Hi Members, I'm having a hard time with landings, How can I improve this....
I know I need practice but It looks like I'm stuck in this lesson....
I do have a Ok, approach, but the last few seconds are horrible, my instructor tells me I need to work on the Flare.... Before I was doing it to early and now to late
Looking for anything at this point that could help me with this: videos, techniques etc....
Ah, we are using flaps(20)
Any advice on this.. would be great.
* I think I'm not doing the transition from nose down to cruise attitude.

Thanks

- lots of practice
- look at the correct point outside (I'll leave it to the instructors to tell you where you should look)
- don't land too fast

CpnCrunch wrote: - look at the correct point outside (I'll leave it to the instructors to tell you where you should look)
- don't land too fast

Can you explain: Correct point outside, Are you talking about marker?

Slow down
Slow down
Slow down.

Most of my bad landings in normal conditions, have resulted from flaring with too much speed, better thought of as energy. You want to flare with minimal flying energy left, so the aircraft stops flying promptly, in the flare.

If you are training in a light Cessna, that means idle power during the approach, usually sooner rather than later, and especially with less than full flaps.

Think of it as a game --- get into the flare attitude, and just hold it there -- keep flying, thinking " don't let it land dont let it land" -- patiently holding the correct attitude. In other words -- don't drop the nose!

love2fly14 wrote:

CpnCrunch wrote: - look at the correct point outside (I'll leave it to the instructors to tell you where you should look)
- don't land too fast

Can you explain: Correct point outside, Are you talking about marker?

I'm not a flight instructor, and to be honest I'm not really sure where I look (but I guess it must be the correct point). I think I look about 50 feet in front of the plane at the sides of the runway, but I'm not certain.

I think practice is the key. Eventually your brain will just figure it out and you'll magically be able to do a good landing.

love2fly14 wrote:Hi Members, I'm having a hard time with landings, How can I improve this....
I know I need practice but It looks like I'm stuck in this lesson....
I do have a Ok, approach, but the last few seconds are horrible, my instructor tells me I need to work on the Flare.... Before I was doing it to early and now to late
Looking for anything at this point that could help me with this: videos, techniques etc....
Ah, we are using flaps(20)
Any advice on this.. would be great.
* I think I'm not doing the transition from nose down to cruise attitude.

Thanks

I assume you are flying a C 172 (M,N, or P model) ? What approach speed is the instructor telling you to fly and what is a typical power setting (RPM) you have on short final (ie at about 200 feet AGL)

Think of it as presenting the mains to the runway. As you get into the last 2-3 feet, and pull the power gentle out increase back pressure to catch and hold the AC, holding the nose up and presenting the Main gear to the runway first. Protect the nose by holding it up and slowly lowering it(flying the let dn) after gear contact. As you pull the throttle out you have to catch and hold the sink rate, which bleeds your speed and gets the nose up and gear dn. If you have too much speed you can hold it there for a couple of seconds and that speed w/ Cessna flaps will disapear faster than casper the gost. Hope it helps I'm not an instructor!

I'm curious ... what are you expecting a good landing to be, exactly? How will you know when you've done one?

Not perhaps as silly a question as it sounds.

Look at the end of the rwy in the flare, use peripheral vision

Big Pistons Forever wrote:

love2fly14 wrote:Hi Members, I'm having a hard time with landings, How can I improve this....
I know I need practice but It looks like I'm stuck in this lesson....
I do have a Ok, approach, but the last few seconds are horrible, my instructor tells me I need to work on the Flare.... Before I was doing it to early and now to late
Looking for anything at this point that could help me with this: videos, techniques etc....
Ah, we are using flaps(20)
Any advice on this.. would be great.
* I think I'm not doing the transition from nose down to cruise attitude.

Thanks

I assume you are flying a C 172 (M,N, or P model) ? What approach speed is the instructor telling you to fly and what is a typical power setting (RPM) you have on short final (ie at about 200 feet AGL)

yes, Im flying a 172, we use 20 degree flaps.
My approach speed is 65 kts and about 1500rpm
But sometimes I'm in idle when altitude to high.

photofly wrote:I'm curious ... what are you expecting a good landing to be, exactly? How will you know when you've done one?

Not perhaps as silly a question as it sounds.

One lading that I can do by my self with out the assistance from instructor

How long have you been practicing your landings? How is the rest of the circuit, specifically final? Are you all over the place on final? Can you keep the plane on the centerline? Are you having trouble with ballooning or hard landings?

It's not unusual for a student to need 5 hours or more to get used to landings. Sometimes a student can't get good landings because their instructor didn't teach them the fundamentals (5-9) properly.

My favorite two tips that I give out are to look at the end of the runway, and like rookie50 said, try to level off 2' above the ground and hold it there for as long as you can- be gentle.

Bede wrote:How long have you been practicing your landings? How is the rest of the circuit, specifically final? Are you all over the place on final? Can you keep the plane on the centerline? Are you having trouble with ballooning or hard landings?

It's not unusual for a student to need 5 hours or more to get used to landings. Sometimes a student can't get good landings because their instructor didn't teach them the fundamentals (5-9) properly.

My favorite two tips that I give out are to look at the end of the runway, and like rookie50 said, try to level off 2' above the ground and hold it there for as long as you can- be gentle.

I'm about 4 hrs in with landings, the circuit is good. I know I have a little prob on the final.. not all hover the place, but not center the way I would like. But definitely need to work on that.
Having hard landings, I have a nose down attitude, and pulling up to late. My instructor says I'm not flaring.
I'm thinking that I'm not doing the transition from nose down to level off and then I should flare...
But im going nose down and then flare when close to the ground .
Also their is a tendency for the plane to go to my right after landing. Maybe rudder issues.

It is frustrating. I was sure I was going to get this faster and it is discouraging.

love2fly14 wrote:

photofly wrote:I'm curious ... what are you expecting a good landing to be, exactly? How will you know when you've done one?

Not perhaps as silly a question as it sounds.

One lading that I can do by my self with out the assistance from instructor

I suppose one way to improve your landings is not to give a smart-ass answer to someone replying to your request for help.

Want to try again?

photofly wrote:

love2fly14 wrote:

photofly wrote:I'm curious ... what are you expecting a good landing to be, exactly? How will you know when you've done one?

Not perhaps as silly a question as it sounds.

One lading that I can do by my self with out the assistance from instructor

I suppose one way to improve your landings is not to give a smart-ass answer to someone replying to your request for help.

Want to try again?

I'm not able to land by myself, so If I can do one landing with out assistance, just me. That is what I'm going for !!!
just curious, why you think I was being smart.... I was honest and sorry if he took it the wrong way.

Another important consideration is your seat position. Maybe you're sitting too low and what you and your instructor see outside are two different things. This is an important consideration that is often overlooked by inexperienced instructors.

However it's tough for you to come on here and get advice. Everyone will have their own opinion. Perhaps it is time to do a flight with a supervisory instructor at your school. Often a fresh set of eyes and a different explanation can go a long way.

If that's not an option ask your instructor to demonstrate a few landings if he/she hasn't been. While they are demoing pay very close attention to the attitude and movement of the aircraft. As someone else eluded to landing an aircraft in many ways is attitudes and movements, straight and level and then slow flight exercises. There is some reasoning as to the order of the ftm. Many newer instructors however don't see the correlation or they at least don't explain to the student how they relate one to another.

Gus

vrrotate wrote:Another important consideration is your seat position. Maybe you're sitting too low and what you and your instructor see outside are two different things. This is an important consideration that is often overlooked by inexperienced instructors.

However it's tough for you to come on here and get advice. Everyone will have their own opinion. Perhaps it is time to do a flight with a supervisory instructor at your school. Often a fresh set of eyes and a different explanation can go a long way.

If that's not an option ask your instructor to demonstrate a few landings if he/she hasn't been. While they are demoing pay very close attention to the attitude and movement of the aircraft. As someone else eluded to landing an aircraft in many ways is attitudes and movements, straight and level and then slow flight exercises. There is some reasoning as to the order of the ftm. Many newer instructors however don't see the correlation or they at least don't explain to the student how they relate one to another.

Gus

This makes me think !!!!! Great point. Yes I know it is hard to come here and ask for help, but not sure what else I can do. For me anything helps. Your post got me thinking.

I hit a plateau at the same point. For me - inisiting my INS did a demo landing was very helpful. I also found I was levelling off too late and too abruptly - yaking the poor thing into the flare. I started to round out a little earlier and smoother, and the flare then became progressive and things just started to click.
Personally, I don't look at the end of the runway - but a few hundered feet ahead of the aircraft, the point that does not move.
It take time to develop the feel needed, most important thing is to keep going!

vrrotate wrote: . Perhaps it is time to do a flight with a supervisory instructor at your school. Often a fresh set of eyes and a different explanation can go a long way.

Best advice so far.

jump154 wrote:I hit a plateau at the same point. For me - inisiting my INS did a demo landing was very helpful. I also found I was levelling off too late and too abruptly - yaking the poor thing into the flare. I started to round out a little earlier and smoother, and the flare then became progressive and things just started to click.
Personally, I don't look at the end of the runway - but a few hundered feet ahead of the aircraft, the point that does not move.
It take time to develop the feel needed, most important thing is to keep going!

Thank you for your post, it does help in many ways. Frustration was starting to kick in.....

Big Pistons Forever wrote:

vrrotate wrote: . Perhaps it is time to do a flight with a supervisory instructor at your school. Often a fresh set of eyes and a different explanation can go a long way.

Best advice so far.

I was think of that..... Just hope the instructor does not take it personally..
Also the Supervisor wants to fly with me before my solo to make sure I'm ok. So it might be the right moment to ask.

Ask your instructor to demonstrate a perfect circuit finishing with a full stop spot landing .
A good demonstration should include you lightly following through on the controls as the instructor verbalizes each and every input and action .
Once you have seen a good landing ,you will know what is required.

I pulled the engine on a CPL candidate when crossing midfield and asked him to land on the second stripe .He felt that I was being to hard on him and that none of the "Other "instructors had ever asked him for such high standards. I took control of the aircraft and asked him what stripe I should land on ,then I asked him if the wheels should touch down on the beginning or end ,then which wheel did he want to see land on the stripe. After that demonstration he was fully aware of how easy it is to control the aircraft and fly it to get it to do what you want it to do even without power. Landing with power makes spot landings all to easy.

Once you know what is required it becomes fun again

Use trim on the approach to make things easier. Two swipes of the trim wheel usually does it.

Jim

jump154 wrote: Personally, I don't look at the end of the runway - but a few hundered feet ahead of the aircraft, the point that does not move.
It take time to develop the feel needed, most important thing is to keep going!

Yes, me too. I find I can accurately judge my height above the runway every time by looking about 100 feet ahead. This thread might be worth reading:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... peripheral

Cat driver (the most experienced pilot on this forum) advocates not looking at the end of the runway. I'm not sure how you can accurately judge height when looking at the end of the runway, as your depth perception doesn't operate that far unless you're superman or you're landing on your driveway.

I also find it interesting that a high time pilot says "I look really far down the runway. Sometimes I forget. Sometimes I bounce all over the place. Sometimes I grease it exactly where I want. Sometimes I feel like I'm falling out of the sky and make sure I'm in the climb attitude. Sometimes I hit some power and yaw like mad."

Jungle Jim wrote:Use trim on the approach to make things easier. Two swipes of the trim wheel usually does it.

Jim

Trim down?