Ultra low cost in Canada

[timel]

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... rn-canada/

I find it difficult to accept working that hard making it up +2000 hrs alive in charter flight on a Be10 in a third level company that I really love right now and have that in front of me.

In a french article with radio Canada they say the want to inspire from Ryanair in Europe the shittiest airline EVER with the worst working condition for flight crews.

That's what's Ryanair in Europe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo1sG88oQbg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvCxWzQVn-U

Ho well....

[Airmanship Police]

Let the race to the bottom begin!!

[C-FABH]

Operating an "ultra-low cost" A319 in/out of places like Prince George, Kamloops, and Prince Rupert makes zero financial sense. Terrible business model from what I've read in this article.

[oldtimer]

WOW, Now I can fly all around Western Canada cheaper than I can put gas in my little econobox car. Makes sense to me???
Yaa right.
Now, what happens when a passenger of size, (You know, the the one 2 axe handles wide that has to turn sideways to fit in the door), shows up and tries to fit in the smaller seats the accountants have deemed it is more economical, what if a vision challenged person wiith a service dog wants to fly, what about the mobility challenged? Are these people going to be able to travel on the ultra low cost carriers?
I think not without a lot of shouting, yelling and a whole bunch more fees attached.
Airline travel is going to the dogs fast in this country.
Vancouver is about to become the new airline failure capital of Canada.

[I WAS Birddog]

Predicted future conversations with my son:

"Dad...I wanna be a pilot just.like.you."

"mmmmm....no ya don't....You wanna be a politician OR....a dude that runs a publicly funded air ambulance service in northern Ontario for personal gain. OR....a rap singer with a reality TV show. Those are your choices. Now shut your mouth eat your veggies"

[timel]

make sens economicaly :

electrical A319 instead of jetfueled A319, put bicycles instead of seats for the passengers / no food for diet / ecological and good for health / the faster you pedal the less you pay

[BigQ]

No frickin' way it will work.

BC is only province in Canada under the throes of deflation. Average Vancouverite pays 85% of PRE-TAX income on housing. Overall provincial savings rate around -6%.

Sure, there is a vacuum, but it still won't work BECAUSE NOBODY'S GOT ANY MONEY!!!

Also, where will they find the pilots to live of 35k/year in YVR? Base the business in Kamloops or PG?

Timel, check out Norwegian Air Shuttle. Flights out of Gatwick for North America, on Irish-registered aircraft, with pilots based in Bangkok. Race to the bottom indeed.

[V2-OMG!]

No frickin' way it will work.

BC is only province in Canada under the throes of deflation. Average Vancouverite pays 85% of PRE-TAX income on housing. Overall provincial savings rate around -6%.

Sure, there is a vacuum, but it still won't work BECAUSE NOBODY'S GOT ANY MONEY!!!

Also, where will they find the pilots to live of 35k/year in YVR? Base the business in Kamloops or PG?

Timel, check out Norwegian Air Shuttle. Flights out of Gatwick for North America, on Irish-registered aircraft, with pilots based in Bangkok. Race to the bottom indeed.

The retiring baby boomers will have lots of money when they sell their million-dollar homes and downsize into a condo because they want to travel more.

Heck, anyone who bought a house 20 years ago is also a closet millionaire.

BTW, I had occasion to walk by Tiffany's the other day, and saw lots of pretty blue Wedgwood blue boxes being carried out of the store. Then I walked by one of the most expensive restaurants and they were lined up outside the door.

Yep, nobody in Vancouver has any money.

[timel]

Timel, check out Norwegian Air Shuttle. Flights out of Gatwick for North America, on Irish-registered aircraft, with pilots based in Bangkok. Race to the bottom indeed.

What's wrong with those goddamn Brits or Irish wanting to lower aviation stardards that bad. Some old billionaire somewhere must hate us Pilots.

Didn't know about it but wouldn't be impossible, Sunwing gets East Europe 737 to fly with east European crews from Canada to the South and Transport Canada and politics do sweat @#$! all to protect Canadian jobs.
I sure know my co-worker won't send their CVs to this kind of airline and the only only reason I would send my CV would be to have the chance to ask the interviewing pilots how they feel about giving interviews for such shitty job conditions.
I wouldn't be suprised thou this ultralowcost will start with good working conditions to attract good pilots and than lower it down properly. How can you pay good salaries with a 19$ ticket?

[Airmanship Police]

Truth is, there will be a line of pilots waiting in line to work there..... Whores!

[BigQ]

The retiring baby boomers will have lots of money when they sell their million-dollar homes and downsize into a condo because they want to travel more.

Oh yeah, will work out real well when everybody is trying to sell at the same time, and have to sell at a loss

Heck, anyone who bought a house 20 years ago is also a closet millionaire.

Only until gains are realized. Until then, they own an iliquid residence. Word is, the bubble is unwinding out West...

BTW, I had occasion to walk by Tiffany's the other day, and saw lots of pretty blue Wedgwood blue boxes being carried out of the store. Then I walked by one of the most expensive restaurants and they were lined up outside the door.

Yep, nobody in Vancouver has any money.

Small fraction of the population.

Anyways, if you look at disposable income stats in Canada, and esp. in BC, I don't see this working out. The ULC model requires nearly-full planes to work, and (comparatively) short distances between cities. Canada is a big country, which is the reason why $19 tickets will never happen here, population density is too low.

Also, 319s between Vancouver, Kamloops, Prince George? Kingston is bigger than Kam and PG and barely makes sense for a 5x daily B1900 service to YYZ.

[xsbank]

They don't actually have to fly one flight, they get the financing, lease the a/c and paint them, then wait for A/C or Westjet to buy them out. Or, executives take great lumps of cash for salaries on borrowed money, airline goes t.u. and executives take golden parachute, pilots who bought type ratings get laid off and assets seized by bank. Executives go and live in the Bahamas or in West Vancouver.

[GyvAir]

get the financing, lease the a/c and paint them, then wait for A/C or Westjet to buy them out

The Michael Scott Paper Company business model?

[longjon]

Isn't capitalism great? Unless you're a pilot who has bought a seat and this happens.

[Colonel Sanders]

I guess no one learned from Jetsgo. Too long ago.

where will they find the pilots

I would wager that they will have a hundred times
more applicants for pilots jobs than they need, and
many of them will come from people here, who are
happy to pay for their type ratings and work for
terrible wages.

Don't get mad at the crappy airline. Look in the
mirror. That's who's enabling the crappy airline.

[Panama Jack]

The problem that I see is that, in Canada, it is actually quite hard to achieve those low costs like in the US or even Europe. As far as the other aspects go, there aren't many alternative airports available, as they have done in the US and Europe.

It will be interesting to watch the developments.

[Liquid Charlie]

The retiring baby boomers will have lots of money when they sell their million-dollar homes and downsize into a condo because they want to travel more

Wrong on most counts -- as for me -- not enough money and I have no ambition to sit in the back of an airplane going to bumfucknowhere -- I have developed a great dislike of flying as a paying victim -- when i do go I bring a small blackboard alone and drag my finger nails along it just to make me feel better --

[Rowdy]

Could it simply be smoke and mirrors to strike fear into the negotiations for Rouge/encore/WJPA etc?

'these guys over here are gonna smoke us if we don't cut some more costs, like, your wages'

[GRK]

HEY?! Did someone just call me a WHORE?! (well duh….aren't we all? At least I get to choose who I do "business" with!) Oh by the way, has anyone actually SEEN a pay scale yet? Lotsa poop being flung here without any numbers published! Or did I miss something? I actually like the thought that it's a preemptive strike by GS to bring the WS bunch into line! Clever! (Watch him you guys, he's a shifty bugger!)

[cdnpilot77]

It's amazing how nothing is known about this company other than it is set to be a LCC yet the floccinaucinihilipilification has already begun.

Ps. How many threads do we need on the subject? I have counted at least 4, is that enough?

[delta1]

Canada Jetlines: Ultra-low cost carrier being proposed for Western Canada

"Jetlines would be based in Vancouver and aim to fly to underserved markets or those without any service. Potential destinations include Prince George, Winnipeg, Kamloops, Prince Rupert, Regina, and Edmonton."

Good luck filling a 319 to Rupert. The term 'Low Cost Carrier' scares me but what on earth is "Ultra Low Cost" mean???? Whats after "ultra"?? Passengers be warned-you get what you pay for.

[timel]

Based on a European ultra low cost which is Ryanair I can surely state and help yourself by viewing that vidéo that is an élégant picture of ultra low cost http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo1sG88oQbg

Sorry, but don't try making me believe it'll be a place pilots want to work. Ultra low cost is aviation at it's exteem cheapness including cheap salaries and a maximum optimised duty with minimum employees.

I would rather fly a be10 and have fun.

[ajet32]

Spirit Airlines in the USA is a ULCC by some peoples model . Pilots line up to work there because they have fun, make money and fly a decent airplane. They sell every bit of space on the airplane you pay for exactly what you get a seat, if you want to check bags drink coffee you pay extra just like Ryan Air, Easyjet, Vueling and others. Those European locost, ULCC are full and making money. We hear a lot of things about Ryan Air but does anyone actually know someone who does or has flown there. Some parts of their Terms & Conditions are foreign to us as Canadians but very standard in Europe. They also make money and the airplanes are full all the time.
I for one don't see anything wrong with more large airplanes in Canada along with more jobs. Just my 2 cents.

[Krimson]

We hear a lot of things about Ryan Air but does anyone actually know someone who does or has flown there. Some parts of their Terms & Conditions are foreign to us as Canadians but very standard in Europe.

I have flown Ryanair before, it was horrible! And nothing out of the ordinary happened. I have family and friends who have flown with them a lot, same as Wizzair and the others. It is NOT "very standard in Europe." These are the ULCCs. People fly with them because of the price, that is the only reason. You cannot even begin to compare the service from BA, KLM, Lufthansa, SAS, etc. I have been on them all, there is no contest.

From the pilot group side, I know a few people who have flown for RYA. They hate their life and are waiting to move on to anywhere they can be treated with a little respect. Every pilot in Europe knows it is a stepping stone for something better (or at least hopes it to be). Talking to some new pilots, they are lining up because they have no other options. It is the only place where they can go to work for a few years, get valuable experience and move back home with a chance of getting hired over everyone else. No one looks forward to it, it costs a fortune (just add it to the rest of your debt), you hate your life, but there is an end in sight. RYA knows it, that's how they can keep their pilots in line. There are no unions, no one cares enough, everyone is on their way out. If anyone talks about it, they get the early boot. It's exactly the way they want it.

[Rookie50]

Underserved prince Rupert and Regina....thats funny.