Please fly Porter

[Dh8Classic]

Had a Zed fare ticket the other day out of YYZ on AC and guess what. They have every flight overbooked so it is not too likely that I will make my flight. Plus there are standby's(other zed's and employees). Is AC likely to put a bigger plane on these overbooked flights? Not likely.

So I decide that I better buy a ticket so I can make a flight by checking in early. Ac's fee......350 dollars approximately. WJ.......300.

So I check Porter. Same day ticket price including tax......157 dollars. Even with a 75 dollar dropoff fee, for the car rental, it is a better deal. Plus free internet, coffee and snacks while you wait. Plus the good feeling I had that I wasn't going to let myself be gouged even if it took a bit longer. Nice walk through the downtown area and the ferry ride is enjoyable once in a while. Underground walkway will open next year.

Please folks....fly Porter whenever you can. AC and WJ are just a big ripoff and it will get worse if Porter disappears. By the way, only two empty seats on Porter, but it was a holiday.

Nice to see that AC had only one flight out of the island. Of course that is the way I suspect they would eventually have it again in the future if Porter was bankrupted if AC got more flights for the short term. Just like what happened with City Express.

[lostaviator]

You think airlines should pay money for bigger/more equipment on a route to satisfy people paying $30..... This is why our industry is sinking. Even the people who work in it are looking for the cheapest way out.

[whiteguy]

So AC is good enough to use when you can get on with your Zed fare? Boo fricken hoo! Do everyone a favor and book Porter all the time!

[teacher]

You think airlines should pay money for bigger/more equipment on a route to satisfy people paying $30..... This is why our industry is sinking. Even the people who work in it are looking for the cheapest way out.

+1

[Dh8Classic]

So AC is good enough to use when you can get on with your Zed fare? Boo fricken hoo! Do everyone a favor and book Porter all the time!

Whether I think they are good enough to use with Zed fares or not is irrelevant to the subject(obviously you haven't figured that out).

The heart of the matter is.....Porter has much better prices, even when the flight is nearly full. So everyone will be doing themselves a favour by helping keep this wonderful option around.

Of course.......I have my Zed fare flight booked for next week on AC(and reciprocal jumpseat is nice too) but when it comes to regular fare travel for the average Joe........

FLY PORTER

[Dh8Classic]

You think airlines should pay money for bigger/more equipment on a route to satisfy people paying $30..... This is why our industry is sinking. Even the people who work in it are looking for the cheapest way out.

There is a significant difference between making a decent profit and gouging. AC/WJ=gouging.

FLY PORTER

(Of course those benefitting from the gouge may be OK with it as seen on this thread)

FLY PORTER

[Beefitarian]

I don't see the need to tell people this. Many would knock their own mom over then step on her running to save $50 or more.

[lostaviator]

Can you provide me with your name and phone number? I'd love to keep it handy so I can give you a call in 5 years and say "you still wish airfares were cheaper?".

Somewhere along the way the world began to think access to cheap airfare was a part of our rights and freedoms. The airline industry accommodated that belief and here we are.

[TheStig]

There is a significant difference between making a decent profit and gouging. AC/WJ=gouging.

You think Air Canada makes a decent profit? Good on you for shopping around and finding a better fare, that's the way airline pricing works. Do you not think Porter is interested in filling their airplanes with the highest yield possible?

The heart of the matter is.....Porter has much better prices, even when the flight is nearly full.

Based on the huge market study you've completed? Please tell me your sample size is greater than this once time you've book a confirmed seat. Porter provides great niche product with good service, but there is a reason AC/WJ were charging higher fares.

[whiteguy]

So AC is good enough to use when you can get on with your Zed fare? Boo fricken hoo! Do everyone a favor and book Porter all the time!

Whether I think they are good enough to use with Zed fares or not is irrelevant to the subject(obviously you haven't figured that out).

The heart of the matter is.....Porter has much better prices, even when the flight is nearly full. So everyone will be doing themselves a favour by helping keep this wonderful option around.

Of course.......I have my Zed fare flight booked for next week on AC(and reciprocal jumpseat is nice too) but when it comes to regular fare travel for the average Joe........

FLY PORTER

If its irrelevant to the subject then why bring it up? Like it was said before AC is not going to upgauge a flight because employees or Zeds can't get on. I wonder how much Porter would be charging if they were full?

[CID]

Dh8Classic, you say that you were flying out of YYZ. Where were you going? It's tough to put context on the situation without knowing all the details.

As most of us are aware, airfare generally increases as the aircraft fills up and as the departure date approaches. Most of the airlines out there provide opportunities for savings for passengers if they book ahead of time.

So stating that airfare on an already overbooked AC or WJ flight is high compared to a Porter flight that isn't even full is apples and oranges. AC and WJ and Porter for that matter are just responding to supply and demand.

I certainly am not panning Porter nor am I supporting AC or WJ. Each of those companies have their foibles and advantages. I tend to book whichever airline can get me where I'm going at a reasonable price.

I'm in Calgary today and I'm travelling to Toronto tomorrow. I booked my flight about 2 hours ago and it cost $447 on Air Canada. WJ was about the same price. That is an absolute bargain considering the technology and logistics involved. If I was to drive, not only would it cost me a couple of hundred bucks in fuel, it would take me about 5 days.

Bitching about general fares from the perspective of trying to take advantage of Z fares is ridiculous.

[Dh8Classic]

As stated in the initial post, the flight was almost completely full. About 2 or three empty seats. The route of course doesn't matter. It was from point a to point B.

And of course the Zed fare doesn't matter. This post is for people who don't get Zed's which is for most people. I can erase all references to the Zed if it really does cause that much confusion about the subject.

[flyincanuck]

Very well said (CID).

[CID]

Well...it does in a way. Try to understand this. If a flight is completely booked, there are no Z fare seats available and only expensive fares will be accepted for "overbooked" seats.

If there are a few seats available on a 70 passenger airplane there is a very good chance they will not be expensive. Airlines tend to try to size aircraft to the route but they certainly don't attempt to have several empty seats available at all times.

In the old days when AC and Canadian were trying to destroy each other, there were plenty of empty seats on each flight as each tried to match each other with frequency on popular routes. Not exactly a profitable or sustainable situation as was proven as one one obliterated and the other languished in bankruptcy for awhile.

So....without knowing the destination and what Porter would have charged you if they were full, it's difficult to weigh in. You make a claim that Porter is absolutely the best without providing vital details and using a single anecdote as proof. Sorry. It just doesn't add up.

[Dh8Classic]

Well...it does in a way. Try to understand this. If a flight is completely booked, there are no Z fare seats available and only expensive fares will be accepted for "overbooked" seats.

If there are a few seats available on a 70 passenger airplane there is a very good chance they will not be expensive. Airlines tend to try to size aircraft to the route but they certainly don't attempt to have several empty seats available at all times.

In the old days when AC and Canadian were trying to destroy each other, there were plenty of empty seats on each flight as each tried to match each other with frequency on popular routes. Not exactly a profitable or sustainable situation as was proven as one one obliterated and the other languished in bankruptcy for awhile.

So....without knowing the destination and what Porter would have charged you if they were full, it's difficult to weigh in. You make a claim that Porter is absolutely the best without providing vital details and using a single anecdote as proof. Sorry. It just doesn't add up.

Interesting how the Zed fare red herring can cause so much confusion. I can see why it doesn't add up for you.

But it added up for me (or down should we say). AC overbooks on their little E175 that they put on for multiple overbooked flights on that route on that holiday day(I know, there were no spare 190's available as a substitution some will say) while nearly full Porter gave me a deal at half the price.

And they probably don't overbook like some other carriers(to be confirmed).

[fallex]

Remember when Jetsgo charged $1 airfares? Worked great for them!

[BE20 Driver]

You think airlines should pay money for bigger/more equipment on a route to satisfy people paying $30..... This is why our industry is sinking. Even the people who work in it are looking for the cheapest way out.

+1

Teacher et al., you know I love you man but I just don't get your logic on this one.

Z fares aside, you're suggesting that he, and the general public, should buy the higher priced seat because it benefits all of us involved; pilots, mechanics and FA's. You seem to be implying that Porter is not making a sufficient profit at $160 while AC and WS are north of the $300 price point. So can I safely infer that AC and WS both pay their employees a much higher salary since they're clearly more profitable? I would also have to assume that Porter employees are under paid compared to the market because their fares are cheaper.

[Realitychex]

Had a Zed fare ticket the other day out of YYZ on AC and guess what. They have every flight overbooked so it is not too likely that I will make my flight. Plus there are standby's(other zed's and employees). Is AC likely to put a bigger plane on these overbooked flights? Not likely.

So I decide that I better buy a ticket so I can make a flight by checking in early. Ac's fee......350 dollars approximately. WJ.......300.

So I check Porter. Same day ticket price including tax......157 dollars. Even with a 75 dollar dropoff fee, for the car rental, it is a better deal. Plus free internet, coffee and snacks while you wait. Plus the good feeling I had that I wasn't going to let myself be gouged even if it took a bit longer. Nice walk through the downtown area and the ferry ride is enjoyable once in a while. Underground walkway will open next year.

Please folks....fly Porter whenever you can. AC and WJ are just a big ripoff and it will get worse if Porter disappears. By the way, only two empty seats on Porter, but it was a holiday.

Nice to see that AC had only one flight out of the island. Of course that is the way I suspect they would eventually have it again in the future if Porter was bankrupted if AC got more flights for the short term. Just like what happened with City Express.

How many seats do you think would be left the day before departure if airlines sold them all in advance at the lowest fare?

[teacher]

The Walmartisation of flying is why the airline industry is in the state that it is. Everyone tries to be cheaper than the other to the point of near bankruptcy or in many cases, into bankruptcy. It hasn't worked out so well for those that work in the airline business. For that matter, it hasn't worked out well for those in the manufacturing and I.T. business either.

I simple look at airfares over the decades will answer all your questions. Airfares continue to go down as the cost of doing business continues to go up. From a business stand point that makes no sense.

Porter also has a much different cost structure than AC. 1 aircraft type, lower pay scales, less benefits, perdiems and no pension, charging the competition for fuel and terminal use (very smart in my opinion) and the list goes on. However!! Their planes are on average about 20% less full. Lower prices to fill them up makes sense from a business perspective. This whole discussion has little to do with which airline is better and more to do with which airline has empty seats that they're trying to fill.

[checkremarks]

DH8Classic, be grateful in the first place you have zed fare tickets. I'm so tired of people like you complaining that there's no more seats left on first class from Beijing to toronto.

Comparing your AC outfit to Porter seems real redicoulas especially when they are completely different operations. I hope that you don't feel entitled to those passes like your some showboat captain.

The problem is society is everyone wants everything for free. No body wants to pay for anything and expect the same value of service becuase the mentality is the next person will cover most of the cost. "Ya lets all race to the bottom and see who can pay less going from yyz to LHR". Maybe its time you work some over time like the rest of us to purchase a confirmed ticket on your holiday.

[dashx]

Oy vey!

Is it your turn to stir the pot?

Classic. Just Classic.....

[Dh8Classic]

Geez, I think I touched some nerves. All these people upset that I took the lowest fare and that I was not happy with the higher fares.

Gee, I wonder if they ever shop for the lower price when it comes to spending money outside aviation. Bet they never negotiated over a car price or get their milk at the lower price...yeah right.

Anyways, just rented a car on expedia. Budget had the best prices at 33.00 for a midsize while several others were over 100 dollars for the exact same thing.

Do I need to say what city I rented in for one poster to understand. Am I running over my mother to get this cheaper rate. Should I do all the other car rental agencies a favour and stick with Budget. Is there walmartisation of the rental car industry. Is it a race to the bottom. Should I work overtime and get the 100 dollar a day car.

I better not mention a ZED fare equivalent that I get for car rentals. If I did on the car employee forum, they might go off on a tangent.

You guys are hilarious. You know as well as I do that you would have taken the 33 dollar a day car from Budget rather than the 100 dollar a day rental from their same service competitors. But you expect others to pay the higher fares for the industry you work in, at least if you are at one of the high fare companies.

[CID]

This is getting silly. My point is getting lost in the haze. I just (right now) checked online for fares between YTZ and YUL on Porter and Air Canada for tomorrow. Air Canada's lowest fare is $311 and Porters is....surprise....also $311. Change it to YYZ instead of YTZ and it's almost the same price for Air Canada but Porter doesn't offer the service.

A single anecdote doesn't tell the whole story. Yes, consumers should look for the service they want at the lowest price but making the wholesale statement that AC and WJ are crooks compared to Porter on a single incident is ludicrous.

With respect to car rental, the lowest price isn't always the best. I tend to stick to Avis these days because of the product, the price and the convenience. Thrifty is cheap but you get what you pay for. In some cases Thrifty is the only off-site rental which makes it inconvenient as hell.

Budget has not been cheap historically but they're prices have come down a bit since they started sharing facilities with Avis. Some Budget locations were recently forced to reduce their prices drastically this spring because bad press was scaring business away. The YVR Budget in particular who were running insurance scams.

Again, one anecdote, one story, one incident doesn't make a convincing argument.

[Dh8Classic]

I guess Porter isn't always cheaper. But it sure was on that one day. Not sure for the reason.

But please don't tell me that you would have stuck with AVIS at just over 100 dollars instead of Budget at 33.

I guess the convincing argument is this......which is what I originally implied. The more carriers, the better, whether it is car rental or airplane. We could easily end up with just two major airlines out of Toronto which would not be good for the average customer. Sometimes there are sales. AC and WJ are not going anywhere in the long run but Porter could fold if the big boys had their way.


So FLY PORTER

[brownbear]

Air Canada loves to over SELL flights. They don't match the need with the right capacity. They like to run smaller equipment just to ensure they are 100 % full. This isn't about having capacity for zed or standbys, they just have a profit margin that means they need to be 100% full or they don't make any money. I don't think they gouge, they run so tight there isn't anything extra. In fact having flight benefits with AC is not really a benefit. My experience was it is a waste of time.

Unless you want to live in a socialist country you can stop blaming the consumer for aviation's problems. Of course we look for the cheapest ticket its what we do for a service. We save our money to buy goods, not services. This is human nature.

As your highly glamorous aviation career salary comes down be thankful TV's, computers, meat and plane tickets get cheaper every day. Oh yah and jeans are pretty damm cheap too.

I don't like AC cause they over SELL flights. If you don't check in 24 hours ahead there is no guarantee you are flying. WJ never over sells. Porter?

Remember this is a capitalist country, want to earn lots of money do something not every Tom, Dick, Harry and his dog who owns sunglasses wants to do. Or you are just the cheap meat of the day.