Congrats

[KAG]

Looks like your also being bought. Congrats folks and enjoy those hats

[tallyho]

Anyone know roughly how many aircraft and pilots at AT?

Thanks

[tps8903]

Anyone know roughly how many aircraft and pilots at AT?

Thanks

From ALPA:

At a Glance
Pilots joined ALPA: 1999
Number of pilots: 619
Pilot bases: Montreal, Que., and Toronto, Ont.

From PCC:

Fleet Types
16 Airbus A330-200 Wide-body Airliners,
4 Airbus A330-300 Wide-body Airliners,
7 Airbus A310-300 Wide-body Airliners,
1 Airbus A321-LR Airliner,
10 Airbus A321-200 Airliners,
14 Boeing B737-800NG Airliners.

NOTE: Winter Season Narrowbody Fleet increases to 14 B737-800NG and 10 Airbus A321's.
Aircraft Orders
2 Airbus A321neo Airliners,
14 Airbus A321neo-LR Airliners

NOTE: Airbus A321neo deliveries from 2019 to 2022.

[Fanblade]

I'm not so certain this isn't simply volley number 2 in a tit for tat bidding war.

Time will tell

[tallyho]

Thanks TPS

[Yycjetdriver]

Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.

[Rooster69]

Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.

Lol. Got the PFO letter from AC did you?

[Handover]

Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.

Lol. Got the PFO letter from AC did you?

Plenty of people in Canada aren't interested in AC. It's not the end all for everyone.

[Dry Guy]

What's your current job?

[altiplano]

Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.

You guys should get ahead of it and get applications in, maybe get a seniority number at Sunwing before the mass exodus of your colleagues from TS that will no doubt be heading there before the AC acquisition. You've avoided it all this time, why give in now? Hurry!

[Duke Point]

Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.

Lol. Got the PFO letter from AC did you?

Plenty of people in Canada that wouldn't touch AC with a barge pole. It's not the end all for everyone.

And no, I never applied, for me my current job is much better than anything AC could offer

Yup....rejected.

DP.

[Warden]

Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.

[Warden]

Instead of congrats I’ll offer my sympathy to all the TS folks who avoided AC for good reason and chose TS.

You guys should get ahead of it and get applications in, maybe get a seniority number at Sunwing before the mass exodus of your colleagues from TS that will no doubt be heading there before the AC acquisition. You've avoided it all this time, why give in now? Hurry!

Agreed. If they do come to AC with this attitude, they're not going to make many friends.

[eyebrow737]

Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

[FL320]

Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

Instead of shooting ourselves AT/AC pilots - as we earn almost the same peanuts - we should all work together as a team to improve our collective agreement if a merge happen (ours expires in less than a year btw)

[Diadem]

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

So why did you come back?
AC can pay so poorly because there are so many Canadian pilots, relative to the country's population. Obviously, there's more to it than just money if so many expats are willing to take a huge pay cut to come back. You can prioritize money, or the lifestyle and safety of living in Canada; of course everyone would like both, but when lifestyle is attractive enough to sacrifice pay, there's no motive for AC give any more than they are.

[eyebrow737]

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

So why did you come back?
AC can pay so poorly because there are so many Canadian pilots, relative to the country's population. Obviously, there's more to it than just money if so many expats are willing to take a huge pay cut to come back. You can prioritize money, or the lifestyle and safety of living in Canada; of course everyone would like both, but when lifestyle is attractive enough to sacrifice pay, there's no motive for AC give any more than they are.

I came back because my wife wanted to come back to be with her family. It was either that or get divorced. And no, I don't think the lifestyle here is better at all. 6 months of snow a year? You might like that, but it's not for everyone. Can you tell me what is better about the lifestyle here than... say Australia... where you get one month of vacation to start, along with twice the salary?

I know it was just Canada day, but you have a very small world view if you think the canadian lifestyle is the best.

[altiplano]

AC is out front on pay and most metrics of work conditions vs. all the rest.

ACPA has made some significant mistakes - no doubt.

But what has also held us back - straight out of the government appointed arbitrator's ruling in 2012 - is the lesser contracts at Westjet and Air Transat where those sub-standard conditions were imposed on us despite being voted down by the members.

Why isn't WJ pay on par with SWA? or Alaska even? Why can't they even just top us here or there?

Overseas paid more? Largely due to superior tax regimes and the fact that no one would go unless it was significantly worth it financially.

US paid more? Because they all lift and push each other.

Canada? Nothing of the sort. AC has been out front of everyone in this country perpetually on pretty much everything. Pension, benefits, pay, working conditions. That's a fact. Even when we get it stolen away (Raitt), we worked to get it back (pension, YOS upgrade, more) and that took sacrifice... and yet we are still out front. When is someone else in this country going to try to get even close?

[Hangry]

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

So why did you come back?
AC can pay so poorly because there are so many Canadian pilots, relative to the country's population. Obviously, there's more to it than just money if so many expats are willing to take a huge pay cut to come back. You can prioritize money, or the lifestyle and safety of living in Canada; of course everyone would like both, but when lifestyle is attractive enough to sacrifice pay, there's no motive for AC give any more than they are.

I came back because my wife wanted to come back to be with her family. It was either that or get divorced. And no, I don't think the lifestyle here is better at all. 6 months of snow a year? You might like that, but it's not for everyone. Can you tell me what is better about the lifestyle here than... say Australia... where you get one month of vacation to start, along with twice the salary?

I know it was just Canada day, but you have a very small world view if you think the canadian lifestyle is the best.

Sounds like you could be happier with a new marriage rather than a new company.

[Diadem]

I came back because my wife wanted to come back to be with her family. It was either that or get divorced. And no, I don't think the lifestyle here is better at all. 6 months of snow a year? You might like that, but it's not for everyone. Can you tell me what is better about the lifestyle here than... say Australia... where you get one month of vacation to start, along with twice the salary?

I know it was just Canada day, but you have a very small world view if you think the canadian lifestyle is the best.

I've lived overseas, and I wouldn't go back. I like that I can hop down to the river and go fishing. I like that I can go out into the woods on Crown land and pitch a tent wherever I want without a reservation or permit. I like that I can go snowboarding in powder, not manufactured slush. I like that I can have a yard with grass for my kids to play in rather than an apartment crammed into an endless city or a condo in a compound with no personal space. I like that I can walk to two craft breweries from my house, and live five minutes from where I work.
I don't care about the specifics of your circumstances. The point I was making is that there are a lot of Canadians who have gone overseas for work and are desperate to come back. Whether it's to make their families happy, to get their kids in better schools, to get out of an unstable country, whatever it is, they've decided that Canada is better despite lower wages. They, and you, are willing to sacrifice income for something in their personal lives, and they and you have increased the supply of pilots here by doing so. That keeps wages down, and AC knows that they will never run dry of pilots, even on what they already pay. You can bitch and moan about it, but you accepted their scale, so you're part of the reason that it won't go up. You can either live in Canada, or you can make absurd wages, but not both; you chose the former because of your personal priorities.
I would love to have both my own jet and my own house, but I can't, and I've chosen the house because it's more important to me. It would be pretty stupid of me to go whining to the bank about how they should give me a bunch of free money so I can have both when they don't stand to gain anything from it.

[sicamore]

I've lived overseas, and I wouldn't go back. I like that I can hop down to the river and go fishing. I like that I can go out into the woods on Crown land and pitch a tent wherever I want without a reservation or permit. I like that I can go snowboarding in powder, not manufactured slush. I like that I can have a yard with grass for my kids to play in rather than an apartment crammed into an endless city or a condo in a compound with no personal space. I like that I can walk to two craft breweries from my house, and live five minutes from where I work.
I don't care about the specifics of your circumstances. The point I was making is that there are a lot of Canadians who have gone overseas for work and are desperate to come back. Whether it's to make their families happy, to get their kids in better schools, to get out of an unstable country, whatever it is, they've decided that Canada is better despite lower wages. They, and you, are willing to sacrifice income for something in their personal lives, and they and you have increased the supply of pilots here by doing so. That keeps wages down, and AC knows that they will never run dry of pilots, even on what they already pay. You can bitch and moan about it, but you accepted their scale, so you're part of the reason that it won't go up. You can either live in Canada, or you can make absurd wages, but not both; you chose the former because of your personal priorities.
I would love to have both my own jet and my own house, but I can't, and I've chosen the house because it's more important to me. It would be pretty stupid of me to go whining to the bank about how they should give me a bunch of free money so I can have both when they don't stand to gain anything from it.

haha - where did you live overseas? were you one of the voyager types who did a contract in southern sudan and then come back to canada saying how wonderful it is compared to 'overseas'

You sound like an american boasting about how free america is compared to saudi arabia being definative proof of americas superiority.

Seriously, where in the first world can you not do any of those things apart from the powder - and I can tell you a number of european countries also has that. All those things that you talk about no one in Toronto has or has very little of. They are still canadians.

To insinuate that the rest of the world does not have wonderful places to live is nothing but naive. Where's the beautiful beaches in Canada with great scuba diving and crystal clear waters? Just because canada does not have it, it does not mean that it isn't a great place to live - just the same can be said about australia not having powdered snow.

This topic is old here - full of people like yourself saying Canada is a wonderful place to live, so therefore we sacrifice pay. You my friend are an enabler. To enable the group think that says we can't live in a wonderful place and get paid well. Case in point - Australia - mostly get paid double what we are paid here. Has all the things you talked about (sans snow) But they still get paid a lot more and have better benefits and START with 22 days vacation. Why can't we have that here? oh that's right, Canada is the best place in the world to live, so we have to make some sacrifices...

March to a new beat will you - one that can actually help Canadian pilots earn a just wage comparable with our colleagues overseas.

As to all the canadians desperate to come back... from where? the sandpit - some, In my experience most are quite happy over there. You maybe meet only the ones who did come back. Still plenty out there in countries all over the world that are quite content where they are. You obviously have not met them - which doesn't mean they aren't there, just that you haven't met them.

Oh, and do things without permits? You must live in alberta - for the rest of us canadians we need a permit to sneeze. I have never lived in such an over regulated country in my life.

Again - where did you live and work overseas??

from one of your posts

I've been in this industry well over decade, I have many thousands of hours, and I work for a 705. I have a family, I've lived all over Canada, and I've travelled to Latin America, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and South-East Asia

You don't say you have lived overseas there. Making this up as you are going along?

[Warden]

Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

You're welcome to leave anytime. I'll happily take your seniority number.

Not everyone wants to live elsewhere in the world. Some people want a GOOD job IN Canada, where friends, family and a familiar, safe and more or less well run society exists. Yes, we don't make enough based on the rest of the world and Canada has issues of it's own but there is still no where else I'd rather live. Settle down roots etc. I haven't lived in the ME or China, but I have lived in Europe and I still prefer Canada.

Just like some people want to live in Canadian society and will take a lower paid job (globally), you aren't much different as you came back to Canada to stay married. Not much different. We give up some things, in order to have other things. Life is a balance. Money is not everything.

[sicamore]

Any AT pilots who "wouldn't touch AC with a ten foot pole" you are all welcome to not come over when the time comes. Swoop, SW, Flair would all be happy to have you. Lots of AC pilots would be happy to see you go elsewhere if you feel you are too good to slum it at Air Canada.

As someone who has been with AC for over 5 years now after coming back from the sandpit - AC maybe the top of the pile here but when it comes to mainline airlines there is nothing to shout about. $2900 starting take home pay should be enough to keep good pilots away.

Even the states makes this place look cheap. Now as a captain again, I am earning 1/3 of what I was with benefits and vacation not even being close.

IMHO AC is the starting point with everything that is wrong with Canadian Aviation.

You're welcome to leave anytime. I'll happily take your seniority number.

Not everyone wants to live elsewhere in the world. Some people want a GOOD job IN Canada, where friends, family and a familiar, safe and more or less well run society exists. Yes, we don't make enough based on the rest of the world and Canada has issues of it's own but there is still no where else I'd rather live. Settle down roots etc. I haven't lived in the ME or China, but I have lived in Europe and I still prefer Canada.

Just like some people want to live in Canadian society and will take a lower paid job (globally), you aren't much different as you came back to Canada to stay married. Not much different. We give up some things, in order to have other things. Life is a balance. Money is not everything.

europe is not a country. Poland is different from norway, spain from romania. regardless, I came from australia. gave up 6 weeks of vacation, great health benefits and a starting salary twice and a house on the beach. You are dead on - we certainly give up some things when we move to canada. I'm just trying to work out what we get thats better. Care to enlighten?

yes - another wife who wants to be near her family.

[munzil]

Just like some people want to live in Canadian society and will take a lower paid job (globally), you aren't much different as you came back to Canada to stay married. Not much different. We give up some things, in order to have other things. Life is a balance. Money is not everything.

Some people do yes. It would be interesting to see if the americans opened up their visas to Canadian pilots, how many people would disagree with your point of view.

I lived and worked there for over 7 years. It's my view that the quality of life there is much comparable to here if you can put aside the political views. Never had a problem with seeing a doctor. Back here for three years and still waiting be 'assigned' one. Housing much cheaper, got paid a ton more, less taxes, less regulation, same vacation and lived in a beautiful place not far from the airport.

Don't let your patriotism sway you from the argument. There is no reason why pilots here shouldn't be paid equally apart from corporate cronyism and political interference.

[Duke Point]

Why would Justin allow a fairly well paid, non-professional group to exit the country with their tax dollars? He knows that someone has to pay for all his "low-income social programs". It would also create an immediate staffing problem for our larger carriers. We already know that CR has significant sway in the political arena.

I wouldn't hold my breath as JT and the US administration would both have to think its a good idea.

DP.