Hey there ATC people. If a runway is NOTAMED closed, can an instrument approach still be conducted? Precision or Non-Precision?

We are talking helicopter here....ie not landing on the closed runway, but breaking off to adjacent taxi.

My answer would be... it depends on why the runway is closed.

If the runway is notamed closed the tower may not be controlling access to that surface, therefore they may not know of vehicles or obstructions on the surface that may interfere with ILS systems, etc.

If you were doing a simulated or practice approach it would more than likely be allowed although I would certainly make sure the pilot was aware of what was going on on the runway in case he had an aircraft emergency, etc.

Tc

I would say ... yes, unless otherwise advised by ATC.

If the approach is compromised it should be NOTAMed separately from the runway closure, for flight planning purposes, to prevent you from planning a circling approach. If the ILS glideslope is at risk (eg from vehicles) I would expect it to be turned off, also.

Every time a vehicle enters certain portions of the manoeuvring area the ILS approach is compromised, so there isn't a notam issued everytime.

We wouldn't get into a situation where a circling approach to the closed runway would be necessary because we have more than 1 ILS.

As a general rule of thumb if you ask the ACC for an IFR approach to a runway that is notamd closed at our airport you aren't going to get it.

But ask, the worse we can say is no, but we will accommodate it if we can...and if you're going to make a request like that make it early as you can, sometimes it make take us a few minutes to ascertain if the request can be granted.

Tc

I think there might be more than one way to interpret the question asked, and if I've got one the OP didn't intend then I apologize.

Let's say Sumspot runway 12/30 is closed for repairs.

Absent a NOTAM to the contrary, I would expect to be able to plan, take credit for (for alternate purposes), be cleared to and actually fly the RNAV (GNSS) RWY 30 circle to land 04. And without a specific NOTAM referring to it, I'd still expect to be able to plan, take credit for, and fly to circling minima the ILS RWY 30. So in that sense, yes I would expect to be allowed to conduct the approaches to the closed runway.

If whatever was closing the runway was expected also to prevent the ILS being unusable for circling purposes for the duration of the closure (eg vehicles), I would expect to see it NOTAMed as u/s separately from the runway closure.

I would not however expect to be cleared to fly the RNAV (GNSS) RWY 30 to straight-in minima, or the ILS RWY 30 down to decision altitude, but given that the runway 30 is closed - training aside - neither of those is a very useful task.

Am I way off base?

Am I way off base?

No I think that's a pretty reasonable conclusion. Where I work we don't often do that and yes usually if there is construction underway on the runway we will do one of two things, either notam the ILS off for the duration, or notam it off available with 20 min prior notice.

"20 min prior notice" is usually a good hint that there are vehicles working in the restricted area for the ILS and the 20 minutes is for us to get them to get the area ready, any trenches filled in etc, and the equipment out of there if the approach is required.

My initial thoughts in my first response were if I've got an IFR approach unavailable either by notam or voice advisory or 20 pnr that serves a runway that is closed I generally won't approve that approach because it interrupts the work that is going on and every time I stop the work out there to make an IFR approach available it adds to the total time for the project.

The example of what I was thinking of in my head is "Rwy 09/27 closed due construction" is issued by notam. The construction requires dump trucks to pass through the ILS restricted area and cross the runway. In this case the ILS wouldn't be notamed as there aren't any permanent obstructions in that area, to make it available we have to halt the dump trucks and get the area inspected to ensure a big rock hasn't fallen off a truck in the critical area. Now the entire construction grinds to halt and all the workers sit on their hands while the helicopter flies and IFR approach to RWY 09.

Meanwhile ILS 18 is up, running and serviceable, but the helicopter requests 09 because he doesn't like to taxi and it's closer to his base.

Guess what, 09 isn't going to be approved.


I warned you that's the scenario I was thinking of in my head, sometimes my head is a scary place..

I think we were looking at it from two different angles....

Having said all that, if there was a reason someone needed that approach we'd do our best to make it available.

Tc