YVR Flow

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, I WAS Birddog

GhostRider6
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:14 am

YVR Flow

Post by GhostRider6 »

Hey,

Just wondering if any ATC folk from the YVR ACC can shed some light on the constant implementation of flow into YVR for the last few months.

Thank you very much :)
---------- ADS -----------
 
7ECA
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 967
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:33 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by 7ECA »

"Due to staff shortages and limited system capacity..." on each and every sunny day. Haha...
---------- ADS -----------
 
Broker
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:52 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Broker »

7ECA wrote:"Due to staff shortages and limited system capacity..." on each and every sunny day. Haha...
That normally means Union negotiations are under way or about to commence.
---------- ADS -----------
 
PostmasterGeneral
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:50 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

Often times it's one or two guys working all frequencies. At one of the busiest airports in Canada.

My favourite is the KEINN crossing times of 20 minutes past planned ETA, then "resume normal speed" as soon as you get there, and you're one of only 3 guys on approach.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Black_Tusk
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 693
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Black_Tusk »

Nothing like flying to YYJ in 10 minutes, then only to sit on the ground there for 45 while waiting for flow. Best part?... no aircraft in the area when we finally get into YVR. So what's the reason?

A month ago we had flow for anything eastbound over FL280... 1 hour. So we filed FL270 to Edmonton's FIR then stepped it up. I wonder how much fuel that cost the company.
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by CpnCrunch »

This "limited system capacity" been happening for years to a certain extent (at least for VFR), mostly on sunny days. This year just seems worse than usual. YYJ hasn't normally been affected in the past, but now you can't even do circuits there.
---------- ADS -----------
 
PostmasterGeneral
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:50 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

Not to mention the guy that normally has the nasally "game show host" voice is out of character full time now... I used to love hearing that.

Almost as much as the happy day guy in YYC!
---------- ADS -----------
 
loopa
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by loopa »

Hahaha yes !!!! The happy day guy lol
---------- ADS -----------
 
Braun
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Braun »

Broker wrote:
7ECA wrote:"Due to staff shortages and limited system capacity..." on each and every sunny day. Haha...
That normally means Union negotiations are under way or about to commence.
WE just ratified a contract. So no.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Stu Pidasso
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Stu Pidasso »

Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Rtodd
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:20 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Rtodd »

Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.

I totally disagree! Nav Canada provides one of safest and reliable Air Traffic Services in the world. You should be a little more respectful of those that have your back.

RT
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by CpnCrunch »

Rtodd wrote: I totally disagree! Nav Canada provides one of safest and reliable ATS services in the world. You should be a little more respectful of those that have your back.

RT
Still no concrete answer about why this has been happening for years. I don't blame the staff. It must be a management issue, or else some fundamental problem with the universe (not enough warm bodies that are competent enough to work for ATC). I suspect the former.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Braun
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:32 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Braun »

Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
Great blanket statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. Say what you want, we are good at what we do and what we do is SAFELY move trafic as expeditiously and orderly as possible. Sorry if that gets in your way. We provide great service at very, very low costs for the airline industry. Also if you aren't happy with the service I strongly suggest you file a complaint. After all, how will we get better if we are so bad at our jobs? By reading useless forum posts?

Also when I say low cost this is not why we are short staffed. Training people if very, very difficult and takes time. We are really focusing on training right now to avoid these delays.
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by CpnCrunch »

Braun wrote:We provide great service
I'm not sure how 50% of Jazz's late afternoon flights into YVR being either cancelled or delayed by > 20 mins is a "great service". We probably can't blame all their delays on flow control, but usually Jazz is nowhere near as bad as this.
very, very low costs for the airline industry.
That may be the problem. The airlines push to reduce Nav Can costs, and this is the result. Perhaps now they've realised they can't cut things to the bone.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Alcoholism
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Alcoholism »

If you think our controllers are second rate, you probably should stay on the ground then. That would help the rest of us, less aircraft less flow. Never the less, NavCan controllers are the best given what they have to work with. Visit a tower or control centre to get a better understanding of the job they do, maybe then you'll be appreciative.
---------- ADS -----------
 
CpnCrunch
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:38 am

Re: YVR Flow

Post by CpnCrunch »

Alcoholism wrote:If you think our controllers are second rate,
I never said that, and I just looked over this thread and nobody has said or implied that the controllers are second rate.
Visit a tower or control centre to get a better understanding of the job they do, maybe then you'll be appreciative.
I have, and I am appreciative of individual controllers, just not your management. If I've gotten my facts wrong, feel free to correct me.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6094
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: YVR Flow

Post by ahramin »

Braun wrote:
Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
Great blanket statement with absolutely nothing to back it up. Say what you want, we are good at what we do and what we do is SAFELY move trafic as expeditiously and orderly as possible. Sorry if that gets in your way. We provide great service at very, very low costs for the airline industry. Also if you aren't happy with the service I strongly suggest you file a complaint. After all, how will we get better if we are so bad at our jobs? By reading useless forum posts?

Also when I say low cost this is not why we are short staffed. Training people if very, very difficult and takes time. We are really focusing on training right now to avoid these delays.
CZVR DUE TO REDUCED SYSTEM CAPACITY AND ANTICIPATED TFC DEMANDS, VFR ACFT CAN ANTICIPATE RESTRICTIONS AND MAY BE DENIED FLT IN TML CLASS C AIRSPACE
Anyone want to explain what reduced system capacity is? Might 27 VTA controllers doing the job of 44 VTA positions have something to do with it? In a well run company should this problem be solved in more or less than a decade?
---------- ADS -----------
 
ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 6094
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: YVR Flow

Post by ahramin »

Alcoholism wrote:If you think our controllers are second rate, you probably should stay on the ground then. That would help the rest of us, less aircraft less flow. Never the less, NavCan controllers are the best given what they have to work with. Visit a tower or control centre to get a better understanding of the job they do, maybe then you'll be appreciative.
Nobody has a problem with YVR VTA controllers unless they are having a very bad day. The manager on the other hand is obviously not able to do the job.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Diadem »

CpnCrunch wrote:I never said that, and I just looked over this thread and nobody has said or implied that the controllers are second rate.
Stu Pidasso wrote:Usual 2nd rate services from Nav Canada, control staffing = maximum overtime. Completely embarrassing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Alcoholism
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: YVR Flow

Post by Alcoholism »

Thanks Diadem. Now, before Stu means the company and not the controllers, well if one were to say that AC or WS or insert your company here is second rate, wouldn't you think that would include the pilots? Perhaps better worded next time would be advisable. Every company has its issues. I hear many times from co workers making quips about controllers, so easy to do with lack of understanding. They're (ATC) trying to do their best. That is all.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”