When is ADS-B coverage coming to Canada?

[CFMEA]

Hi Folks,

I've been searching the Internet, trying to find out when ADS-B coverage will be coming to Canada. This seems like such a great solution for Canadian airspace, but NavCanada seems fairly silent on the topic. Yes, I know there is coverage over the Hudsons Bay area for specially registered aircraft. However, this 'special coverage' has been in place for quite some time, and there have been no announcements about creating an ADS-B space over Canada. Oddly enough, the US has been very aggressive about creating ADS-B coverage for the entire continental US over the past couple of years, and appears almost complete in this task.

Does anyone out there know anything about the NavCanada plans for ADS-B coverage in the near future?

Cheers,

CFMEA

A P-Navajo is NOT a PA-31! Completely different aircraft/airframe/engines!

[photofly]

May G-d bless ADS-B, and keep ADS-B .... far away from us!

['97 Tercel]

I think it has to be everywhere by 2020 - in the US for sure, I assume Canada as well.

[nbinont]

I've been searching the Internet, trying to find out when ADS-B coverage will be coming to Canada.

It's basically on an "as needed" basis right now. There's some ADS-B coverage primarily for high level airspace over Hudson's Bay. Nothing beyond that.

There's plans to have satellite ADS-B coverage in 2016 (or thereabouts). This, in theory could give Canada wide coverage - however I'm not sure the traffic requirements - it may be mostly for northern airspace at first.

I think it has to be everywhere by 2020 - in the US for sure, I assume Canada as well.

As for a regulatory requirement for ADS-B, there is none (except for that bit of high level airspace over Hudson's Bay), and there is no deadline date planned at the moment. I can't see it becoming required until much later than in the US.

[AirFrame]

By the time it's legislated in Canada, it will be in the same boat 406MHz ELT's are now: Superseded by better technology, and painfully expensive for a private owner to install.

[complexintentions]

nbinont,

Could you show the reference to these plans for satellite ADS-B coverage please? I know that Iridium has talked about putting up some receivers one day, but as far as I know, all current ADS-B systems are ground-based only. There is the older ADS-C which uses satellite communication but that's not the same thing.

ADS-B is used in the Hudson's Bay area in Canada mainly because it's cheaper to implement than radar coverage, and has some possible advantages in future implementation (i.e. two-way comms with ground, enhanced TCAS functions). But I would guess there is no rush to install it where there is already good radar coverage in the southern airspace.

I just used it in CYEG a couple days ago incidentally, on a polar crossing to DXB.

[aileron]

AvWeb's recent release, March 29 2014 Space-Based Tracking System Launches in 2017

The company doing it: Aerion

[turbo-prop]

Here is nav canada's link

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/products-an ... ads-b.aspx

[Stephen Szikora]

Process of implementation may speed up now that IATA is meeting to discuss industry response to MH370 disappearance. Perhaps satellite-based ADS-B is part of the solution.

http://www.airtrafficmanagement.net/201 ... ian-mh370/

(link has annoying music - turn speakers down first)

[ogopogo]

AvWeb's recent release, March 29 2014 Space-Based Tracking System Launches in 2017

The company doing it: Aerion

This is correct - NavCanada has invested (financially) in Aireon. Aireon will provide ADS-B coverage to various ATC organizations via the Iridium NEXT series of satellites, currently being assembled at Orbital Sciences in Arizona. Each satellite (there will be 66 of them in polar orbit, thus giving global coverage) will carry a receiver dessigned to detect and process incoming ADS-B signals from aircraft within the satellite's footprint.

[ahramin]

Anyone know if these satellites will work for UAT implementations or only 1090ES?

[ogopogo]

Anyone know if these satellites will work for UAT implementations or only 1090ES?

Not sure, but I do know they are 'listening' on 1090 MHz only, I think.

Here is an interview with Don Thoma, CEO or Aireon:

http://www.spacenews.com/article/featur ... ive-aireon

[complexintentions]

Interesting. It will be more compelling if/when it actually exists, to be honest. I think ADS-B is the way of the future, not as sold on the satellites. Considering the territorial infighting that goes on within existing ATC structures in many places in the world I think the hurdle will be (besides financial) mainly political. Which countries are willing to cede control of the data that controls their airspace to a third-party private company? I mean here in the UAE, Dubai can't even agree with Abu Dhabi which airspace each should control. The same goes on in Eurocontrol. And the various former Soviet states. But everyone will pay to share the same set of satellites? Hmm.

Technologically, it makes sense. But I do note the launch date has already been pushed back from 2015 to 2017.

If I sound doubtful, it's because I am. The places that need satellite coverage already have it - and hardly suffer from high traffic densities anyway ("busy polar routes"? I don't think so.) They certainly aren't that plentiful compared to overland routes that could install ground stations much more cheaply. Why would the Australians, for example, pay to use this system when they already have a serviceable ground-based system - which they have control over - in place? Canada could easily have country-wide coverage for less cost with a ground-based solution, phasing out radar sites and replacing them with ADS-B receivers as they go, and co-locating them in the interim. I mean when flight tracking websites will sell you a receiver for a grand that feeds into the system, it tends to call into question the necessity for a space-based solution other than in a few remote locations. Make no mistake, I like fancy tech, but it seems like a solution in search of a problem. A more pressing concern would be the looming issues with GPS navigation, with talk now of bringing back LORAN stations, for Pete's sake.

A joint venture by several air navigation services to provide space-based air traffic control of aircraft flying beyond radar range could conceivably make it a lot harder to lose flights like MH370.

Sure. How? As long as someone is willfully circumventing technology, it doesn't really make any difference what that technology that is. If they disabled their ADS-B, it wouldn't matter what was listening, a satellite or ground station.

Sounds more like a sales pitch trying to exploit the missing flight. Lame.

[nbinont]

Could you show the reference to these plans for satellite ADS-B coverage please?

Technical status report/business case here: http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Public ... TCH_EN.pdf

[co-joe]

For one I think it is the missing link in terms of global weather data collection. No more pireps just collect air data at will from every single aircraft in the air simultaneously. Imagine the forecast modelling that would make possible. Once that data has been processed maybe you really could take advantage of it in terms of massive fuel savings with routings. Especially over the oceans and poles where there are few surface based observations.

[photofly]

Air data is currently collected by NOAA from various commercial carriers under the AMDAR program:
http://amdar.noaa.gov/FAQ.html

Regrettably, it's considered commercially sensitive data and not made available to the public.

[co-joe]

The model and data may not be used to develop products or services for sale.

So do they use the data to aid real time weather forecasting?

[ogopogo]

Which countries are willing to cede control of the data that controls their airspace to a third-party private company?

So far, Canada, Portugal, the UK, Italy, Ireland, Denmark. I know the CEO of Aireon personally, and he tells me that their business case closes even if their ANSP customers just cover the North Atlantic only. Which seems to be the case. Isn't anything better than no coverage at all?

Not sure what control is being 'ceded'. The ANSPs will still control traffic in their respective areas. They will buy data from Aireon to help them plan more efficient routing.

[jump154]

I cannot find the article, but I read recently in Aviation Week that NavCanada's focus was using the satellite service to enhance North Atlantic traffic. The impression I got is there is no plan to do a US-style ADS-B rollout for the rest of us.

Focus is all on saving fuel costs for the airlines (which is a laudable goal)

[photofly]

He's imagining a "Die Hard" scenario where wicked terrorists reprogram the ILS to make planes crash short of the runway - no wait, they did that one already - I mean wicked terrorists reprogram the ADS-B data to make airplanes crash into each other over the ocean.