Hi all,
Need a bit of information, which I am unable to source elsewhere.
How may I go about converting my FAA Instructors Licenses to a TC Class 1?
I have over 1,500 hours of given instruction, so I believe I meet the requirements.
Thank you.
FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore
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Gene Hasenfus
- Rank 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Don't think you're going to like the answer.
Normally you start as a class 4, then a class 3,
then a class 2, then a class 1.
The highest instructor rating that you can directly
obtain as "direct entry" foreigner is class 3. See
CAR 421.70(2)(a), which requires ground school,
a written test, and a flight test.
Once you obtain a class 3, like anyone else, you
can then write the test and do a flight test for a
class 2, then do a flight test for the class 1, assuming
you aced the written and can use it again within
24 months.
There is no provision in the CARs for "direct entry"
to class 2 or class 1. See CAR 421.71 and 421.72.
You may get some static from TC over the "10
flight test recommends" requirement for the class
2 and class 1. They may not recognize your
foreign flight test recommends, and you may need
to get 10 Canadian flight test recommends as a
class 3, to move up to a class 2.
Normally you start as a class 4, then a class 3,
then a class 2, then a class 1.
The highest instructor rating that you can directly
obtain as "direct entry" foreigner is class 3. See
CAR 421.70(2)(a), which requires ground school,
a written test, and a flight test.
Once you obtain a class 3, like anyone else, you
can then write the test and do a flight test for a
class 2, then do a flight test for the class 1, assuming
you aced the written and can use it again within
24 months.
There is no provision in the CARs for "direct entry"
to class 2 or class 1. See CAR 421.71 and 421.72.
You may get some static from TC over the "10
flight test recommends" requirement for the class
2 and class 1. They may not recognize your
foreign flight test recommends, and you may need
to get 10 Canadian flight test recommends as a
class 3, to move up to a class 2.
Gene says - "Always wear your 'chute!"
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Hi
Thank you very much for that.
That's more information than I have gotten from TC directly!
Where would I be able to research the flight recommends or get some more information, please? I have written to and called TC, but no joy.
Thank you very much for that.
That's more information than I have gotten from TC directly!
Where would I be able to research the flight recommends or get some more information, please? I have written to and called TC, but no joy.
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Gene Hasenfus
- Rank 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Ok. What you need to know is that TC is
organized into "Regions", such as Atlantic,
Quebec, Ontario, PNR, etc.
When it comes to interpreting and applying
the CARs, often you will find astonishing
differences in what the Regions do. In your
situation, reading the CARs, it could be argued
that your foreign flight test recommends do
in fact "count". The CARs do NOT specifically
say "Canadian" PPL/CPL flight test recommends.
I have used this sort of detail in the past to
my advantage. I will warn you that in the corner
cases, sometimes TC will refer to secret internal
policy letters which are not available to the
public. Been there, bought that t-shirt.
Good luck!
PS Airplanes fly pretty much the same, on both
side of the border. The difference is in the paper
work and the regulations. If you are going to be
a Canadian Flight Instructor, you had best bookmark
this URL:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulation ... 96-433.htm
The online "CARs" which are equivalent (but far
more obtuse) to the FARs in the USA.
As a flight instructor, CARs 401/421 should be near
and dear to your heart - personnel licensing. Also
CARs 405/425 (flight training) and 406/426 (flight
schools aka FTU's). And the flight test guides, 408/428.
Also CAR 602 (ops) and 605 (eqpt) are essential
knowledge. For commercial ops, you need to learn
about CAR 702, 703, 704, 705 (think parts 135/121).
organized into "Regions", such as Atlantic,
Quebec, Ontario, PNR, etc.
When it comes to interpreting and applying
the CARs, often you will find astonishing
differences in what the Regions do. In your
situation, reading the CARs, it could be argued
that your foreign flight test recommends do
in fact "count". The CARs do NOT specifically
say "Canadian" PPL/CPL flight test recommends.
I have used this sort of detail in the past to
my advantage. I will warn you that in the corner
cases, sometimes TC will refer to secret internal
policy letters which are not available to the
public. Been there, bought that t-shirt.
Good luck!
PS Airplanes fly pretty much the same, on both
side of the border. The difference is in the paper
work and the regulations. If you are going to be
a Canadian Flight Instructor, you had best bookmark
this URL:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulation ... 96-433.htm
The online "CARs" which are equivalent (but far
more obtuse) to the FARs in the USA.
As a flight instructor, CARs 401/421 should be near
and dear to your heart - personnel licensing. Also
CARs 405/425 (flight training) and 406/426 (flight
schools aka FTU's). And the flight test guides, 408/428.
Also CAR 602 (ops) and 605 (eqpt) are essential
knowledge. For commercial ops, you need to learn
about CAR 702, 703, 704, 705 (think parts 135/121).
Last edited by Gene Hasenfus on Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gene says - "Always wear your 'chute!"
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Thank you very much.
I greatly appreciate the help!
I greatly appreciate the help!
-
Gene Hasenfus
- Rank 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Thinking about it, probably the biggest change
for you is going to be forgetting about the FAA
PTS and memorizing the TC Flight Test Guides.
As a Canadian instructor, you need to know exactly
what the student must be able to do, on the flight
tests. For example, which is a "pass" with respect
to slow flight and a steep turn on a Cdn PPL flight
test?
Big differences: no ground ref maneuvers on PPL,
but you must spin before solo. Weird thing called
a PTR (double entry logbook) which you must worship
ad write lengthy essays in (no kidding).
No lazy-eight on CPL, but there is a spin.
Much less emphasis on IFR in Canada. Very few
instructors have their instrument rating (complete
opposite from USA).
No logbook endorsements required for tailwheel,
RG, over 200hp, or FL240.
PPL in Canada does NOT include night privileges,
which is bizarre considering the higher latitude.
Night rating is extra rating for PPL and has it's
own requirements (what are they?)
Student pilot privileges are TOTALLY different
than in the USA. It will blow your mind. In
Canada, a student pilot with no endorsements
in his logbook can fly all the way across Canada.
In a pressurized piston twin, or a jet. Again,
you need to learn these difference.
for you is going to be forgetting about the FAA
PTS and memorizing the TC Flight Test Guides.
As a Canadian instructor, you need to know exactly
what the student must be able to do, on the flight
tests. For example, which is a "pass" with respect
to slow flight and a steep turn on a Cdn PPL flight
test?
Big differences: no ground ref maneuvers on PPL,
but you must spin before solo. Weird thing called
a PTR (double entry logbook) which you must worship
ad write lengthy essays in (no kidding).
No lazy-eight on CPL, but there is a spin.
Much less emphasis on IFR in Canada. Very few
instructors have their instrument rating (complete
opposite from USA).
No logbook endorsements required for tailwheel,
RG, over 200hp, or FL240.
PPL in Canada does NOT include night privileges,
which is bizarre considering the higher latitude.
Night rating is extra rating for PPL and has it's
own requirements (what are they?)
Student pilot privileges are TOTALLY different
than in the USA. It will blow your mind. In
Canada, a student pilot with no endorsements
in his logbook can fly all the way across Canada.
In a pressurized piston twin, or a jet. Again,
you need to learn these difference.
Gene says - "Always wear your 'chute!"
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Wow. That's a lot to think about.
I would assume I would initially need to convert my FAA license to TC before proceeding with the Instructors licenses.
Any suggestions as to where (in BC) and approximately how long this would take?
I would assume I would initially need to convert my FAA license to TC before proceeding with the Instructors licenses.
Any suggestions as to where (in BC) and approximately how long this would take?
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Gene Hasenfus
- Rank 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Correct. You need to convert your FAA ATP-SMEL
or COMM-SMEL-IA to a TC ATP or CPL + IFR first.
You do this via the IPL:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... 01-478.htm
Don't know any class 1 instructors in BC, sorry.
PS Another licensing difference for you. FAA pilot
certificates are CLASS specific. TC licences are
CATEGORY specific. There are some mindblowing
implications of the above.
For example, a Canadian gets his CPL-SEL (172).
Then he does his CPL-SES (172 on floats) which
is no different whatsoever than a PPL-SES.
Then he does his CPL-MEL (Duchess) which is no
different than a PPL-MEL.
He now gets a free CPL-MES even though he may
never have seen one before. You probably think I'm
full of shit but this is the way it works.
Let's say a Canadian has an ATPL-SMEL. He gets
a float rating, just like any PPL or CPL - no ILS
required like in the USA. He now has an ATPL-SES
as well as a free ATPL-MES. Really.
or COMM-SMEL-IA to a TC ATP or CPL + IFR first.
You do this via the IPL:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/o ... 01-478.htm
Don't know any class 1 instructors in BC, sorry.
PS Another licensing difference for you. FAA pilot
certificates are CLASS specific. TC licences are
CATEGORY specific. There are some mindblowing
implications of the above.
For example, a Canadian gets his CPL-SEL (172).
Then he does his CPL-SES (172 on floats) which
is no different whatsoever than a PPL-SES.
Then he does his CPL-MEL (Duchess) which is no
different than a PPL-MEL.
He now gets a free CPL-MES even though he may
never have seen one before. You probably think I'm
full of shit but this is the way it works.
Let's say a Canadian has an ATPL-SMEL. He gets
a float rating, just like any PPL or CPL - no ILS
required like in the USA. He now has an ATPL-SES
as well as a free ATPL-MES. Really.
Gene says - "Always wear your 'chute!"
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Excellent posts in response to your question.
Here it is in a nutshell.
Pass the Instructor written exam. I'd suggest the online resources as well as reading
the Flight Instructor Guide as the many of the questions are you ability to
recognize and understand specific phrases that can be misunderstood or misinterpreted.
It can include questions from PSTAR, CPL etc.
You will need to do 15 hours DUEL Instruction with a Class One
and 15 hours Ground school, as minimum requirements.
Amongst the many schools that can do this.
I'd give an honorable mention to two places in Canada that stand out for this purpose.
Harv's Air in Manitoba and Cornwall Aviation in Cornwall Ontario.
Both these places will have you done in MINIMUM TIME both from duel hours
and getting it done over and done with ASAP. Other numerous schools
will have you waiting six weeks to get your first hour in due to Class One
lack of availability.
I was in and remain in a similar position. Despite thousands of instructional hours
my recently renewed Canadian is only a Class 4 and that gets you viewed as an apprentice requiring
supervision that is basically an age old way that Canada discriminates against
immigrants.
The only recognition comes with Aerobatics, where if you have the experience and get
your recommendation, you can do a Class 2 and Class 1 at the same time in most provinces
and in Central region (Hint- Harv's Air) you can do a Class One Aerobatic in ONE ride and skip
the two based simply on experience.
In other countries, Instrument and Multi engine training requires specific approval or ratings
that does not yet exist in Canada. It may well be something in the pipeline to replace
with IFR renewals with proficiency checks.
Here it is in a nutshell.
Pass the Instructor written exam. I'd suggest the online resources as well as reading
the Flight Instructor Guide as the many of the questions are you ability to
recognize and understand specific phrases that can be misunderstood or misinterpreted.
It can include questions from PSTAR, CPL etc.
You will need to do 15 hours DUEL Instruction with a Class One
and 15 hours Ground school, as minimum requirements.
Amongst the many schools that can do this.
I'd give an honorable mention to two places in Canada that stand out for this purpose.
Harv's Air in Manitoba and Cornwall Aviation in Cornwall Ontario.
Both these places will have you done in MINIMUM TIME both from duel hours
and getting it done over and done with ASAP. Other numerous schools
will have you waiting six weeks to get your first hour in due to Class One
lack of availability.
I was in and remain in a similar position. Despite thousands of instructional hours
my recently renewed Canadian is only a Class 4 and that gets you viewed as an apprentice requiring
supervision that is basically an age old way that Canada discriminates against
immigrants.
The only recognition comes with Aerobatics, where if you have the experience and get
your recommendation, you can do a Class 2 and Class 1 at the same time in most provinces
and in Central region (Hint- Harv's Air) you can do a Class One Aerobatic in ONE ride and skip
the two based simply on experience.
In other countries, Instrument and Multi engine training requires specific approval or ratings
that does not yet exist in Canada. It may well be something in the pipeline to replace
with IFR renewals with proficiency checks.
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Big Pistons Forever
- Top Poster
- Posts: 5868
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
I discussed a similar situation TC awhile ago. No problem to go straight across to a Class 3 but TC wants to see a flight test record for the higher ratings. For instance when a Class 3 goes for the upgrade ride the TC examiner will look at the flight test reports for all of his/her students. If there is a exercise that is consistently weak I guarantee the examiner will put the boots to you on that exercise.
Flight training seems to be treated in a very parochial manner by all the regulators with little interest in recognizing that another jurisdiction's training is just as good. For instance my Canadian Class 1 instructor rating and 2200 hours of instructing would get me no credit from the FAA. I would have to do the whole course over.
Flight training seems to be treated in a very parochial manner by all the regulators with little interest in recognizing that another jurisdiction's training is just as good. For instance my Canadian Class 1 instructor rating and 2200 hours of instructing would get me no credit from the FAA. I would have to do the whole course over.
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Gene Hasenfus
- Rank 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Actually, from a student perspective, the FAA
is very liberal in recognizing "foreign" flight
training. See FAR 61.41
is very liberal in recognizing "foreign" flight
training. See FAR 61.41
Gene says - "Always wear your 'chute!"
-
Big Pistons Forever
- Top Poster
- Posts: 5868
- Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Gene
I was referring specifically to the thread question, conversion of an existing Flight Instructor rating. As I understand it having a Canadian flight instructor rating gives you no credit towards obtaining a FAA flight instructor rating. Is that also your understanding ?
I was referring specifically to the thread question, conversion of an existing Flight Instructor rating. As I understand it having a Canadian flight instructor rating gives you no credit towards obtaining a FAA flight instructor rating. Is that also your understanding ?
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Gene Hasenfus
- Rank 2
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
FAR 61.181 through 61.187 do not give any
credit to foreign (or even US ex-military)
instructors.
There is credit given to qualified teachers
and professors with respect to the knowledge
test, but that's it.
You're going to have to hook up with an FAA
CFI that's had his rating at least 24 months
(see FAR 61.195(h)) and work with him to
get the required logbook endorsements to
write the test, and do the checkride. If you
know the FARs and the PTS, that process
could happen pretty quickly.
credit to foreign (or even US ex-military)
instructors.
There is credit given to qualified teachers
and professors with respect to the knowledge
test, but that's it.
You're going to have to hook up with an FAA
CFI that's had his rating at least 24 months
(see FAR 61.195(h)) and work with him to
get the required logbook endorsements to
write the test, and do the checkride. If you
know the FARs and the PTS, that process
could happen pretty quickly.
Gene says - "Always wear your 'chute!"
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Hello, aviators!
Does anybody have a current info on the conversion of a flight insructor rating from FAA to TC? The TC Ontario office said that FAA instructors don't have any credits and must go all the way from the begining and get class 4 first. Did anybody have an alternative opinionduring your conversion? Thanks in advance for your answers!
Does anybody have a current info on the conversion of a flight insructor rating from FAA to TC? The TC Ontario office said that FAA instructors don't have any credits and must go all the way from the begining and get class 4 first. Did anybody have an alternative opinionduring your conversion? Thanks in advance for your answers!
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Does anyone here still current and qualified on their FAA CFII ratings?
Looking for an FAA CFII current and qualified to do an IPC instrument proficiency check 61.57.
I live in the GTA area. I appreciate your help.
Looking for an FAA CFII current and qualified to do an IPC instrument proficiency check 61.57.
I live in the GTA area. I appreciate your help.
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Hi folks,
I also look for an IPC sign-off by FAA CFII within 2-hour drive radius of Toronto...
I also look for an IPC sign-off by FAA CFII within 2-hour drive radius of Toronto...
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tanxiaoneng
- Rank 1
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:52 pm
Re: FAA CFI/CFII/MEI to TC Class 1 Instructor Conversion
Hi vov4ik_il,
were you able to find an FAA CFII for an IPC? I'm in the same situation. I'm in BC but I'm willing to relocate for the IPC.
Cheers,
