Seneca Crash at CYPQ

[pto]

On Feb 3rd, "the airport manager at Peterborough, ON (CYPQ) reported a disabled aircraft on the runway and issued a NOTAM closing CYPQ runways. On a subsequent telephone call opening the runways, it was learned that disabled the aircraft, a Seneca College of Applied Arts and Technology Cessna 172S (C-GSCS) had an accident while on a local VFR flight from Peterborough, ON (CYPQ). The single person on board was not injured and the aircraft experienced some damage."

Link to the Cadors Report: http://goo.gl/vmMY4t

[e300d]

How is this a crash?

from cador: Damage:Minor

PTO -

[pto]

How is this a crash?

from cador: Damage:Minor

From cador...Aircraft Event Information: Collision with terrain

I'm no expert, but I think when you collide with terrain, that's considered a crash, regardless of how much damage is caused?

Definition of Crash
verb: crash; 3rd person present: crashes; past tense: crashed; past participle: crashed; gerund or present participle: crashing

1. (of a vehicle) collide violently with an obstacle or another vehicle.
"the stolen car she was riding in crashed into a tree"
synonyms: smash into, collide with, be in collision with, hit, strike, ram, cannon into, plow into, meet head-on, run into, impact More

[PilotDAR]

I think when you collide with terrain, that's considered a crash, regardless of how much damage is caused?

Um, then I crash every time I land, but I have never damaged a plane doing it. It's the "violent" in the definition cited, which is the key to "crash".

I have no idea what happened in Peterborough, but perhaps a review of the CARs definitions of "accident" and "incident" the correct application of those terms would put the event in context...

[trey kule]

Um, then I crash every time I land, but I have never damaged a plane doing it. It's the "violent" in the definition cited, which is the key to "crash".

Violent..?..so your landings are textbook crashes....just clarifying

To the original poster. Go upstairs and visit your parents, go outside and get some fresh air. Ask yourself why you thought it was so important to post about this world changing event.

Minor damage and injury....shit happens, and there is no "learning" here. Pure gossip.

[PilotDAR]

Violent..?..so your landings are textbook crashes

Oh yeah! You should see some of the badly damaged air molecules, Smashed blades of grass, and heaven help me, worn rubber. After 23 years of landings in my 150, I even had to replace the tires four years ago!

[rigpiggy]

I remember tower getting a little bent out of shape when I replied to "intentions please" was an hour of crash and dash

[PilotDAR]

hour of crash and dash

Runway, or parking lot?

[rigpiggy]

Both the landing strip and in Arizona.....s

[C-FABH]

How is this a crash?

from cador: Damage:Minor

From cador...Aircraft Event Information: Collision with terrain

I'm no expert, but I think when you collide with terrain, that's considered a crash, regardless of how much damage is caused?

Definition of Crash
verb: crash; 3rd person present: crashes; past tense: crashed; past participle: crashed; gerund or present participle: crashing

1. (of a vehicle) collide violently with an obstacle or another vehicle.
"the stolen car she was riding in crashed into a tree"
synonyms: smash into, collide with, be in collision with, hit, strike, ram, cannon into, plow into, meet head-on, run into, impact More

It's been updated to more accurately state "Hard landing"

No reason to get bent out of shape, if I only had $0.05 each time a CADOR was incorrect

[pelmet]

A14O0017: The Seneca College Cessna 172 (C-GSCS) was operating in the circuit at Peterborough Airport (CYPQ) with a solo student pilot. During landing on runway 27 directional control of the aircraft was lost. The aircraft exited the runway surface along the south side and proceeded through accumulated snow. The aircraft subsequently tipped causing the left wing, propeller and cowl to impact the snow before coming to rest in an upright position. The pilot was uninjured, however the aircraft received substantial damage.

I do not think that a 172 is that difficult to handle. Maybe there is more to the story like strong crosswinds or runway conditions. Meanwhile, Brantford had a 172 damaged on takeoff. I guess that the common link is student pilot.

A14O0018: The Brantford Flying Club Cessna Cessna 172 (C-GJNN) was operating on a local flight at Brantford Municipal Airport (CYFD) with a student pilot. During the takeoff roll on runway 23, the pilot lost directional control of the aircraft. The aircraft left the runway surface along the southern edge coming into contact with snow before pitching onto the nose and right wing and coming to rest inverted. The pilot was uninjured however the aircraft was substantially damaged.

[MIQ]

I do not think that a 172 is that difficult to handle. Maybe there is more to the story like strong crosswinds or runway conditions. Meanwhile, Brantford had a 172 damaged on takeoff. I guess that the common link is student pilot.

I was flying that day in the area. It was clear skies with basically no wind, definitely no crosswind on Peterborough's runway...

[Colonel Sanders]

common link is student pilots

... that haven't been taught how to use the rudder pedals.

It's not a steering wheel:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94664

I know I am old-fashioned for trying to promote
basic stick & rudder skills in our wonderful new age
where pilots are "systems managers", but ...

sometimes it can be useful, to be able to hand-fly an aircraft.

[Rookie50]

common link is student pilots

... that haven't been taught how to use the rudder pedals.

It's not a steering wheel:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94664

I know I am old-fashioned for trying to promote
basic stick & rudder skills in our wonderful new age
where pilots are "systems managers", but ...

sometimes it can be useful, to be able to hand-fly an aircraft.

During my ppl I did the excercise from downwind (on a crosswind day) of doing the approach without touching the control column. Rudder, trim and power. I got it to the threshold, under control. Its a good excercise to demonstrate the power of the rudder.

[Colonel Sanders]

Given that you own a SEL Cessna which are well-known
to have control column failures after faulty maintenance ...

That's a realistic emergency procedure for you to practice.

Bonus points: you can do it without the rudder. How?

[Blakey]

Given that you own a SEL Cessna which are well-known
to have control column failures after faulty maintenance ...

That's a realistic emergency procedure for you to practice.

Bonus points: you can do it without the rudder. How?

What if I'm in an L-19 or a 190? Only one door! Guess I can still turn right!

[Colonel Sanders]

Yup

A right 270 is about the same as a left 90 except
for the lateral displacement.

That may sound stupid, but I've had to do that on the
ground in a strong wind with a soft brake

[Blakey]

Wait till you try floats!

Float pilots are masters of energy conservation and the useful exploitation of inertia. It's like doing a stall turn to the right, it helps to hold a little left rudder on the vertical to give you a head start against the torque.

[Shiny Side Up]

That may sound stupid, but I've had to do that

It's ok, we've all known for a long time that you're not an ambiturner.

[iflyforpie]

Damn.... you beat me to that post SSU!


There were lots of events in my early aviationhood that made me scared of certain types of airplanes. There was a whole string of mangled float planes (one from a former instructor of mine) that made me scared of seaplanes. There were numerous ground loops that made me scared of taildraggers.

Before I went solo, a student put a 172 that I had just flown upside down in the snow on the side of a 200ft wide runway... just like what happened here.

But as I gain more and more experience, I am finding it is not the airplane type, but the pilot type and the training they received.

[Rookie50]

Well not too long ago I had to take off from a wide runway in a strong crosswind -- this was interesting because it was supposed to have been treated.

The ramp and taxiways were not treated and solid ice -- I did my runup right on the runway before takeoff and didnt move -- but on the roll just before rotation, I definately felt the beginning of lateral movement as the wheels got light -- not a pleasant sensation so got it off the ground before it got more interesting. You could see how it could happen on nasty surface.

[PilotDAR]

Bonus points: you can do it without the rudder. How?

Okay, I guess that we've established that we'll open a door, to assist in directional control. Yes, it works. But, in your single Cessna (not a Cardinal) you open the left door a few inches, and the plane turns - which way does it turn?

[Colonel Sanders]

strong crosswind ...solid ice

Not sure what the problem is. Take off and
land in a crab, for either nosewheel or tailwheel.

It's really easy.

[PilotDAR]

It's time for a video, let's see how it posts from photobucket...

This is in the mighty C 150, and begins with a landing on ice with about a 15 knot tailwind, then a cross wind, finally finishing in a headwind.
Nope, the link did not work. Any suggestions to post a video which is in photobucket?

[burhead1]

It's time for a video, let's see how it posts from photobucket...

This is in the mighty C 150, and begins with a landing on ice with about a 15 knot tailwind, then a cross wind, finally finishing in a headwind.
Nope, the link did not work. Any suggestions to post a video which is in photobucket?

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