intermittently working in the hangar, I feel the flexibility of the flying club will really be able to benefit me, as well as taking some of the work load off the other guys..they're pretty slammed as it is. Plus if I can't fly, and I'm already at the airport, why not fill in the income gap with a little work installing a new radio or something?
I'm a brand new class 4 instructor with only about 350 hrs in the log book, and obviously even more green on the maintenance side. If there's one thing i've learned in the past, its that while I may know more about a particular topic than someone else, there's always the potential that the person might know something minor I didn't know, and really collectively come together to give me a much better overall perspective/understanding of the topic. So when actively flying the planes, or wrenching them apart, I would never boast about knowing more than another.
Finally, regarding where to start, that's exactly what I was looking for. While the NAIT program actually offered some very in depth Human Factor's Training, WHIMIS, etc, I think it would be nice to just refresh some of that boring stuff. Any more input on expectations of a new snot nosed apprentice, what to expect when in the barn, recommended readings, etc, I would still like to hear from you all. It seems to me this side of the forum's is a much different breed to demographic than the say "Flight instruction" forums
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helicopterray
- Rank 4
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:59 pm
Re: Been out of school for a year....
If you're 'helping out' in the shop and have no intention of being a licensed AME, and someone else is willing to sign out the work you do, go for it. There's nothing complicated with this arrangement.
