Air Transat Gear pin oopsie!!

[Chuck Finley]

Anyone?

[pelmet]

Many companies have as their first item on the checklist......

External Check..........Complete-3 pins sighted.

Or 4 pins or even 5

[Chuck Finley]

Transat doesn't?

[Eric Janson]

At an Asian Flag Carrier I offered to do the walk-around while my colleagues set up the cockpit for departure.

Prior to going downstairs I checked the gear pins - 4 present and stowed.

To my surprise Engineering had installed a second set of gear pins - too much trouble to get the ones in the cockpit

I discussed this with the Engineer when he finally came upstairs - he looked pretty uncomfortable - the consequences were very obvious.

Safety department were very slow to act on this - they didn't seem to fully understand my concern.

Always a good idea to have a good look - even with the pins present in the cockpit.


The correct procedure:-

Make an entry in the tech log - then install the gear pins.

Remove and stow the gear pins - then clear the tech log entry.

[Docbrad]

Can you explain to someone, who doesn't fly big aircraft, what the issue is if the pins remain installed? Wouldn't it just prevent the gear from retracting?

[YYCAME]

Lots of fuel/money burned, delayed flight because of the turn around to take it out, and then lots of paperwork to explain it. But yes it just prevents a gear leg from retracting. Also there are speed restrictions for gear down which if exceeded would require additional inspection.

[Chuck Finley]

You could not retract the gears. The result of that is, you would have to fly at a slower speed so not to exceed max. extended gear speed ( depending on the type ). most likely wouldn't fly as high increasing your fuel burn and most likely wouldn't have enough fuel to complete the trip. So you would have to come back and land to remore the pins and refuel costing time and money!!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Leaving on a long flight, you could also be over max landing weight. According to aircraft make and model, that could entail
1) doing an overweight landing procedure with just a logbook entry
2) doing an overweight landing with a maintenance inspection afterwards
3) dumping expensive fuel
4) flying around for a long time burning fuel to avoid #2

I have no idea what we are talking about though, I haven't heard. I found a CADORS about an Air Transat A-310 loosing a pin on the runway while taxiing from the hangar to the ramp on July 16.....

[linecrew]

I have no idea what we are talking about though, I haven't heard. I found a CADORS about an Air Transat A-310 loosing a pin on the runway while taxiing from the hangar to the ramp on July 16.....

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC9 ... /CYYZ/KMCO

[GRK]

Oops…the old PWA/CP Air/CAIL crowd will remember what happens to pilots who forget to check for gear pins on a walk around…and then try to cover it up!

[pelmet]

Might as well give out the details.

[PilotDAR]

Decades ago, I worked for a Canadian B707 operator. One of our flights departed, and after departure asked for routing down through the US, below 10,000 feet, for the first hour. Odd, but okay, and the routing was given. No explanation was offered to ATC. Later word got around that the flight engineer had forgotten to pull the nose gear pin, and rather than dump fuel and come back, they left the plane depressurized, and he climbed down, removed a panel, reached out to the nose gear, and pulled the pin. Everything put back together, gear retracted, the flight climbed, and resumed as normal.

[floydfrank]

There was an incident back in the late 70s ish. I believe the aircraft (737) belonged to CPair, maybe CAIL. It departed yxy for yxs, (yes, that was a route back then) with the pins in. As the story was related at the time, the crew decided to not return to land, but continued on to PG. They almost pulled it off, except for the extra time and fuel which bit them both in the ass, they were summarily fired.

[pelmet]

I wonder where the fired crew ended up?

My only gear pin story was on a turboprop. I did the walkaround and found that the left main pin was missing. I asked maintenance about it and they said that there was a problem with the pin and it had been taken away to be fixed and not to expect it for the flight. So I told that to the captain and that was fine. We had some sort of a delay and for some reason I went into ops to get something. On returning to the aircraft, I did a paranoid check and guess what? There was the pin, returned to where it had been taken from.

So if you encounter this situation, just before engine start, get the ground engineer(do it yourself) to check all gear have no pins installed. I was lucky that day.

[GyvAir]

I was lucky that day.

Lucky, or prudent?

[all_ramped_up]

Not sure about other Ramp Crews but when I was a Lead at a certain YYZ (no not Globeground/Servisair/Penaullie... whatever they're called now...) company, we'd always double check for pins before pulling the chocks for departure.

Same on WS flights. May as well since we're right there eh?

[HHI]

There was an incident back in the late 70s ish. I believe the aircraft (737) belonged to CPair, maybe CAIL. It departed yxy for yxs, (yes, that was a route back then) with the pins in. As the story was related at the time, the crew decided to not return to land, but continued on to PG. They almost pulled it off, except for the extra time and fuel which bit them both in the ass, they were summarily fired.

From what I was told after the event.....

Late 70's.

PWA 737

YXY - YXS

Unusually high amount of fuel uplifted after arrival YXS triggered the investigation.

1 pilot terminated as a result of this event.

Other pilot employment terminated at a later time due to an event unrelated to this one.

Attempted cover-up probably a large factor in the termination.

HHI

[GRK]

The story is that they had also been "up late" the night before as well. The gear pins were also supposed to have been mailed or Fedexed back to the scene of the crime as it were. It is true about the end of one career and the decline of the other. One ended up in a charter company in YYZ before he disappeared into the great migration offshore.

[swordfish]

I did a paranoid check and guess what? There was the pin, returned to where it had been taken from.

A little paranoia is healthy

[pelmet]

Many companies have as their first item on the checklist......

External Check..........Complete-3 pins sighted.

Womder what their checklist says......

C-GLQH, a Porter Airlines Dash 8-400, was conducting flight POE9807 from Ottawa Macdonald-
Cartier International Airport (CYOW), ON, to Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (CYTZ), ON. Shortly

after takeoff, the flight crew selected the landing gear up, and observed that it did not retract. After
the crew conducted some troubleshooting and checklists, they declared a PAN PAN and requested
a return to CYOW, where they landed uneventfully. A post flight inspection revealed that the
landing gear ground locks had not been removed before the flight.