Fake pilot ads

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Pilots in Canada

Before a company can apply to import foreign pilots as Temporary Foreign Workers, they must legally advertise the jobs for 4 weeks on industry publications and on either Job Bank or on one of the similar Provincially run Websites.

Often these ads are fake, in the sense that these companies have no intention of hiring you. They have already decided to hire a foreigner for the jobs and sometimes already contracted the foreigner out. The ad is just published because it is a condition ESDC has for approving the Labour Market Opinion, the process by which these foreigners are hired.

As I write these words, Job Bank has 56 ads for pilots in Canada:

http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/job_search_res ... 271&sort=M

If you suspect you are qualified for a job posted here but were overlooked in favor of a TFW, ESDC want to hear from you.

http://www.edsc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_ ... ndex.shtml

Abuse of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program will not be tolerated. To report misuse or abuse, contact:

Service Canada Confidential Tip Line
1-866-602-9448
integrity@servicecanada.gc.ca
Anonymous tips can also be provided to the Employer Contact Centre: 1-800-367-5693

If you want to know if a particluar company made a request for a foreign worker, you have to fill out an access to information request and mail it to ESDC. It costs $5.

Here is how to do it:

http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/transparency/ ... uest.shtml

Before a company can apply for a TFW, it must run the add 4 weeks. So wait at least for 4 weeks after the ad was posted before sending in your ATIP request, or else your request may arrive before the ATIP application from the employer.

But don't wait for that to let ESDC know that you are qualified for an advertised job if you suspect that this company is planning to hire foreign pilots. I will later post here a list of all Canadian Companies that hired TFW pilots in the past.

Canadian flying jobs for Canadians.


Gilles Hudicourt

[Gilles Hudicourt]

These are employers who submitted requests to ESDC for TFW pilots since 2012. Anyone wanting to see the actual LMO applications and the reasons provided by these employers for needing a foreign pilot, they are here in this huge document which you are free to download and distribute..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... 202013.pdf

AgMAx Ltd
Air Labrador Ltd
Aurora Helicopters Ltd
AVTi
Bailey Helicopters Ltd
Battlefords Airspray
Bluebird Flight Academy Inc (this one was unable to find a Canadian Flight Instructor)
Bombardier Aerospace
CAE Inc
Canadian Air Crane Ltd
Canadian Armed Forces
Canadian Helicopters Ltd
Canjet (also known as I.M.P. Group Ltd)
Capiltale Helicoptère Inc
Cloud9 Airspray Ltd
CMR Aerial Survey
Coastal Conservation Inc.
ControlCam LLC
Construction Helicopters Ltd
Coulson Aircrane Ltd
Court Air Services
Diamond Aircraft Industries Ltd
Eley Air Service Ltd
Exact Air Inc
Erickson Air Crane Inc.
Fast Trucking Services Ltd
Fireweed Helicopters Ltd
Fox Quebec Productions Ltd
GMR Aerial Surveys
Great Slave Helicopters Ltd
Guardian Helicopters Limited Partnership
Heli Explore Inc
Heli Source Ltd
Hydravion Aventure
Island Coastal Aviation
J.B. Air Inc
Kapowsin Air Sports Ltd
Ken Kane Aerial Spray Ltd
Kevin Hruska
Kindersley Airspray Ltd
Knelsen Rock Products Ltd
Lachute Aviation
London Air Services Ltd
Midfield Enterprises Ltd
MRR Development Group
Niagara Helicopters Ltd
Noralta Aviation
Novatem Inc
Oliver's Arrow Films Inc.
Pacific Western Helicopters Ltd
ParaQuebec Inc
Phoenix Heli-Flight Inc
Photo Science Ltd
Precision West Ag Corp (DBA Ag Pilot)
Prism Helicopter Ltd
Provincial Airways
Qwest Helicopter Ltd
Sky Ag Services Ltd
Sky Regional Airlines
Skyservice Business Aviation Inc
Sunwing Airlines
Surdex Corporation
Target Airspray Ltd
TCF Van Prod Ltd
The Atlantic Group LLC
Trinity Helicopters
Valhalla Helicopters Ltd
Westman Aerial Spray Ltd
Westwind Airspray Ltd
Wetaskiwin Aerial Applicators Ltd
Wolverine
Wood Buffalo Helicopters


To be continued......

[ScudRunner]

Wolverine as in Fort Simpson Wolverine???? no one out there to fly a 206 to trout lake??? you gotta be shitting me.


Edit: ah ok I was going to say that would be complete lunacy.

[snoopy]

No, Wolverine is the dba name. The legal name is TCF Van Prod Ltd. and the LMO is for a helicopter pilot.

Interesting is that many of the LMO applications are for several pilots, some are for "permanent" positions, and others are for many years. Also interesting is that many companies already have a pool of foreign workers on staff, and are looking to increase the number. Many of the positions do not have valid specialty requirements or high hours requirements either.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[trey kule]

Often these ads are fake, in the sense that these companies have no intention of hiring you. They have already decided to hire a foreigner for the jobs and sometimes already contracted the foreigner out.

That is quite the claim. Can you provide specific examples.

[Shiny Side Up]

That some of these places couldn't find Canadian pilots willing to work for them is a good sign. It says the pilots in this country are smartening up.

[cough]bluebird[/cough]

[Bede]

Often these ads are fake, in the sense that these companies have no intention of hiring you. They have already decided to hire a foreigner for the jobs and sometimes already contracted the foreigner out.

That is quite the claim. Can you provide specific examples.

That's really common. Company finds applicant, tailors the job description to their qualifications and then places an ad. I got some email notice of a vacancy at WJ for EVP ops. Unfortunately I didn't qualify- something about an MBA, a history of cost control.

[Jean-Luc Monette]

So, let me get this straight.

There are two ways of getting a commercial pilot's licence; 1) either you or your parents pay for it with money on which Income Tax has been paid or 2) you go to a Government funded college (for which part of our Income Tax pay for), and after many years of hardship building hours in order to be qualifiable for a jet job, you can't even apply because company A, B or C (seems to go down to ZZZ in this case) uses an inadequate Government program in order to avoid the cost of doing business, because its business model is so flawed that in order to think about being profitable, they can't afford to pay type ratings like the rest of the companies???

[trey kule]

That's really common. Company finds applicant, tailors the job description to their qualifications and then places an ad. I got some email notice of a vacancy at WJ for EVP ops. Unfortunately I didn't qualify- something about an MBA, a history of cost control.

I am not disputing the claim at this point. But it is a serious one, and I would expect that Mr. h would not make such a claim without specific examples to back it up.
Which is what I asked for. It is fair comment to publish examples. And I assume no one would start a thread entitled fake pilot ads, without substantiation.

On the other hand, I have noticed on other similar threads, some unsubstantiated claims put forth , and posters jumping on them as if they were fact. Companies claimed to be doing illegal things, when, as it turned out, they were not. That is nothing more than muckraking the competition.

But on this subject there appears to be some merit in the concern. Not from the claim of fake ads, but the companies that are requesting foreign pilots. If one can get the facts straight then it is worth pursuing. But claims that do not hold up to scrutiny diminish the credibility of those who may actually have a point.

[azimuthaviation]

http://www.vancouverdesi.com/bccanada/c ... rs/746573/

Count Canadian helicopter pilots among those outraged by the federal government’s troubled temporary foreign worker program.
Pilots say they’re being denied jobs in favour of cheaper temporary foreign workers.1

Dozens of so-called labour market opinion applications for temporary employees from private helicopter companies across Canada say they’re unable to find domestic pilots.
One longtime helicopter pilot says temporary foreign workers are typically paid half of what their Canadian counterparts make, and accuses helicopter operators of capitalizing on the program to increase their profit margins.
He says he applied to several jobs at companies and was told each time there were no openings, only to later learn they had applied for temporary foreign workers.
One aviation industry expert says when companies say they can’t find qualified workers, federal officials are unable to confirm the claims and rarely investigate further.

Gilles Hudicourt, a longtime Air Transat pilot who’s spent years crusading against the temporary foreign worker program in the aviation sector, says “the poor helicopter pilot in Canada” is particularly victimized by system.
Most of them aren’t unionized, he says, and are afraid to complain publicly for fear of being blacklisted by helicopter operators.

I dont get it. You guys vote these guys in because theyre pro business, pro small government, complain about social programs. then when they let the corporations and big business do what they need to do to make money all of a sudden you become left wingers and want the government to intervene to get you your jobs back? Do I have this right?

[1000 HP]

I am a TFW. I was hired because none of the locals had the proper skill-set. I've been working as a TFW for 3 years. Now, the locals are becoming better trained and it looks like my job is done soon. I have an option for one more year, then on to the next job.

But I work in Indonesia. And not as a pilot.

It is hard to believe that we can't find a flight instructor or 206 pilot in the Canadian Pilot Pool. Maybe these companies should up the wages? If they think bringing in a foreign worker is cheap, well good luck to them.

But don't expect me to ever join a union of any kind. I've been there. Some fat cat makes a bunch while asking us to strike for a 23 cent an hour raise. (true story).

[Cessna driver]

A few shockers on that list for me...

[timel]

Gilles this document is astonishing!!!
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/105 ... 202013.pdf


Around pages 700, decouvertair lacking of flight instructors??? Whaat?????

Exactair, who are one of the two worst 702- 703 shitty operator in Quebec requesting foreign workers because they are lacking of pilots? I mean fire patrol needs are 200 hrs pilots and a mono ifr.
Those guys on fire patrols have to pay for there training +3000$ of 182, and than get like 700$ per 2/week with low accomodations and difficult accessible facilities to go buy food sometimes. Not speaking of 703 ops pilot having to get white pages to make advertising on their reserve hours.... And soo on.
And still they get foreign workers. Silly!!!!

St-hubert flying school ... Getting foreign instructor for safety reasons bullshit!!!

I'm getting through that for sure and passing it on!

[timel]

School do have foreign students and than wants to
Make them work, in order to get working visas they have to do a foreign worker application.

Many school get foreign studients promising them a job after that. The way forms are filled is just wrong though. Seems like it's just a way to get your way and have a working job in Canada.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Even the Canadian Forces.

"Wanted: Pilot with military experience on twin engine supersonic jets, must be current". No Canadian would qualify and all our future CF-18 pilots could be TFW.

What I am demonstrating here, is one can always find an excuse to exclude Canadians and there is no one at ESDC with the expertise, the mandate or the time to call the bluff.......

These applications are often approved when they should not.
The Canadian pilots do not know that the employer was wanting to hire foreign workers until after the fact.
the ESDC offiicial who approves the LMO did not know that there were qualified Canadians who applied for the job and were overlooked in favour of the foreigner.

I am proposing that every time an Aircraft Operator applies for an LMO for foreign pilots that the application be made public and published where the general public can see it, before it is approved.
This would allow qualified Canadians to get first shot at these jobs by applying for them in a manner that would let EDSC in the picture.

I think that if the above idea was implemented, it would resolve the majority of the bogus applications we witness here.

It would not resolve case where the company puts in requirements such being checked on type, but that requirement should be excluded. In this industry, companies are the ones who are responsible for training pilots on the type of aircraft their operate. That is how everyone does it. Favoring a foreigner over a Canadian because of a type rating should not be allowed except in very specific and limited cases. But never should an 4000 hour Canadian Belll 206 pilot be turned down in favor of a foreigner because the job is in an Astar.

[Colonel Sanders]

Gilles: you might consider responding to
this "expert" reporter:

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/ ... r-success/

Another counter-argument is that if Canadian companies are short workers, they should just increase wages to create supply. Some probably do if they can, but that’s not always practical. By bringing in foreign workers, businesses can continue to service their customers, keeping their operations competitive and productive

Ummm ....

[azimuthaviation]

Gilles: you might consider responding to
this "expert" reporter:

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/ ... r-success/

Another counter-argument is that if Canadian companies are short workers, they should just increase wages to create supply. Some probably do if they can, but that’s not always practical. By bringing in foreign workers, businesses can continue to service their customers, keeping their operations competitive and productive

Ummm ....

Thats why there were no successful businesses in Canada prior to 2002

[Scuba_Steve]

I love how the pro business crowd always states to "let the market decide", until the market decides the wages etc for the work aren't work it, so instead of increasing wages and improving work conditions they just farm out the work to cheaper labour from overseas....

[AuxBatOn]

"Wanted: Pilot with military experience on twin engine supersonic jets, must be current". No Canadian would qualify and all our future CF-18 pilots could be TFW.

It cost 4 Million$ to train a fighter pilot from scratch.

Take an experienced one, you cut the cost down to 500 000$. Worth it? Absolutely.

[Colonel Sanders]

cheaper labour from overseas

I think they are arguing that it is legal to have
say a Mexican airline fly domestic routes in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabotage#C ... r_aviation

[Colonel Sanders]

It cost 4 Million$ to train a fighter pilot from scratch.

Take an experienced one, you cut the cost down to 500 000$.

I admire your fiscal prudence which is somewhat
of a rare commodity in government.

For perspective, Dalton McGuinty happily blew a BILLION
dollars, moving a gas plant near Toronto, to try to buy
some votes.

A BILLION dollars divided by your $3.5M foreign pilot
delta would have trained 400 Canadian fighter pilots.

My understanding is that Canada trains around ten (10)
fighter pilots a year. That tiny expenditure by Dalton
would have paid for 40 years worth of Canadian fighter
pilots, assuming a zero interest rate (cough).

Keep in mind that just the province of Ontario - not
any other province, not the feds - is carrying a THREE
HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR debt.

Just sayin'.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

It cost 4 Million$ to train a fighter pilot from scratch.

Take an experienced one, you cut the cost down to 500 000$. Worth it? Absolutely.

That is the same argument made by Sunwing. It costs $40,000 to train a non rated Canadian pilot on the B737NG. This is just for a 6 months contract. It's cheaper to import type rated foreign pilots.

However the regulations state that Canadians should get first shot at Canadian jobs and that Canadian employers must make a reasonable effort to hire and/or train Canadians, that foreigners can only be used when there is a labor shortage in Canada and when the hiring of foreigners has a positive or neutral effect on Canada's labor marker.

Nowhere does it say that Canadian companies may import foreigners to save money.

Cuba has thousands of very well trained and qualified Medical Doctors. They earn about $40 per month in Cuba. $ Do you know how much money our Provincial Health Ministries and our Taxpayers would save if we began to ask LMOs for Cuban Doctors to staff our hospitals ? Why waste all these millions training Canadian doctors at taxpayer expense and then paying these same doctors over $200K per year when we can have already trained Cuban doctors and pay them well under what Taxpayer funded trained Canadian doctors cost ?

We must not go there. Companies must not use this program to save money. It was never intented for that purpose.

[AuxBatOn]

CS: So because 1 dude blows money sensessly, it's okay to do it in every department? Great logic...

[angry inch]

Perhaps what the good Colonel is getting at is that there are certain things we don't mind spending our money on... I don't mind having foreign guys/girls coming over here to train our pilots if needed, but I'm happy to be paying for CANADIAN pilots to be operating our equipment.

[stopbar]

I applied to Sunwing for the non-rated seasonal first officer posting, never heard a word from them, in fact I didn't even get an auto reply that my email was even opened.

10+ years experience 4000+ hours experience in management, leadership, multi-crew, command time, maintenance, turbine and more.

Like GH says its just a sham ad!