Kamloops Student Pilot and Plane missing August 7, 2013

[kevinsky18]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/bri ... e13632078/

Searchers are in the air for a second day as they scour an area around Kamloops, B.C., looking for a small plane and its lone pilot.

Rescue Co-ordination Centre spokesman Captain Pat McSorley says the primary search area remains focused just north of Kamloops Lake, only a few kilometres west of Kamloops.

He says a signal from the Cessna 172 has not been picked up, which could mean the device has failed to function or it might have been destroyed if the single-engine craft crashed in a certain way.

A 17-year-old flight school student is the lone person aboard.

He was reported overdue at about noon Tuesday after failing to return to the Kamloops airport following a routine solo flight.

Officials describe the teen as an experienced student, with more than 60 hours of flight time and all the necessary training required by Transport Canada.

[freakonature]

Aircraft found. No survivors.

[iflyforpie]

That is very sad to hear. My condolences to all affected.

[patter]

I would like to express my sadness at this outcome for a student in training. Condolences to this young man's family and friends. I am very sorry for your loss.

[PilotDAR]

A very unhappy discontinuation to a flying career. We all lose a little when that happens.

From what the CBC quotes the aircraft operator as saying, the student was well outside the permitted area for his flight.

I see the limitation of distance or geographical area of flight, as probably being an appropriate limitation placed by the operator, and to be heeded as any other limitation placed upon the operation of the aircraft. Though I have no direct knowledge of the operator's reason for a geographical limitation (though in the mountains, I can begin to imagine), it appears that the appropriateness of the limitation might have just been somewhat reinforced.

I would have to presume that a solo student with the stated experience would have some cross country experience, and could have presented a short cross country flight plan for the consideration of the operator. Appropriate oversight would then have been possible.

[dmarkd]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... loops.html

Came across this CBC article regarding the incident this evening. What immediately struck me was the point made that this student had 100 hours of flight time, and yet was working on his PPL.

I don't know the details, I don't know the pilot, I don't know the school - but the consensus around these parts appears to be that if you haven't "got it" (or gotten close) by the mandated 45 hours, something is missing. This poor soul had more than doubled the minimum and was still working towards his PPL.

Could any of the more experienced give their thoughts on this?

[oldncold]

the student pilot was only 17 years old , age restrictions would obviously play a role in flt hours towards the ppl. the pilot would qualify for a recreational pilot licence. or if glider pilot etc may have only turned 17 this spring part IV of the car's can fill in the details but very arrogant to say at a hundred for a 17 yrs old . lots of other factors at play here. n kamloops bc a mtn airport even ifr there is a shuttle dept procedure due to the steeply rising terrian one can only imagine a ce150 or ce172on a 30+'c .. I think lytton bc hit 38 c the other day . ...

[mdscientist61]

This is really sad. Condolences to the 17 year old pilot's family and friends.

This situation hits a bit close to home. This guy must have really liked flying. I soloed (some decades ago) at age 16. I passed my flight test several days after my 17th birthday with 90-something hours. However, unlike me, this pilot was learning to fly in mountainous terrain... a really good place to learn good flying skills. Along with its hazards and challenges. I can only imagine how his family must feel.

[akoch]

What immediately struck me was the point made that this student had 100 hours of flight time, and yet was working on his PPL.

I've known a few that needed over 100k "to get it", myself included. Don't really know if you can see this as a disadvantage that much. And certainly not a reason to crash.

Condolences to the family.

And would be interesting to understand what caused the accident.

[Shiny Side Up]

I don't know the details, I don't know the pilot, I don't know the school - but the consensus around these parts appears to be that if you haven't "got it" (or gotten close) by the mandated 45 hours, something is missing. This poor soul had more than doubled the minimum and was still working towards his PPL.

There's a lot of possibilities. For instance the kid might have held a RPP and been flying around for a while and was preparing to upgrade to a PPL - part of the difference between the two being making up some cross country time, which is possible he might not have had. We don't know how all the time was aquired either, so he potentially might be a glider pilot or an UPP holder as well. It is also possible that he's been one of those start-stop pilot trainees, which is unfortunately typical for kids of his age since they frequently have other priorities in life besides learning to fly. Either way, it is unfortunately not unusual to have a large ammount of time towards a PPL. The elephant in the room of course that no one wants to mention is there's the possibility that he's not a great student either. It would be interesting to see his PTR.

Either way, its a very unfortunate event, condolences to those affected.

[GyvAir]

The coverage has been corrected to revise the pilot's reported age to 16, not 17. There is an early comment with this story from someone who appears to be a family member, stating that he had just turned 16. In that case, the 100 or so hours logged is more an indication of enthusiasm for, rather than difficulty in mastering the art of flying. Sad news in any case.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... plane.html

[Shiny Side Up]

In that case, the 100 or so hours logged is more an indication of enthusiasm for,

I would tend to agree, wouldn't be the first kid who was held back more by age requirements, which if anything makes this more unfortunate.

[surveyguy]

RIP

[Gogona]

but the consensus around these parts appears to be that if you haven't "got it" (or gotten close) by the mandated 45 hours, something is missing. This poor soul had more than doubled the minimum and was still working towards his PPL.

It's not an issue at all.

First, it's not obvious, that every teen needs to get through the recreational pilot permit in order to convert it to PPL at his 17th birthday. Maybe this guy was patient enough and didn't want to be involved in unnecessary bureaucracy?
It's also not obvious, that every student rushes to get free of his flight school as soon, as possible. Those of them, who used to practice deliberately and can afford these extra hours, will never hurry with getting their licenses.

Second, there is nothing wrong with the large amount of learning hours. I know a bunch of pilots with 90-100+ hours (including myself) who had a various or reasons other than their stupidity, as you are hinting at Do I really need to give an examples?

[Rookie50]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... loops.html

Came across this CBC article regarding the incident this evening. What immediately struck me was the point made that this student had 100 hours of flight time, and yet was working on his PPL.

I don't know the details, I don't know the pilot, I don't know the school - but the consensus around these parts appears to be that if you haven't "got it" (or gotten close) by the mandated 45 hours, something is missing. This poor soul had more than doubled the minimum and was still working towards his PPL.

Could any of the more experienced give their thoughts on this?

Hmmm. So everyone of us who took more than the minimum of 45 to pass the PPL ride are inferior pilots. Interesting analysis.

[dmarkd]

Look, I've jumped in with two feet where I probably shouldn't have even bothered, but I was curious. First and foremost, I have <20 hours (which I can't even prove due to poor record keeping and bad decisions), and I'm merely an enthusiast hoping to soon get back on track towards my PPL. That said, with those hours already behind me, while the record may not end up reporting it, I will quite obviously be well beyond 45 hours by the time I manage to complete my PPL, so I hold no ill will or believe myself to be superior in any way to those who do the same.

I got home late last night, quickly flipped through some sites before heading to bed, and saw that article. What immediately popped out to me was the 100 hour mention. Obviously, as pointed out here, there are many straightforward explanations as to the hours accumulated which point towards enthusiasm and desire to become a pilot which are clearly more likely than "lack of skill caused him to spend more than the minimum hours attaining his ppl". Honestly, that was really the conversation I was interested in, especially because some have suggested the reason the minimum hours are 45 is because that's how long it takes to acquire the PPL skills, no more no less (and you can't blame me here, the opinion does exist).

Anyway, I apologize for my poorly worded and suggestive post, hope I haven't offended anyone, and I appreciate the comments regarding age requirements, transition through RPL, and other people's experiences.

[Rookie50]

Accepted. People learn at different levels. As a 100 hr PPL I actually thought I knew something. Now as a 500 hr IFR Cpl I think I know little of flying and consider myself still relatively inexperienced.

Reflect on this as you move forward. Best in your training.

[flyinggirl]

Just a thought....regarding his hours. Maybe he flew a lot of hours before reaching the age at which he could solo. He obviously started young and if he had the ambition and excitement of flying, he may just have flown as often as possible, reached the age to solo and had already accumulated many hours just because he could - yet couldnt solo and work towards his flight test - due to his age. So what I am trying to say is that the fact that he has 100 hrs already does not mean he was incompetent.....

[AirFrame]

The reports seem to suggest that he was just "passing time" until he could solo at 17. He was 30 miles beyond his "designated practise area" and according to one report "performing unauthorized maneuvers". Maybe he was getting bored with just flying around, and was practicing spins. Or wondered just how hard it would be to roll a 172, got inverted, panicked, and pulled.

The TSB photos of the site suggest high energy impact with terrain, that's for sure.

[goldeneagle]

I took my first lesson at age 15. Went solo after I got a student permit at 16, the minimum age for the permit. I bought an airplane that summer and flew under supervision of an instructor. When I turned 17 I got the ppl, had 175 hours. When I turned 18 I had a busy day. Cpl flight test, followed immediately by instructors rating flight test. I had done the meifr on the ppl already.

16 yrs old, hundred hours, I think he had the same problem I did, waiting on birthday to roll around.

[GyvAir]

I presume by "solo at 17" you meant 'obtain PPL at 17', as he was on a solo flight.
Not saying this is what happened here, but I know how I'd have felt at 16, with 100 hours experience under my belt yet still on a 20km leash. I'm pretty sure I'd have found that quite frustrating, possibly perceived it as being a little demeaning and would have gone out and pushed those limits as far as I dared. Of course now, many years later, I have a different perspective which is no doubt safer than my 16 year old perspective. Trick is, to live those many years to gain it.

[Doc]

Don't care how many hours the young lad had (no relevance at all) I'm very sad that one has proceeded to his alternate, so early in life. So sorry for all involved.

[Schooner69A]

Another picture from kamloopsthisweek.com showing the propeller. I don't know what to make of it... Its condition would seem to indicate that it was not being driven, but how? Why?

http://raven.b-it.ca/portals/uploads/ka ... plane2.jpg

John

[Shiny Side Up]

That's what props look like when they come to a very sudden stop relatively even across its plane of rotation. In other words both blades contact at once, which would seem to indicate a fairly perpendicular impact. Very hard to look at.