New or Better ways to pull Aviation together

[Tom H]

This is a new thread picking up where the

doug ronan removed as director from copa

(viewtopic.php?f=54&t=90179&p=858131#p858131) thread evolved to.

While I don't agree with everything on the direction the other thread was heading it is time to make changes to the way we work together as we need to bring new (younger) people into the fold and we need to move toward better ways to both get the message out and represent ourselves, both politically and to the public.

Your thoughts

[PilotDAR]

Yes Tom, It is time for a new direction for representation for the owners and pilots of Canada. Members here should consider, to mis quote JFK, "Think not what the [new representation group] can do for you, but what you can do for the [new representation group]. This works because pilots and owners pull together toward a common interest. When that is accomplished, the interests of the individual will be generally served....

[Tom H]

There are many facets to Aviation in Canada...

Ultralight
Homebuilt/Experimental
Recreational
Light GA
Medium GA
Charter
Instruction
Air Lines
Military
History and Heritage
etc etc etc...

But what they all have in common is they have fallen off the public's radar, especially young people and kids.

It is sooooooo different that even 20-30 years ago.

Today all the average person thinks of with Aviation is security lines, late flights, crappy seats and the cost to go where they have to, most never see the outside of the aircraft they fly on.

Kids have been cut off of aviation since the fences went around smaller airports. How many on here were airport brats? Biked to the airport with friends?

Today's aviation, other than airlines, is painted as "Rich Guys" because we have lost touch with the public. They don't now better because no one is telling them!

Time to turn that around

In my highly biased personal opinion

[azimuthaviation]

General aviation has a bad combination of being not very profitable and not very affordable. Aviation in general I dont think excites the public anymore. Aviation came of age over 40 years ago, with the huge advances of the 50's and 60's that saw the Migs and Sabres playing out the batles of the superpowers, to the space race, the jet powered airliners crossing the Atlantic, and finally culminating in 1969 with a man put on the moon. And a few decades before people didnt even know if human flight was even possible to achieve. Seeing a 172 take off to do circuits or anything else going on at the rural airport is pretty anticlimactic Im afraid.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Aviation came of age over 40 years ago, with the huge advances of the 50's and 60's that saw the Migs and Sabres playing out the batles of the superpowers, to the space race, the jet powered airliners crossing the Atlantic, and finally culminating in 1969 with a man put on the moon.

I wonder if the goal of putting people on Mars will rejuvenate the love.

[Tom H]

Aviation came of age over 40 years ago, with the huge advances of the 50's and 60's that saw the Migs and Sabres playing out the batles of the superpowers, to the space race, the jet powered airliners crossing the Atlantic, and finally culminating in 1969 with a man put on the moon.

I wonder if the goal of putting people on Mars will rejuvenate the love.

We forget that to Joe average flight is still an adventure when you get down to the small aircraft level.

It is still an adventure to actually experience flight...something we tend to forget and the weapon we have at our disposal to bring them into us.

But we need to take the proactive position

Tom

[Beefitarian]

I like to see a 172 or any airplane take off, and I like to watch them land even more.

[1000 HP]

I like to see a 172 or any airplane take off, and I like to watch them land even more.

Way to go Beef! Me too

[1000 HP]

Aviation came of age over 40 years ago, with the huge advances of the 50's and 60's that saw the Migs and Sabres playing out the batles of the superpowers, to the space race, the jet powered airliners crossing the Atlantic, and finally culminating in 1969 with a man put on the moon.

I wonder if the goal of putting people on Mars will rejuvenate the love.

I guess I am a bit of a pessimist. Based on the Mars One Forum activity, I don't think that there is anywhere near a large percentage of the human race that gives a rat's butt about going to Mars. Or about airplanes. I drove past a young woman and her infant child the other day. She was in a ditch of muddy orange water along side the road and they were brushing their teeth. I work in Borneo. These kind of living conditions are normal for a large portion of the world's population. People making a dollar a day don't care about Mars or airplanes. They are more worried about their next meal or living to 40. In a lot of countries like this, private aviation is not even possible. I know. I researched bringing my airplane over here but I'd need special government permits and a staff of three just to run it.

I hope that Canada will never be like that. But I am convinced that is the way we are going. A recent example is the closure of Edmonton's City Center airport. The existing governments are not interested in aviation. The average Joe doesn't want a private airplane. It is so unaffordable now that it is not even a dream to most.

Unless we can really change things but this takes a huge effort by the majority or an even bigger effort by a minority. From the last numbers on voter turnout, the majority effort won't happen. I think airport closures will increase.

I've got a 1967 Mooney and although it has been up for sale for over a year now, I have not had a single offer serious or otherwise. Why? It's a nice looking machine, always hangered, and cruises along nice on 10 gph. I have not even been low-balled by a bargain hunter. There is no market for old airplanes. The rich who can afford it want new fast stuff. The rich are very rich, and the rest of us are a long way from there..

So much for the Doom and Gloom end of it.

I wish I had a good answer. Anybody around Lloydminster with a large piece of land want to sub-divide and make a fly-in community with a 4000' paved runway and attached hangers? I'll buy in. Or better yet Victoria area? My wife and I are planning a move there this summer. At least with a fly-in community owned by pilots, it would be hard for them to shut us down at home.

The more I travel around the world, the more I realize what a great country Canada is. We should fight to keep it that way. Perhaps it is time for a serious resetting of our government? It may be too late already.

[davecessna]

I like to see a 172 or any airplane take off, and I like to watch them land even more.

Why to go Beef! Me too

I have been guilty of missing dinner reservations with my wife (bad move genius) because my company's parking lot is adjacent to Trudeau's 24L threshold.

[Beefitarian]

I like to see a 172 or any airplane take off, and I like to watch them land even more.

Way to go Beef! Me too

I have been guilty of missing dinner reservations with my wife (bad move genius) because my company's parking lot is adjacent to Trudeau's 24L threshold.

There has been some talk about converting the Tower at YYC to a restaurant once they move to the new one. I'd show up a day early for that.

"Hi sir can we help you?"
Just here to meet my wife it's under Itarian.
"Oh my, there seems to be a mistake, we have that for tomorrow."
No mistake that's correct. I'm a little early.

[av8rphil]

I have read a lot about attracting younger people, but how do you go about it? If you have any ideas on how to do this why do you not run for one of the open seats as a director on the board that is available in Quebec, Ontario and B C? I am sure the rest of the board would like your input. You do not have to be physically young but you do have to be young at heart and mind. Just like in aviation, do something if things are not to your liking.

[Tom H]

Ok...moving past dinner conversation

A common comment is "people don't care".

Been giving this a lot of thought over the past day before responding.

I don't believe that it's true.

The attendance at Aviation Museum's continues to grow and most going are not aviators or aviation enthusiasts, matter fact country wide we see more and more kids and young families.

In spite of rapidly rising costs of operations and admissions airshows are still among the highest attended public events.

At the Alberta Aviation Museum we have thousands of kids per year coming through our Grade 6 Aerodynamics and theory of Flight program...its part of the curriculum for crying out loud.

COPA for Kids and EAA Young Eagles are highly successful programs with increasing attendance.

So I think the evidence is pretty strong that people are interested.

Problem becomes, as a community, we are doing nothing to keep them coming or make them feel part of the community.

Yes the costs of recreational aviation have gone nuts...mainly because as consumers we haven't been demanding better....and of course depending where you are there is the greed factor.

Yes fences and security have cut off the airport kids of the days of yore...but we haven't done anything to fix it.

We have allowed our passion to be painted as an exclusive rich boys hobby with closed doors, doesn't matter if it's true or not it is the perception,...the exact opposite of where we should be heading.

So how do we turn things around?

Your thoughts

Tom

[Beefitarian]

Buy a couple of sections surrounding CVL2. Build a great camping area and exabition area on the flightline. Start the third EAA fly in week.

[Tom H]

Buy a couple of sections surrounding CVL2. Build a great camping area and exabition area on the flightline. Start the third EAA fly in week.

That and an Air Show are already on the radar for the New Villeneuve site

Tom

[Beefitarian]

I wish it was not so but air-shows can't survive financially.

If you can get some war bird guys to start showing up in any number over about 8, the looky loos like me will come. If the food, bouncy tent, camping and lawn chair theatre is decent my wife will want to go back.

You'll need water for shower barns, semi functional wifi, a couple of covered areas to hold clinics on welding, fabric, sheet metal, etc.

A couple of stages would be bonus.

[MartinB]

Kids have been cut off of aviation since the fences went around smaller airports. How many on here were airport brats? Biked to the airport with friends?

I'm 17 years old and since I was 15, I've been biking a 72.5km route (round trip) to YYC several times every week during the summer. And with the construction going on, I get rewarded nicely for my hard work with a big dirt hill that I can sit on near the runway 16 threshold where I can see over the fence. Call me crazy if you want. I will go to extremes to enjoy aviation lol.

[Beefitarian]

I have to ask though. Why not pull up a chair and watch the 172 do circuits while we wait for a table, instead of chasing us away waving a broom with a COPA sticker on it?

[Shiny Side Up]

When it comes to anything that involves motivating and organizing people, you might as well be herding cats. That said though, there's a lot of things that the aviation crowd can do to generate more interest and get more people involved. The big problem is getting people to put in the effort and time. I hate to say it but put together a bunch of airplane owners and you'll never find a cheaper group, who want to put in as little effort as possible and expect maximum benefit, and maximum returns. In some ways aviation is really out of touch with how people get together and how to organize, and at the end of it crack the whip so we start seeing more of our interests pressed.

Some things that need to be done:

1) More volunteers, doing more of the un-fun jobs. I hate to say it, but put together a flying related event and you'll have a hundred volunteers to fly airplanes and no one to do the other stuff. I figure for every airplane you're going to have giving fun rides, you're going to need two people on the ground herding the cats. Handling the public sucks but its necessary if you want results. The more people you got on this end the smoother it will run and the better feeling people will walk away with. Remember, your prime objective is a good PR hit, if you have fun doing it, that's a side benefit.

2) More follow up. Especially in this day and age, you got to be doing stuff to get people's attention. The other thing that you see with a lot of flying events that could bring in more people is it really comes off as a one shot thing. Gets advertised the month before (if you're lucky) and boom its done, nothing until next year. One thing a year at the airport just simply isn't good enough to keep people engaged. If you're going to have only one thing a year, you got to find a way to keep people's minds on it. Kids are the big way to get through. Dish out toys and souveniers. Something they'll see later. Make sure pictures are taken, dammit use that intardnet.

3) Websites. Holy crap Websites!!! People UPDATE YOUR WEBSITES! People hit these things but they got to stay active. By far of any activity, aviation websites are generally terrible. These are the things people are going to see these days, especially if they're looking to go farther. I should say that of any service, General aviation has the worst web coverage. I can almost go to any flight school, flying club, COPA chapter website and find stuff that's terrible with it. No contact info, not up to date, no new content, clunky menus, bad cut and paste jobs, you name it. Spelling errors, my God the spelling it hurts when pilots do it!

4) Publicize! If good aviation stuff happens around your area, make sure it gets in the paper. Whenever someone is helped by a medevac, found by a SAR plane, or kids get rides, make sure it gets in the news in the best possible light. Scour your paper. These places are breeding grounds for anti-aviation sentiment. If there's a letter to the editor complaining about airplanes, make sure you respond. Make sure everyone who benefits from airplanes responds.

Get to work people!

[Indanao]

Have an Open Bar.

[trey kule]

First Tom, I would like to hear your suggestions on what we can do that is proactive......

Secondly...can someone in YYC who has an airplane PM Martin and take the kid up for a ride. The darned fences keep kids like him from hanging around trying to snag rides by washing planes, cleaning floors etc, and over the years I have seen kids like that become the best pilots and AMEs around.

I am not sure aviation is really much more expensive today in relative terms. When I was a kid we made $1.00 an hour...12 hours work for an hour in a little plane. Today both the pay and the costs are 10x what they were.
I think part of the problem is the fences. Kids cant get near planes at the airport. You can fly around the world and never see the outside of an airliner. Every time our military folks fly outside their discrete airspace, someone screams about the cost and the media jumps in.

Can someone come up with suggestions how to get the kids nowadays on the other side of the fence?
Let them get up close and personal to a Hawk, a Herc, or a 18. Let them see the cockpit of an airliner. Let them even sit in a 172. I will have time come next winter to volunteer if anyone has any good suggestions

[Beefitarian]

One of the schools used to have a trailer with a cockpit mock up they would drive to the mall to help spread the word about the pending pilot shortage. We could even fit one with a couple of flat screens and a PC running flight sim. How does that sound?

[Shiny Side Up]

To be fair though, some of those fences went up because some people couldn't make their kids behave, and well some of the adults weren't any better than the kids. The problem escalated when the houses encroached upon the airport. Here anyways.

Personally I donate my time at least a dozen times a year taking kids for tours of the airport and occasionally giving rides in planes. Its been tougher though as time goes on. Fewer of the kids are interested, and heaven forbid anyone keep some order with the little shaved apes. Its somewhat rewarding when you see some take some interest, And once in a blue moon, one of them asks a question besides whether I've crashed an airplane before.

Kids don't want to do anything for a ride anymore though, and I've had a few parents shout at me at the concept of me putting their kids to work. Ah well.

One of the schools used to have a trailer with a cockpit mock up they would drive to the mall to help spread the word about the pending pilot shortage. We could even fit one with a couple of flat screens and a PC running flight sim. How does that sound?

Personally I prefer the Nanton museum's dorsal turret trailer.

[Tom H]

First Tom, I would like to hear your suggestions on what we can do that is proactive......

Certainly

My comments come from a family history in aviation going back to 1939 with my father.
Years of working with the public
Having done hundreds of events related to aviation (yes hundreds) and worked with others on many more.
Having worked with kids constantly over the last couple decades in the Museum and classes.

So I think I have a pretty good handle on things

First:

Far too many in the Aviation community need to put aside personal agendas and interests, for a time, and work together. It is the only way we are going to see long term change and things get better.

Be friendly...it costs nothing

This has been killing us more than anything else in my opinion.

Second:

As much as you can get involved as much as is reasonable given individual circumstance:
(if everyone does a little it makes a difference)

Go talk to a Grade 6 school class, a scout group, an air cadet squadron
Go to fly ins and be open to the public, rather than just rope off your plane and hang with the gang.
Get involved in a COPA for Kids or EAA Young Eagles day once or twice a year

Get involved with the group, association or unofficial gang of your choice that opens doors to others and support them.

You would not believe the difference these things will make if enough get involved and they don't take much time or any money you wouldn't be spending flying anyway.

Third:
If you have the time and passion (and not everyone does due to different circumstances)

Volunteer at events, associations...heck if their is one around you an Aviation Museum.

If you really have the bug help work an event or two!

Four:

If you get approached by the media...educate them, they are not out to get you and most poor reporting comes from ZERO knowledge. Help them out with "safe" information you are comfortable with, educate them and help them get it right.

If we just get this far...just this far, it will make a huge change in how people look at the community as a whole, it will make it far easier to get people of all ages involved and make the community a lot more popular.

At the same time the REAL FACTS will get out about aviation at all levels.

That would be a great start.

If you are already doing this stuff...thank you I appreciate it, now get your buds to.

Tom

[Tom H]

Shiny Side Up

To be fair though, some of those fences went up because some people couldn't make their kids behave, and well some of the adults weren't any better than the kids. The problem escalated when the houses encroached upon the airport. Here anyways.

I can't disagree....but I also can't remember the last time a saw a pilot "invite" an enthusiastic pre teen to look at their aircraft on the other side of the fence. I'm sure guys do and I remember seeing it, but I can't remember the last time I saw it.

To those that still do (I know you're out there)....thank you, it makes a huge difference.

Personally I donate my time at least a dozen times a year taking kids for tours of the airport and occasionally giving rides in planes. Its been tougher though as time goes on

Thank you!

Fewer of the kids are interested

Fewer kids are interested because they are not exposed to it! They don't know all they know is going to grandmas on the people tube. They don't care cause they don't know anything about it...that's our job, give them information, share the passion and get them excited.

Fewer of the kids are interested, and heaven forbid anyone keep some order with the little shaved apes.

It's a problem every where, but one that can be dealt with. But as a parent and running a museum trust me I sympathize.

Its somewhat rewarding when you see some take some interest

That is when I know we are winning.

Tom H