Supplementing Canadian Flight Training with US FTU

[smokescreen_wshh]

First time poster, long time lurker.

I'm a student pilot based in the GTA working towards my RPP. I work full time (unrelated field) and have flown on Saturdays only (my CFI isn't available on Sunday)

The weather each weekend for the last 2 months has been a disaster flight wise. I've only been up once since the middle of October. I plan on taking a Christmas vacation to one of the Southern States and was wondering if its possible to count flight time down their towards my Canadian license.

I would probably look for 4-6 hours over the course of my 1 week vacation.

Would the American FTU simply sign my log book? or would they also require the TC Canada copy held by my Canadian School?
Is this plan do-able?

[GQ4]

I believe it would "count" as total flight time, but not towards the minimum "training time" required under the CARs; unless the operator held a TC FTU OC and the instructor a Canadian Instructor Rating. Since few people complete training in the minimum amount of time, it's probably not an issue at the end of the day.

However, that is just a guess... if you want that time to count get something in writing from TC before you spend the money.

[New_PIC]

It may not count towards the hours required for your license but if you learn some of the lessons then your TC certified instructor here doesn't have to spend as much time on those parts. You may still see some savings here if you get recommended for a flight test without as many extra "recognized" training hours. My guess is that it would cost you more cash overall getting to your license but you would have fun, get some varied experience, and your time wont be wasted. Unless your flying dollars are tightly budgeted, go for it and don't worry about counting the training. We're doing this because we like to fly, right?

[Iliopolus_1]

Good Question.
Duel hours for a ppl and cpl can be done duel by any instructor that is kosha in that country.
For example, you do 10 hours duel and one hour solo in Florida, and with your log book stamped
and preferably a certified copy of your student training record, you show up at your
GTA Flying school and finish it off. Or, you could do a mixture of training in Florida and
Ontario, each with flying instructors at their flying schools, and then, pick one of the two
places to do your flight test. then convert say the US licence to a Canadian.

When it comes to instructor training, there is a snag. Regardless of where you do the training
you must have 15 hours Duel with a Canadian Class One to get a recommend in Canada. So
if you could in theory, do some in Canada , to to Florida, finish it off and then come back to
Canada do sufficient ground and flight to be recommended for ride here.

You might actually benefit from the two different jurisdictions and be more accustomed to
flying in both after you get your licence.


Go for it and enjoy the experience.

[photofly]

TC licensing have authorized only a very few Authorized Persons to sign off foreign training towards a Canadian Licence. But if the training you revived is towards an ICAO licence they will permit the time towards the practical requirements. You will have to submit your logbooks and PTR to TC for review but I imagine as long as the time and lesson content is recorded somehow, they will accept it.

[Colonel Sanders]

Free advice: Call up your TC district office and get
an answer from them on whether or not they will
let you count the dual time.

They may have some caveats eg they might insist
on part 141 instead of part 61.

Note that even PIC is defined completely differently
in the USA.

[LousyFisherman]

Free advice: Call up your TC district office and get
an answer from them on whether or not they will
let you count the dual time..

Who cares? You are flying for fun! If you want to fly, GO FLY!!!!

Just my $0.00 worth
LF

[Shiny Side Up]

Who cares? You are flying for fun! If you want to fly, GO FLY!!!!

+1

I hate to say it, but I'm going to make a guess and say that our OP is not going to complete his RPP in the minimum required time, so bothering about how many hours can be logged towards said permit is probably irrelevant. If you can afford to go on a trip, and go find some time to rent planes and instructors on said trip, you're probably not worried about the cost of your license. Go fly and have fun. Put it in your log book. Don't trouble yourself with couting it towards your permit.

[Colonel Sanders]

I wouldn't give up quite that easily.

Bring your logbook. Log what you did. No one
can EVER fault you for that - not even the worst
paperwork martinet. Get the logbook signed off
by the American instructor (can't hurt, costs the
same).

It can't hurt to try to get credit for the time. Who
knows, you actually might!

And as SSU says, don't loose sight of the objective
of your flight training, which is to develop skill and
knowledge. Not create paperwork.

Always, always, always: get the skill and knowledge,
and the paperwork will soon follow.

Only a suicidal fool chases paper and disregards the
development of skill and knowledge.

You would be surprised how many suicidal fools there
are out there, though, that think that aviation is all
about the production of paperwork.

[ReturningPPL]

I had an idea like this too while going on vacation...not so much in the USA but various places in Canada. The way I see it is that you are supposed to be keeping current anyways after you get your PPL....so sneaking in a few hours before you get your PPL is like the same thing except the timing may be different.

I was thinking that when you are ready for your PPL recomendation that when they review your log book and verify the hours that the American stuff might become an issue because it may be harder to confirm. People might even argue and debate their interpretations of the CARs etc and it would become a big head ache. I would even consider leaving it off your log book.

Also, I don't know what your instructor(s) would think if you get training in other schools!

I think the meteorolgy stuff in the USA might be different in the USA but I don't see why you shouldn't stick in a few hours in actual flying. I wonder what would happen if you walk into a Florida flying school and ask for some lessons to make it your "adventure flying vacation"...you'll probably come back to your regular school looking like a genius!''

The OP is also doing his Rec permit --- I heard many places won't rent to people with just a rec permit because of insurance issues.

[photofly]

It's not the FTU's role to review your logbook prior to the flight test; it's not one of the conditions that must be satisfied before an instructor can issue a letter of recommendation. The examiner, however, needs to see evidence of 35 hours total flight time (25 for an RPP) - that is all, without care as to with whom and how much instruction has been received.

The other criteria for the issue of an RPP or PPL need to be assessed at the time of application which can be up to 12 months after the flight test for the test pass still to be valid. And they're assessed by an Authorized Person who can sign off temporary privileges or by TC itself.

[Colonel Sanders]

FWIW I've never heard of anyone with the problem that
they got their RPP/PPL in the absolute minimum hours
but were dinged because they had foreign flight time in
their logbook.

For that matter, who has ever even heard of anyone
getting their RPP/PPL in the absolute minimum hours?!

In the mid 90's, right after the CARs (with the RPP) came
out, I took great pride in training a student to RPP with
exactly 25.3 hours (I was the AP issuing the RPP).

However, no one gives a sh1t about that sort of thing
any more. People happily hose money at inefficient
flight training, and that's fine with me.

Anyways, I think everyone is worried about a problem
that simply doesn't exist. Bring your logbook with you
in your travels. Get dual in a different place from a
different instructor on a different airplane. It will make
you a better pilot, which after all, is the true objective
of all this paperwork nonsense. Write down in your
logbook what you did. Get the instructor to sign off
the entry.

If TC decides to screw you out of counting the dual time,
oh well. They can't take the knowledge and skill away
from you, which after all is more important than the
paper. Don't ever forget that.

FWIW I've logged hundreds of hours of flight time (dual
and PIC) in N-registered aircraft all over California and
Florida and Mexico and Central America. Anyone that
thinks it "doesn't count" can go f__k themselves. Hell,
I have an FAA ATP.



That's me upside-down in the yellow N-registered Pitts.

You can f__king will bet that I logged that time. It "counted".

[Shiny Side Up]

For that matter, who has ever even heard of anyone
getting their RPP/PPL in the absolute minimum hours?!

We do it all the time for the PPL, I can't say the same for the RPP since I think we've only put through maybe as many as I can count on my one hand. No one ever goes hard at doing the RPP it seems which is generally what one needs to do. There have been a few of our 45 hour PPLs that could have done it though.

If TC decides to screw you out of counting the dual time,
oh well. They can't take the knowledge and skill away
from you, which after all is more important than the
paper. Don't ever forget that.

And that's the important thing about going about it. I always find that people confuse what the paper requirements are for licensing. As an AP I get this request lots though, can I count some of this time I did in the states? In all cases, the applicant didn't need to so my response was "you don't need to bother". a few have been really insistent about it though, same sort of people who believe the government keeps a permanent record on you of everything you do. Which I then have to usually go into one of my Big Brother is Watching/ Black Helicopters/ Paranoia speeches to convince them.

[cgartly]

When I had my Student pilot permit (had passed the flight test already but hadn't written the test) I did some flying in Las Vegas. It was difficult to find a school that was willing to even do dual with me.

Basically if you aren't a licensed pilot they need to either have a charter license from the FAA (or whatever it is called) or if you are going to do some flight training towards a permit/license you need to have a TSA security screening on file. Thank 9/11 for that.

[smokescreen_wshh]

Thanks for the all the advice gents. I will take the skill and training over the hours for my RPP.

@Returning PPL... I've made some early inquiries to block time renters and have discovered that this may be an issue (will not rent to RPP). I guess my only work around would be to just rent from my flight school and eventually transition to the PPL.

[Beefitarian]

I wouldn't give up quite that easily.

Bring your logbook. Log what you did. No one
can EVER fault you for that - not even the worst
paperwork martinet. Get the logbook signed off
by the American instructor (can't hurt, costs the
same).

It can't hurt to try to get credit for the time. Who
knows, you actually might!

Absolutely, at least one nice lady at a TC office told me all time flying in an aircraft counts toward your totals.

It is not going to count toward your required time for a license perhaps, but if you need a few more after passing a flight test, just go solo and knock them off as a student. You can even go on a short cross country, you will never have too much flying.

Here's another question. If you're licensed and flying with an instructor on vacation. He's just drinking coffee and there because you don't want to get a local equivalent to your PPL or even CPL. Would you ever log that as PIC? I don't, mostly because I know I was flying the whole time yet still don't care if I have two hundred thousand hours logged as dual. I'm just "fishing" for opinions.