I hate ultralights

[Shiny Side Up]

Wait, hate probably isn't a powerful enough word. I've also learned to not really like guys who are ultralight guys either. I figure you can't really trust people who don't seem to care very much about the well being of their fellow human beings. Of the sectors of general aviation, I know of far more people who've been hurt in ultralights (some of those people multiple times) than any other sector.

For some reason there just seems to be a blind eye to this activity. What might be termed common sense, just doesn't seem to apply to this bit of the world, and everyone in it seems to feel they are a special exception. Major issues:

1) Airworthiness. A very loose definition when it comes to most ultralights. Although somewhat questionable when it comes to the design, in most cases the worst offense is with those who own and maintain. Why is it ok to have a machine with a penchant for catching fire? The crowd seems to accept problems with ultralights that you wouldn't even accept on an old clunker to drive around the farm.

2) Exception to the rules. There seems to be a perception amongst the crowd that there is just no rules. Do what you feel like. They're just suggestions. Lot of Burt Rutans, or at least guys who think they're as smart as when it comes to modifying. See the Colonel's rule #2 of aviation. Most don't seem to know what a traffic pattern or circuit is, and Jeebus save us if one of these fools is on the radio. I'm not even going to mention the number of these guys flying certified aircraft on their permit because they think they've beaten the system.

3) Randomized training. If one can call what is done training. Every time I've seen someone's log for doing their UPP its just 7 hours of circuits. Maybe someone will maybe mention how its bad to stall. Good enough. Of course this leads them to believe that they're just a flight test away from being a certified aeroplane pilot, which is so far from the reality it ain't funny.

Here's what I wish. If we need to have this sort of world, disconnect it from the rest of aviation. You're either an ultralight guy or a real aircraft guy. I wish ultralight time counted towards nothing for certified aeroplanes. You want to switch over, you start at square one.

Rant over.

[CpnCrunch]

The airworthiness issue applies to homebuilts in general - they can be very well built, or a piece of crap. The problem is that it's hard to tell the difference. I think it boils down to whether you trust the builder and whether it has a proper engine (lycoming, continental, or 4-stroke rotax).

Any time I read an accident report that starts off with "the [insert weird automotive conversion engine]" I don't need to read any more because I know what's about to happen.

[CpnCrunch]

Oh, and you could implement a landing fee only for ultralights (like Nanaimo does).

[Shiny Side Up]

Well there's home builts and then there's home builts. Where things go really ugly is where the ultralight and homebuilt crowd is the same. Just seems to be no QC. But that's another story.

The main problem I get is with people seeking training, and I just don't do ultralight permits. So guys will occasionally come and pretend they want to become PPLs, and then they disappear off to go fly their lawn furniture after they feel they've "got it enough". I'm not sure some of them even bothered with the UPP. Sometimes UPP holders come and want to upgrade to a RPP, and they're always under the impression that "the only thing extra to learn is the radio." To give one an idea of the thought process that goes on. Often its like square one, or sometimes square negative one, since they have a lot of really bad habits. Skidding around corners. Trying to power out of stalls. Don't know what a mixture is for besides a kill switch. "Keep that sucker in or the engine will quit!"

[Old Dog Flying]

And then there is the Ultrafright guy who lokes to fly after dark..with no lights on the piece of junk. I was doing some night training one night and my victim was under the hood. We were westbound over Langley at 2000" with a thin sliver of afterglow from the setting sun and in that bit of light was the shadow of something but ut was a long way off or so I thought. Keeping an eye on it with each scan, it got bigger and I threw on the landing light and holy crap! An ultralight, black and blue and I had time to grab the controls, pull and roll around the MX.

Close is not the word for it and when I called the RCMP later they were not interested even though O knew where the aircraft was based..King George Air Park, a notorious ul hang out.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I never did understand why people wanted to fly their lawn furniture.

[PilotDAR]

And then there is the Ultrafright guy who likes to fly after dark

Yup! There I was hurlting along in the 310 in beautiful dusk, probably doing about 180 knots (just 'cause it would!), and that same faint shadow. As I rolled through 90 not to hit him, I don't know how close I came. Though I do remember wondering how an ultralight would manage in the wake turbulence of a 310!

I can't argue against a person's right to fly, but couldn't they use real planes if they would like to share the airspace?

[B52]

The Ultralight regulations are "light" and allow some low time pilots to be instructors
and there is a culture of teaching yourself how to fly.

I explored starting an UltraLight school, even purchased a property with an airstrip on it
and the local flyers were a very high standard as were the aircraft.
I racked up the prerequisite five hours with a god fearing UL instructor who spent
a considerable amount of time praying before each take off.

It was probably a good idea as he could not fly for nuts, and did not have a clue
about wind sheer. Nuts could go loose and god somehow tightened them, at least
thats what happened in his imagination.

Then I met some of the Challenger gang, and this included some very expensive machines
flown by incompetent pilots who appeared to have never had any decent training.
One of them nearly killed me with me as well an observer passenger.

He took off and climbed at just above the stall, got hit with wind sheer and went
wing tip first into the water.

If you ask the engineers and the regular instructors who deal with the Ultra Light mob,
there are some shining examples of quality instruction and construction just as there
are some dim wits instructing and parts coming from Auto-wreckers going on
Cessna 152's that provide back up service for chisel charters and smuggling operations.

My favorite Ultra light is the Murphy Rebel. A mean Subaroo powered machine that gets
off the water two up, full fuel in zero wind in a very short distance. Their performance on
wheels is mind blowing especially with a five bladed composite prop.

Its a machine I'd like to own.

[Shiny Side Up]

And then there is the Ultrafright guy who loves to fly after dark..

Don't get me started. I just about hit one... in my truck. Was up by Lloyd. Guy just comes hurting across the highway in the dark, he was wearing a frikin' head lamp. Not sure if he was taking off or landing. Somehow must have survived, or maybe he's dead in a tree somewhere and no one has missed him, you'd never know.

[Xander]

http://youtu.be/5Jz0bJ3xWs4

[Old Dog Flying]

Then there is the UL clown holding court at a well known coffee shop while he babbled about how ANY machine could be used for aerobatics and the TCCA guys knew S%$t about the safety features in the type. He went on for an jour extoling his aero prowess and the 5 court jester's just swallowed it up

[Shiny Side Up]

My favorite Ultra light is the Murphy Rebel. A mean Subaroo powered machine that gets
off the water two up, full fuel in zero wind in a very short distance. Their performance on
wheels is mind blowing especially with a five bladed composite prop.

Its a machine I'd like to own.

The Rebel can be registered as an ultralight or a home built aircraft depending on how heavy you make it.

So one has a choice, do less and become an ultralight guy, or train more and become a normal PPL flying guy. Your choice.

This is the kind of thing though that I wish TC would sort out. They're behind the times since ultralights aren't just kites with a Briggs and Stratton anymore, there's some that perform like airplanes. They need to sort that out, its not like the old kites that are somewhat performance limited and less of a worry to the rest of us aviators since for the most part they can't get much above the trees. Of larger concern is the unwitting public who can now be deceived into thinking they're in a real airplane, but its being flown by someone who's got a UPP.

While there's supposed to be apparently a Passenger carrying rating, there's a lot of ultralights carrying passengers, but last I looked only two guys in P/N who can do the test. Doesn't take a lot of thinking to realize that there's a lot more passengers being carried than guys with passenger carrying ratings.

[Mark Rose]

This is the kind of thing though that I wish TC would sort out. They're behind the times since ultralights aren't just kites with a Briggs and Stratton anymore, there's some that perform like airplanes. They need to sort that out, its not like the old kites that are somewhat performance limited and less of a worry to the rest of us aviators since for the most part they can't get much above the trees.

I know of one Advanced Ultralight that can climb to over 22,000 ft and cruise at 147 knots. The plus side is that I assume most ultralight pilots don't have their PPL because of cost (why else would you not go for full PPL in Canada?), and can't afford the higher performance advanced ultralights.

[Justjohn]

This is the kind of thing though that I wish TC would sort out. They're behind the times since ultralights aren't just kites with a Briggs and Stratton anymore, there's some that perform like airplanes. They need to sort that out, its not like the old kites that are somewhat performance limited and less of a worry to the rest of us aviators since for the most part they can't get much above the trees.

I know of one Advanced Ultralight that can climb to over 22,000 ft and cruise at 147 knots. The plus side is that I assume most ultralight pilots don't have their PPL because of cost (why else would you not go for full PPL in Canada?), and can't afford the higher performance advanced ultralights.

'Cause maybe you can't hold a class 3 medical, but love to fly. There is a well known Canadian singer in this situation currently.

[Mark Rose]

'Cause maybe you can't hold a class 3 medical, but love to fly. There is a well known Canadian singer in this situation currently.

Ahh, makes sense.

[Shiny Side Up]

'Cause maybe you can't hold a class 3 medical, but love to fly. There is a well known Canadian singer in this situation currently.

You can get a RPP with a Cat 4, sort of the point of it. And G.C. has one now. Thankfully he was convinced to get into the real airplane world.

[Taiser]

I think the states are still looking at making their version of a "cat 3" medical a self declared medical. Basically if you can drive a car, you can fly a plane. Makes sense to me for the cat 3... In fact my medical was due for my "B" drivers license (School Bus in Ontario) and it was way more thorough than my cat 3 exam... and more expensive too!

[Panama Jack]

Oh, and you could implement a landing fee only for ultralights (like Nanaimo does).

That sounds to me like a slippery slope.

[AirFrame]

I never did understand why people wanted to fly their lawn furniture.

Nobody understood why Orville and Wilbur wanted to do it either, but look where we ended up 100 years later...

[AirFrame]

The Rebel can be registered as an ultralight or a home built aircraft depending on how heavy you make it.

Are you sure you don't mean the Maverick? It was a "lightened" Rebel designed from the ground up to be registered as UL or A-UL. Registering a Rebel as a basic UL is just gaming the system because someone was too cheap to pay for the inspections to make it an Amateur-built. I'm not sure you could build a Rebel, put a pilot and fuel in it, and still be under 1200lb.

All this talk about lax maintenance and poor construction is a red herring however... I've seen pathetically maintained certified aircraft, and amateur-built showplanes. Every category has cheapskates who will cut every corner they can, rich people who will spare no expense for perfection, and a range of people in-between.

[iflyforpie]

All this talk about lax maintenance and poor construction is a red herring however... I've seen pathetically maintained certified aircraft, and amateur-built showplanes. Every category has cheapskates who will cut every corner they can, rich people who will spare no expense for perfection, and a range of people in-between.

+1

Personally..... I'd rather fly in or share airspace with someone who is going above and beyond what is required in terms of maintenance and training and even aircraft type (like a brand-new AULA), than a Commercial Operator who is meeting all of the legal requirements on paper, but cutting every corner and is using a less capable aircraft than is required for the job at hand.

[CpnCrunch]

All this talk about lax maintenance and poor construction is a red herring however... I've seen pathetically maintained certified aircraft, and amateur-built showplanes. Every category has cheapskates who will cut every corner they can, rich people who will spare no expense for perfection, and a range of people in-between.

But even a pathetically maintained certified plane generally doesn't fall out of the sky due to structural failure. At worst the engine might quit because it's being flown for the first time in a year, and the pilot lands in a field.

[Shiny Side Up]

But even a pathetically maintained certified plane generally doesn't fall out of the sky due to structural failure. At worst the engine might quit because it's being flown for the first time in a year, and the pilot lands in a field.

They have fallen out of the sky for that reason, but its quite a bit more rare of an occurence. Yes, there are certified airplanes out there with poor maintenance, and cheapskates cutting corners. If anything though, I have a lot more confidence in a mistreated Cessna than a mistreated ultralight. From experience, an ultralight is way more likely to be mistreated though and still flown. Mercifully, most mistreated Cessnas are largely in an abandoned state.

+1

Personally..... I'd rather fly in or share airspace with someone who is going above and beyond what is required in terms of maintenance and training and even aircraft type (like a brand-new AULA), than a Commercial Operator who is meeting all of the legal requirements on paper, but cutting every corner and is using a less capable aircraft than is required for the job at hand.

I used to think that the newer types of AULAs should be fairly well kept, until I caught a guys a few times replacing parts on theirs with stuff from Canadian tire. It substantially eroded my confidence that even new out of the package AULAs would be treated well. Bizarre behavior, in one case the AULA in question was a brand new Technam, straight from the factory, cost around $110,000 with the BRS installed. I think the owner's logic was that since he spent all that money on a BRS, he didn't have to worry about maintenance as much (I should also say that he had an unhealthy fascination with pulling the chute) And to think in my more foolish youth I flew that thing...

Another (the model escapes me) revealed that, while nice and shiny on the outside, someone had buggered up the coolant resovoir and replaced it with an old hockey waterbottle. Nicely lashed down to the firewall with some chicken wire.

After all, new machines turn into beat up machines, they all once came shiny new from the factory, and sometimes you really have to wonder what happened in between.

Either way, dollars to donuts, put your average ultralight beside your average certified aircraft and 99% of the time that certified machine is going to be the machine I'd pick to fly. Home builts fill the middle ground and tend to spread across the spectrum.

Every category has cheapskates who will cut every corner they can, rich people who will spare no expense for perfection, and a range of people in-between.

Oddly enough, how much money the owner has seems to be irrelevant. Some rich people want perfection, some seem content to beat the crap out of things. Some poor people feel entitled to fly and get into the air by whatever means, others are really good at caring for things since they can't replace them. With ultralight guys though, you tend to get all the wierdos, rich and poor with skewed senses of priorities. Like the one guy I knew who purchased a $3000 flying helmet, since he felt it was mandatory for his personal safety, but then flew an ultralight that was prone to catching fire and he flew around in a greasy old set of coveralls. Afraid of flipping over and hitting his head, but not about burning to death. And this is after having burned himself badly in his most recent crash at the time when the fuel tank ruptured and got on the hot engine.



Frig, I could go on forever with all the crappy stuff I see happen with this damn infernal contraption side of flying. Sometimes you'd think it was 1908 with the way some of these guys operate.

No thanks.

[iflyforpie]

I used to think that the newer types of AULAs should be fairly well kept, until I caught a guys a few times replacing parts on theirs with stuff from Canadian tire.

I used to think that AMEs and DARs working under a TC Approved AMO would not buy stuff from Canadian Tire to put in their STC for a certified turbine aircraft..... but AOG Air Support out of Kelowna did just that on their Hot Wings (or whatever it was called) Caravan.....

[Shiny Side Up]

Not saying it won't happen IFP, just saying its way more likely to happen to an ultralight. The ultralight crowd would have one believe that they're equal with the percentage of good and bad, but that's just not so.