Flow delays YYC

[Tacoma001]

Well it's Wednesday, therefor flow delays into YYC. 8kts of wind and a 28 000 foot ceiling with no significant weather for 1000's of miles. What's going on with ATC there? Do they ever have to answer as to why they're instituting these delays?

[PositiveRate27]

I was based there last year, lots of flow. What's the active runway?

[cyeg66]

Hey Tacoma001, you ever wonder why they're building a parallel? (...cue Jeopardy music....)

[PointyEngine]

He brings up a valid point. Great weather yesterday, wasn't busy on arrival and still a large flow delay... I understand it may not have seemed busy because of flow, but somedays you just shake your head and ask what the hang...

[CpnCrunch]

At YVR there seem to be IFR flow delays and delays/restrictions for VFR traffic entering class C airspace pretty much any time it's a sunny day and one of the ATC staff is off sick. It's basically just Nav Canada not employing enough people.

[cyeg66]

No, it's not a valid point. Qualify "not busy on arrival". Here's a fun fact, YYC is the only airport in Canada currently incapable of handling demand at certain points mid-week in VMC weather conditions. Again, why the parallel if it's only a matter of ATC being lazy or understaffed? I've said it for years, you pilot types should insinuate yourselves in the centre on a busy mid-week day and impart your wisdom with us. We'd love to see how you could make things more efficient all the while working within the constraints of (restrictive) Canadian air Reg's. Should make for an interesting exchange. Next, I'll visit you on the flight deck and tell you how you could do things better. See you in the near future.

[cyeg66]

Just tell yourselves: "2 more months to go". Then it becomes a simpleton's operation with plenty o' capacity.

[ahramin]

2 more months? Didn't realize it was so close to completion.

Are they lengthening 28 or 25 at all?

[co-joe]

It's cause the wx is nice and the fcst for the weekend is shit so controllers are taking their days off now. That's what reduced system capacity means. Throw in a little work to rule and you have the worst use of airspace in north america...

[CpnCrunch]

Again, why the parallel if it's only a matter of ATC being lazy or understaffed? I've said it for years, you pilot types should insinuate yourselves in the centre on a busy mid-week day and impart your wisdom with us.

Well at YVR it definitely does seem to be understaffing on sunny days. Not saying this is a factor at YYC. Certainly the runway is likely to be a major factor there.

Anyway, doesn't really bother me - I mostly bomb around VFR in uncontrolled airspace and just feel sorry for the IFR traffic sitting waiting for their clearances.

[Lateralus]

No, it's not a valid point. Qualify "not busy on arrival". Here's a fun fact, YYC is the only airport in Canada currently incapable of handling demand at certain points mid-week in VMC weather conditions. Again, why the parallel if it's only a matter of ATC being lazy or understaffed? I've said it for years, you pilot types should insinuate yourselves in the centre on a busy mid-week day and impart your wisdom with us. We'd love to see how you could make things more efficient all the while working within the constraints of (restrictive) Canadian air Reg's. Should make for an interesting exchange. Next, I'll visit you on the flight deck and tell you how you could things better. See you in the near future.

You ATC types should take a trip south of the border, you would be embarrassed. And blah blah about the parallel in YYC, its only what 20 years too late? Oh and remember when the new runway opens the other one is closed. Bravo.

[tbaylx]

No, it's not a valid point. Qualify "not busy on arrival". Here's a fun fact, YYC is the only airport in Canada currently incapable of handling demand at certain points mid-week in VMC weather conditions. Again, why the parallel if it's only a matter of ATC being lazy or understaffed? I've said it for years, you pilot types should insinuate yourselves in the centre on a busy mid-week day and impart your wisdom with us. We'd love to see how you could make things more efficient all the while working within the constraints of (restrictive) Canadian air Reg's. Should make for an interesting exchange. Next, I'll visit you on the flight deck and tell you how you could things better. See you in the near future.

You ATC types should take a trip south of the border, you would be embarrassed. And blah blah about the parallel in YYC, its only what 20 years too late? Oh and remember when the new runway opens the other one is closed. Bravo.

Guess you missed the part about the restrictive Canadian Air regs.....flow delays into YYC have nothing to do the the controllers, who do a fine job. To many aircraft with not enough runways until all the construction is done.

[16SidedOffice]

"work to rule" LOL... typical uninformed assumption.

[Nark]

Sorry to break the theme of this thread but,

Is there an exchange program where the controllers can jumpseat on the 705 carriers?

We have on down here, where the controllers sit in our Jumpseat and see what we do and go through. Not just a bitchfest on a forum, they've implemented some changes to arrivals because of the workload. ABQ comes to mind, as well as the RNAV arrivals into DEN and DC.
Perhaps a motivator could get that program set up.



http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/04/20/ai ... ntrollers/

[cyeg66]

You ATC types should take a trip south of the border, you would be embarrassed.

Yeah, sure, whatever you say. There's embarrassment here somewhere, that much I agree with you.

And blah blah about the parallel in YYC, its only what 20 years too late?

Well, which is it? Is the parallel needed because too many planes want to use pavement at the same time or is it that the controllers are clueless (clearly) and don't know how to push tin like the "Amarrikins"? Can't have it both ways.

Oh and remember when the new runway opens the other one is closed. Bravo.

Don't think so. Go find updated info.

It's cause the wx is nice and the fcst for the weekend is shit so controllers are taking their days off now. That's what reduced system capacity means. Throw in a little work to rule and you have the worst use of airspace in north america...

The aforementioned embarrassment....

[cyeg66]

Well at YVR it definitely does seem to be understaffing on sunny days. Not saying this is a factor at YYC. Certainly the runway is likely to be a major factor there.

Correct on all 3 counts.

[cyeg66]

2 more months? Didn't realize it was so close to completion.

Are they lengthening 28 or 25 at all?

June 28th. To my knowledge, 29/26 won't be extended. Heck, at this point, I'd be surprised if 26 continued to be a runway at all and not just used as a taxiway from aprons 3,4,5.

[AirMail]

I can't believe how dumb and arrogant pilots are, makes me ashamed to be cast into the whole lot of you. Before spouting off, get the facts, and go see things from ATC side of things. Personally I hope for continued flow just so you get what you deserve.

[Aeroplane17]

Sorry to break the theme of this thread but,

Is there an exchange program where the controllers can jumpseat on the 705 carriers?

We have on down here, where the controllers sit in our Jumpseat and see what we do and go through. Not just a bitchfest on a forum, they've implemented some changes to arrivals because of the workload. ABQ comes to mind, as well as the RNAV arrivals into DEN and DC.
Perhaps a motivator could get that program set up.



http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/04/20/ai ... ntrollers/

Negative. Here in Canada Air Canada decides our STARS eg. YYZ. Controllers and every other pilot hates them but some nerdy engineer figured that's what is best for AC so everyone needs to confirm to these inefficient, pain in the ass STARS.

Heard one day in YYZ an AC aircraft inbound on a dead day asked if he could go direct the IAF. The controller said "nope, this is what you're company wanted with the new stars, this is what you'll get" - nothing but silence on the other end.

[Krimson]

Heard one day in YYZ an AC aircraft inbound on a dead day asked if he could go direct the IAF. The controller said "nope, this is what you're company wanted with the new stars, this is what you'll get" - nothing but silence on the other end.

I get that controllers might not like something just as much as us, but I really don't get the hostility. We're both trying to get the job done as efficient as able, why not work together.
Luckily the majority are pretty good and there's just a few who seem like it's their goal to ruin your day. The guys at YYC do a good job getting everyone in, and 90% of the time the flow delay is under 10min, seems rather pointless.

[16SidedOffice]

You ATC types should take a trip south of the border, you would be embarrassed.

Embarrassed about ? 2.5,3,4,5 or 6 miles is the same here or there.

[PointyEngine]

What is the current game plan with the runways in YYC? Are they going to shut 35L once 35R is operational??

[Diadem]

Why isn't 26 used more frequently? It seems like its use would significantly improve arrivals on VMC days when 29 is in use. I've requested 26 on a severe-clear day with the field in sight from twenty miles back, and it was refused; I ended up number four in the sequence for 29 and had to slow down by fifty knots.

[cyeg66]

Transport (to all of our collective chagrin) says no more three runway circus. End of story.

[arctic_slim]

I don't see the problem with Flow control. If there is flow, I will call and get a time, that's it. Nothing I can do about it. I anything it delays my arrival into (usually) shitty weather back in CYYC.
The controllers do an awesome job as far as I have seen. I was also told that 2 runways at a time is the max now which is fine I think. Pilots and controllers work together to get everyone on the ground safely.
Once that new runway opens up its gonna be a goat show. I wonder how many times we will see planes be cleared for 17L and line up with 17R out of habit. I'm a little worried about that myself.