Proper R/T Usage

[rt777]

Hey, I am approaching 100 hours on my PPL now working towards my commercial and want to improve my RT usage, especially before building any bad habits. I know the basics and stuff but I want to sound professional and proper when transmitting, rather than a student pilot or most people in practice areas, especially when flying through busy Class C airspace full of Airlines like Vancouver.

For example. Is it proper for me to say, "Ready For Takeoff"? I am hearing that the only time "take off" should be said is by ATC, or when reading back the Take-Off Clearance. Would I say "Ready for Departure" when holding short or lined up on a runway.

And as far as reading back instructions for VFR clearances, I only have to read back Hold-Short instructions correct unless asked to read back? or would it be a good idea to read back certain instructions like altitude restrictions, or unusual clearances such as changing circuit patterns.

Another term I am unsure of is "requesting" I feel like its not proper ICAO terminology to say the word "requesting" For example, when in Class C when asking for clearance to Descend from 4500 to 3000, what would be the proper way to ask this.

Any other tips/tricks to really keep proper ICAO R/T, and keep things brief and clear, rather than long messages with a lot of useless info and uhmmms?
Thanks!

[Panama Jack]

If you are serious about conforming to ICAO radiotelephony, you should get your hands on ICAO DOC 9432 (Manual of Radiotelephony).

http://dcaa.trafikstyrelsen.dk:8000/ica ... 202007.pdf

[Beefitarian]

Weird, I typed out an answer,

juliet kilo charlie ready 3 4

I must have forgot to submit it.

Here's why it's so short. I already talked to ground. Tower knows where I am and what I want to do so I make it brief. Give them my call letters, then either say ready or holding short and runway number.
I use ready if I can't see anyone on final and "holding short" to reassure traffic I'm not just going to pull out in front of them, or am parked on the numbers while they are on final.

juliet kilo charlie holding short 2 6

Sometimes if it's not busy, I get chatty and mix it up to entertain the tower folks.

yankee tango uniform ready when able 1 5

I used to say things like.

delta echo kilo ready to go for the active.

I like to use the number now because it reminds them where I am, in case there are multiple runways in use. Or if I somehow ended up waiting for the wrong runway. Maybe they changed it due to wind, I'm lost, ground sent me to the wrong one, etc.

At an uncontrolled place I still try to be brief and stay on topic but just say a bit more to tell everyone what I'm doing, since it might be the first call they hear from me.

Kalaupapa traffic, Cessna 172 November 1 3 gulf, 3 miles to the east at one thousand five hundred feet inbound, I'll be crossing midfield to check the winds and joining the circuit down wind for full stop Kalaupapa traffic.

Kalaupapa traffic, Cessna 172 November 1 3 gulf back tracking runway 2 3 for take off.

Kalaupapa traffic, Cessna 172 November 1 3 gulf departing the circuit down wind to the north Kalaupapa traffic

I say the location at the end again incase I cut it off at the front or they were not ready to hear it. Then they don't have to wonder, "Was that here, did he say Kahalui or Kalaupapa?"

It's not set in stone and I'm certainly open to suggestions for improvement.

[Colonel Sanders]

Less is more.

[photofly]

less more?

[Beefitarian]

During read back they will want to know you heard and understood all their numbers.

uniform india charlie cleared for take off turn heading 2 7 3 not above 5 thousand contact 128 decimal 7 when off.

Some are fussier than others. Incorrect read backs usually just get a quick correction. "Uniform india charlie, that's not above 4 thousand." Or "129 decimal 7."

I sometimes apologize because I feel bad, even though that might be too much chatter.

Sorry 'bout that, heading 2 7 3 not above 4 thousand, uniform India charlie.

All the "Uhhhs." Usually show up when I start talking before I thought about it for a second. First contact almost always needs to contain three things.
1. Type/Registration. ( Then they know what to look for and how fast/slow I'm likely going to be. )
2. Where I am.
3. What I plan to do.

[old_man]

Be his guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqkOi2AdjLw

[Rookie50]

Weird, I typed out an answer,

juliet kilo charlie ready 3 4

I must have forgot to submit it.

Here's why it's so short. I already talked to ground. Tower knows where I am and what I want to do so I make it brief. Give them my call letters, then either say ready or holding short and runway number.
I use ready if I can't see anyone on final and "holding short" to reassure traffic I'm not just going to pull out in front of them, or am parked on the numbers while they are on final.

juliet kilo charlie holding short 2 6

Sometimes if it's not busy, I get chatty and mix it up to entertain the tower folks.

yankee tango uniform ready when able 1 5

I used to say things like.

delta echo kilo ready to go for the active.

I like to use the number now because it reminds them where I am, in case there are multiple runways in use. Or if I somehow ended up waiting for the wrong runway. Maybe they changed it due to wind, I'm lost, ground sent me to the wrong one, etc.

At an uncontrolled place I still try to be brief and stay on topic but just say a bit more to tell everyone what I'm doing, since it might be the first call they hear from me.

Kalaupapa traffic, Cessna 172 November 1 3 gulf, 3 miles to the east at one thousand five hundred feet inbound, I'll be crossing midfield to check the winds and joining the circuit down wind for full stop Kalaupapa traffic.

Kalaupapa traffic, Cessna 172 November 1 3 gulf back tracking runway 2 3 for take off.

Kalaupapa traffic, Cessna 172 November 1 3 gulf departing the circuit down wind to the north Kalaupapa traffic

I say the location at the end again incase I cut it off at the front or they were not ready to hear it. Then they don't have to wonder, "Was that here, did he say Kahalui or Kalaupapa?"

It's not set in stone and I'm certainly open to suggestions for improvement.

I add which taxiway I'm on -- "GAbc on bravo holding short of 26, ready to go". Important perhaps on a busy day and doing an intersection takeoff, somewhat common at larger spread out airports. There have been a few incidents where tower confused similar model aircraft on a hectic day.

[ahramin]

I think what this thread demonstrates is the folly of trying to learn proper r/t the North American way ... in other words listening to how others do it and follow whoever sounds cool. Follow Panama's advice and learn ICAO phraseology from ICAO, not from Joe Cool Instructor. Supplement that with the AIM of whatever country you are flying in and you've got everything covered.

In the example above, you will not find any ICAO or TC publication that restricts the use of the words "take off". You will find however that the proper call is "Vancouver Tower, ABC Ready". There's lots of home grown philosophy on why you add this and that piece of information to the proper r/t, but if your goal is to develop good phraseology and good habits for flying anywhere in the world, stick to ICAO phraseology.

[photofly]

ICAO: "G-CD ready"
CAP413: "G-CD ready for departure"
TC AIM RAC 4.2.8: "TOWER, JULIETT GOLF TANGO READY FOR TAKEOFF RUNWAY THREE SIX"

Pick your poison.

[Moose47]

G'day

If you follow the RT procedures in this video you should do fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AFv48IWhJw

Cheers...Chris

[rt777]

G'day

If you follow the RT procedures in this video you should do fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AFv48IWhJw

Cheers...Chris

LOL thats my favorite ATC recording....November?

[oldtimer]

The best message I can give is to listen carefully to the local TV newsreaders, male or female, especially for the larger markets. Do not bother about what they are saying but listen carefully HOW they read the news. The timing, the annunciation and the clarity of speech. It is a good free lesson, then learn the jargon.

[plhought]

...The best message I can give is to listen carefully to the local TV newsreaders, male or female, especially for the larger markets....

"I'm Yankee Romeo Burgandy and i'm ready for takeoff-erooo runway 26?"

Yuk yuk yuk yuk

[Beefitarian]

I think he meant Tori Campell.

[G3]

Beefatarian wrote:

I typed out an answer,

juliet kilo charlie ready 3 4
I must have forgot to submit it.

Here's why it's so short. I already talked to ground. Tower knows where I am and what I want to do so I make it brief. Give them my call letters, then either say ready or holding short and runway number.
I use ready if I can't see anyone on final and "holding short" to reassure traffic I'm not just going to pull out in front of them, or am parked on the numbers while they are on final.

Don't assume the tower knows where you are, remember the US Airways B737 and commuter Metroliner crash at LAX a few years ago. Tragic

G3

[RatherBeFlying]

This happens a lot on 126.7 and the sheer length blocks transmissions from other folks.

My tips: Listen -- if there's ATIS get that first

Before transmitting, say out loud to yourself what you will be transmitting. When more experienced, just say to yourself.

The busier the facility, the more concise you have to be. The controller will be happy to chat on slow day.

If you sound like you know what you are doing, the controller will trust you more, but if you are a student or unfamiliar with the area, say so so that the controller can work with that.

If you don't understand some unexpected instruction, say "do not understand" -- you will get something simpler to follow pronto.

[Shiny Side Up]

Less is more.

More rock and Les Nessman.

[Tinker]

And whatever you do in your flying career,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,DON"T SAY,,,, "Any conflicting traffic please reply".

[Siddley Hawker]

Make sure your every transmission is done in impeccable ICAO English, otherwise every European in earshot will be highly incensed.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5189 ... t-usa.html

[Big Pistons Forever]

The point of R/T is to communicate information between aircraft and ATC/other aircraft. If the information is not exchanged then you have failed regardless of how good you sound.

my 02 cents:

Some general rules

1) Think before you push the mic button. Most crappy radio calls are a result of trying to think about what to say while you are live on the radio

2) Wait for a break in the conversation before transmitting. If the tower asks something from someone else then wait for the reply before jumping in.

3) If you have just changed frequency wait for a few seconds before transmitting so you don't walk on someone else. This is my personal per peeve because I see it all the time , even with experienced pilots.

4) The aircraft call sign goes at the beginning of a call from you to ATC and at the end of a transmission when replying to ATC

5) The initial call to any station uses all 4 letters of your call sign (eg GABC) after that use the last 3 (eg ABC) unless ATC advises otherwise

6) Only Morons use "Any conflicting traffic please advise"

The last item is going to be a bit contentions, but I am going to say it anyway. I teach my students to readback route and altitude instructions. Yes you are permitted to just reply with your call sign when flying VFR but if you do that and you have mis-understood the instruction you now own it. I like the double check that a readback provides and I have seen numerous instances when students thought they understood what they were cleared to do, but where wrong.

[Rookie50]

The point of R/T is to communicate information between aircraft and ATC/other aircraft. If the information is not exchanged then you have failed regardless of how good you sound.

my 02 cents:

Some general rules

1) Think before you push the mic button. Most crappy radio calls are a result of trying to think about what to say while you are live on the radio

2) Wait for a break in the conversation before transmitting. If the tower asks something from someone else then wait for the reply before jumping in.

3) If you have just changed frequency wait for a few seconds before transmitting so you don't walk on someone else. This is my personal per peeve because I see it all the time , even with experienced pilots.

4) The aircraft call sign goes at the beginning of a call from you to ATC and at the end of a transmission when replying to ATC

5) The initial call to any station uses all 4 letters of your call sign (eg GABC) after that use the last 3 (eg ABC) unless ATC advises otherwise

6) Only Morons use "Any conflicting traffic please advise"

The last item is going to be a bit contentions, but I am going to say it anyway. I teach my students to readback route and altitude instructions. Yes you are permitted to just reply with your call sign when flying VFR but if you do that and you have mis-understood the instruction you now own it. I like the double check that a readback provides and I have seen numerous instances when students thought they understood what they were cleared to do, but where wrong.

+ 1 to number 6. You using that phrase, it's not about you. If theres a conflict, I'll call you up.

I readback route, altitude, takeoff, hold short and landing clearances although some of these are not technically required. In short, if they say "cleared" I read back.

When you are a small aircraft, which already means the tower controller thinks you are likely a dangerous idiot, you reduce stress everywhere when repeating back, "Cleared to land 25 Right, GAbc" , especially when there is a regional jet landing parallel on 25 left.

In fact, when cleared for say a visual approach from an approach controller while IFR, and you are handed off to tower, you are expected -- although don't believe it's technically mandatory -- to call up tower and say, xxx tower, GAbc cleared visual 25 right"

[ahramin]

In fact, when cleared for say a visual approach from an approach controller while IFR, and you are handed off to tower, you are expected -- although don't believe it's technically mandatory -- to call up tower and say, xxx tower, GAbc cleared visual 25 right"

Reference?

[Big Pistons Forever]

602.31 (1) Subject to subsection (3), the pilot-in command of an aircraft shall
(a) comply with and acknowledge, to the appropriate air traffic control unit, all of the air traffic control instructions directed to and received by the pilot-in-command; and
(b) comply with all of the air traffic control clearances received and accepted by the pilot-in-command and
(i) subject to subsection (2), in the case of an IFR flight, read back to the appropriate air traffic control unit the text of any air traffic control clearance received,

[ahramin]

Uh, was that in response to my question BPF?