When will this TFW pilot BS stop ?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Just received a call from a Canadian pilot.

This small Canadian operator published an ad that stated they needed a temporary relief pilot with certain qualifications on a couple different types of aircraft.

A Canadian pilot (my caller) with those specific qualifications called up the operator to express interest in the position.

The operator candidly told the applicant that it was not a real add but only there to satisfy ESDC requirement that the position be advertised before he could qualify for the LMIA (new acronym for the now too famous LMO).

The operator further stated that he didn't really need a full time pilot, nor did he want to pay for one, but that this Foreign pilot who happened to have the right qualifications and lived not too far, was willing to do the flying for FREE.

So the ad was just to satisfy bureaucracy in order to obtain the LMIA and get the free foreign pilot.......


This BS MUST stop and it must stop NOW!

[Apollo]

+1 to this. Who was the operator? Let us out them!

[timel]

The new TFWP is now based on wages instead of occupancy. Working for free won't work.
http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_ ... rict.shtml

This operator is definitely putting himself in with an illegal use of TFWP.
Thing is, as long as we won't have some wage scale for Canadian pilots, it will be hard to go against this abuses, except if they are found.

Is it possible to go against those operators, if found guilty after a year or two that they misused that program?

[goldeneagle]

Go to the above linked page, scroll down, and you'll see the section specifically addressing pilots.

So, before they can get temporary foreigns, they must meet a bunch of requirements, and local applicants with requisite experience cannot be turned down based on lack of a type rating. If you have time in the book, and experience on equivalent complexity aircraft, and a right to work in Canada, then you should go to the front of the line based on the wording in the general portion of the document for high wage positions, and the section below on pilots in particular.

Foreign Pilots in Canada

In recent years, concerns have been raised that some airlines are excluding Canadian pilots from seasonal jobs by requiring job applicants to already be trained on specific types of planes (type‑rating) before they are hired, which is counter to general industry standards of airlines paying for and ensuring pilots obtain their training on the specific airline’s planes after they have been hired.

The Government of Canada consulted widely on this issue, and most stakeholders agreed that seasonal variations in fleet capacity should not stop airlines from training pilots for specific aircraft. It was noted that many airlines successfully contract flight time, pilot training and other training elements, such as flight simulator time, with other airlines or with aircraft manufacturers in order to meet their training requirements. There was a consensus that there is no shortage of Canadian commercial pilots who could be trained to fly specific types of aircraft.

Based on stakeholder consultations, the following changes are being made for airlines requesting foreign pilots through the Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA) process.

Effective July 1, 2014, airlines must:

meet the minimum advertising requirements for high-wage occupations;
specify the following criteria in their job postings:
no more than a maximum of 4,000 flight hours for a First Officer and 5,000 hours for a Captain as required experience;
possess a valid commercial pilots' licence;
require English and/or French language proficiency;
include industry standard medical testing requirements for commercial flight;
state both the legal and common names of the airline operating in Canada;
not include as an essential or asset requirement the necessity of holding a type rating for a specific type of aircraft. However, requiring applicants to have experience flying equipment that is similar in configuration and complexity to the airline’s fleet is considered acceptable;
indicate when training bonds will be applied and they must cover a minimum of two years employment;
negotiate a transition plan with ESDC documenting the airline’s future efforts and commitment to decrease the reliance on foreign pilots while increasing its complement of Canadian/permanent resident pilots. The transition plan will be reviewed by ESDC for progress and can affect the outcome of future LMIA applications; and
submit LMIA applications a minimum of three months before the first day of work to ensure Service Canada officers can thoroughly review the application. Any exception to this timeline must be requested prior to the LMIA being submitted.

[floats4fun]

I agree with Apollo, out the company.

[Meatservo]

Is it not the case that the requirement to advertise the position is there so the employer can prove there were no qualified applicants before hiring a foreigner? If so, your friend should document his attempt to apply for the position, and then block the foreigner from being hired by presenting his documented evidence to whomever approves this stuff.

[DanWEC]

Ridiculous!! I agree, let people know the name of the company, and direct the pilot to inform the Ministry of Labour/ESDC. I'm sure that regardless of their perceived ignorance, they would be pretty peeved to hear of a foreign worker taking a job, for free....
At the very least their TFW application would be denied, and hopefully shoved somewhere, hard. Ouch, paper cuts.

[black hole]

If you post your resume with Employment Insurance: they promised they would weed these people out.


BH

[BE20 Driver]

Have someone with similar qualifications call the company and ask the same questions. Record the conversation.

[trey kule]

I find the whole OP original story a bit hard to accept. And as its based on third party, unsubstantiated
evidence it is really just hearsay....but it did fire up the howling mob...out them you say? Out them...no need to base our opinion on more than this.

Because someone posted on here what someone else told them...! ..burn the witches...lets all do it before we come to our senses.

The person who actually experienced this should be taking action....they really are the only one who knows exactly what was said, what their qualifications were, and what happened. Then, we can get an idea of what happened, though if it does not satisfy certain people, they will come on here and gnash and wail about the unfairness of it all.

This inflammatory fuelling of the mob is not helping the cause at all... Get the facts people before you cry for someone's head......and there are no facts here

[BverLuver]

Trey Kule,

I find the whole OP original story a bit hard to accept. And as its based on third party, unsubstantiated
evidence it is really just hearsay....but it did fire up the howling mob...out them you say? Out them...no need to base our opinion on more than this.

You mean like yourself calling out the OP even though he didn't post the company name probably for that exact reason?

The person who actually experienced this should be taking action....they really are the only one who knows exactly what was said, what their qualifications were, and what happened. Then, we can get an idea of what happened, though if it does not satisfy certain people, they will come on here and gnash and wail about the unfairness of it all.

You never seem to offer any belief that ANY of this happens. It seems like you are only concerned about protecting your expat life and really don't care about anyone else.

This inflammatory fuelling of the mob is not helping the cause at all... Get the facts people before you cry for someone's head......and there are no facts here

I agree but what if it is exactly what happened and is 100% correct? You never give weight to that, it's always the devils advocate for you.

BL

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Everyone here (except Trey Kule of course) knows I have no problem with outing such operators. I did not in this case because my caller specifically asked me not to, in order not to be identified and blacklisted for employment.

I did however write last night to Alexis Conrad (In charge of the TFW Program at ESDC) to whom I gave the information and the name of the Operator.

If despite this, I find out that this operator was able to obtain the TFW, I will out everyone involved, including the name of the TFW who works for free.

[trey kule]

You are quite correct, sort of, about the devil's advocate.
There has to be some balance or these threads are little more than preaching to the choir.

I have no problem with outing anyone if it is fair comment and based on facts.
The original post had nothing but third party here-say.

Slinging mud at the wall and hoping some of it sticks is, at least in my opinion, not the best way to go about dealing with this problem.

Take a moment and reread some of the posts in response to the original post. No one questioned if there wereany hard facts to back it up. They took here-say and then demanded an outing.

Anyone can, with a bit of digging get a pretty good idea of who the operator was. If it is found that maybe the source was a bit incorrect, a great disservice has been done to an operator based on heresay. Why anyone would not be patient and let it be investigated first is beyond me.

Btw. My expat days are coming to an end very soon, so I will ignore the personal, unrelated attack.
I care very much about what is happening. And I have put my beliefs into action...but like many many others, just dont see the need to broadcast it.

In any event, have at the poor sot and lets hope the information is accurate. From what I read, a report was made by one party, and the conclusion, without waiting to confirm anything was the BS has to stop.
What if it is true? Then that is a different story. But what if its not? Patience is necessary before we demand the BS to stop.

[mbav8r]

Trey, why is your method of combating this practice so secretive, after all if yours is truly the best or even an effective way, why not broadcast it, strength in numbers and all that. The proof is in the pudding and you have provided absolutely nothing constructive towards this fight, to the point your contrary postings give the appearance you are gaining from it.
People are under the assumption that Gilles is fighting the good fight and I choose to believe he would not make up a story to fuel the mob, after all the main culprit does a pretty good job of fuelling the mob on their own, see recent article from Sunwing CEO, anyhow I feel after a couple years you need to put up or shut up!
P.S, it appears as though the 3rd party provided enough proof to Gilles to warrant a complaint to be filed, that's good enough for me, BURN EM AT THE STAKE

[timel]

It would be interesting to get the LMIA pilots applications for 2014, and the 2015 will say a lot as well.

What did it take to access those applications for 2013? (Pdf file)

[RatherBeFlying]

It will stop when pilots blown off when responding to an ad report it to ESDC -- providing of course that ESDC will deny the TFW application.

Ads posted as part of a TFW application should also post where applicants can indicate their availability and qualifications to ESDC for the advertised position.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

It would be interesting to get the LMIA pilots applications for 2014, and the 2015 will say a lot as well.

What did it take to access those applications for 2013? (Pdf file)

I asked back in May 2014 for the LMO applications from Oct 2013 to May 2014. I am still waiting for them.
I asked back in May 2014 for the 2012 LMO applications. They sent me a $228 bill which I paid. I am still waiting for them.

Does that give you an idea ?

[timel]

Does that give you an idea ?

Perfect thanks a lot.

[hadiiz]

Everyone here (except Trey Kule of course) knows I have no problem with outing such operators. I did not in this case because my caller specifically asked me not to, in order not to be identified and blacklisted for employment.

I did however write last night to Alexis Conrad (In charge of the TFW Program at ESDC) to whom I gave the information and the name of the Operator.

If despite this, I find out that this operator was able to obtain the TFW, I will out everyone involved, including the name of the TFW who works for free.

Thank you for fighting the good fight.

[Jack Klumpus]

Thought of your battle yesterday while in Warsaw. There was a CanJet 737 operating for some Itaka? They used the callsign Lot I think.

[Jack Klumpus]

That's her. Not my picture.

[182-SS]

Very interesting that people get so angry towards someone who is only calling for the information to be validated so that you can be sure you aren't outing a company that doesn't deserve such a backlash.

How could anyone possible be against confirming the truth? If this isn't a good enough reason, consider the fact, should you cause damage to a person or company's reputation by stating untruths on this written forum, you are committing libel and will likely be sued should they petition the court to force av canada give up your IP address.

If your right, by all means, tell the truth, But.. you should be thanking Trey Kule, whether he is playing devils advocate or not, he is helping people not jump to conclusions by forcing thought and possibly saving people their retirement savings.