Westjet ad.

[Yycjetdriver]

Further context...
I am top scale Captain.
Last 2week pay....

$1700.

Bam!

And like $3300 in ESP. Tell the whole story man.

That’s meant for retirement. Imagine not having to crack into your retirement on a regular basis just to survive....

[moe]

Exactly

[DropTanks]

.

[ZBBYLW]

And like $3300 in ESP. Tell the whole story man.

That’s meant for retirement. Imagine not having to crack into your retirement on a regular basis just to survive....

Ummmmm no it’s not all meant for retirement. 20% matched is for retirement? No. Nobody puts 40% away for retirement. That just shows the exact wrong mentality about ESP. We HAVE NO RETIREMENT at WJ. We do have a cluster-fuckd method of pay though. You gotta gather more than like 5 brain cels to figure out that part of your ESP is for you to use as you wish. I’m not saying it’s awesome to be a senior captain here and have $1600 deposited into your account. But FFS it’s not the whole story. This guys netting $10k-$11k per month including ESP and per diems. And that’s while paying EI and CPP premiums at the start of the year.

I am at another LCC carrier in Canada. We were designed to compete with WS. On the 1st I get a pay advance of about $4100 which is higher after CPP and EI are done (next month) and my pay cheque on the 17th is for about $5,000 if I don't do any OT (last few months I whored myself out about so it will be closer to $8-10,000). I pay 10% into our version of the ESP (33% match) and put in 7.5% into my pension which the corp adds 175% of my contributions. I don't pay my mortgages with my T4. It's with what goes in to my bank.

As a country we are so far behind. We get taxed to high heaven (I pay paying >100k in income tax in 2019) cost of living is way higher than the USA and yet we are arguing there is more to it. As an industry we need to start asking for more.

[ZBBYLW]

Also per diem is NOT part of your wages.. it's to cover your expenses on the road.

[Hudson90]

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[DaveP]

Oh my!
This thread went sideways!
Dave

[flashheart]

DaveP,

I'll give you a qualitative statistic about WJ.

When I do run into WJ crew, they generally look bagged, are carrying enough bags that they look like they are part of some sort of caravan and are generally found sitting around airports killing time thanks to what I assume is unproductive flying.

Without proper protections, this is the result.

Not saying AC is as good as it should be, WJ is inevitably behind due to the lack of overseas flying which naturally is productive.

You guys can chase T4s all you want but when I see friends of mine at WJ that have gained weight and have aged 10 years in the span of 3 years I can tell you that my observation is that you guys are way way behind.

If you are 23, you can tolerate this for a while but it is not sustainable in my opinion. Look at US carriers, some that are entirely domestic and look at their schedules. They not only make more but work way less thanks to proper scheduling protections. But most importantly my friends at those companies don't look like crap.

Hi flasheart,

First and for most I’m not speaking for DaveP. It’s always nice to view an outside prospective . Ive been with WJ for 13 years. I’ve commuted from YHZ and YJT. I remember when I lost my job flying for an east coast airline. It was WestJet and DaveP that reached out giving me an opportunity to join the team. I had a few friends along the way to help,thanks to my dear friend K. Holland’s. WestJet was very open to commuters back then. All that was asked from us was to be professional and make our best effort to arrive at work on time. Not much to ask. I’ve never complained about commuting. It’s my responsibility. As for WestJet pilots looking like bags of shit! We all age differently. I’m not sure I really understand your motives there. We have a (CA) collective agreement now with really great adds. Nothing is perfect. I’m really excited for the future. Not just for WJ but for everyone that makes a place in their career. Trust me, I could have been worse off. I believe between WJ and ALPA Pilots today! We’re moving in the right direction to making a career here at WJ.

Cheers

It does NOT make me happy when I see this.

Yes, step in the right direction.

But we are on the bottom row of a snakes and ladders game. We, as a profession, deserve much much better.

I wish all WJ pilots the best

[Hudson90]

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[DropTanks]

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[altiplano]

That's not really accurate though.

I assume you pay your credit card off?

I see some people live on nothing but hotel coffee and Subway on the road, or tote around a ridiculous cooler with 4 days of celery sticks and carrots, maybe that's your MO to keep as much as you can. But even a head of celery and a 12" ham and cheese costs something. The cash - or at least all/most - doesn't stay in your jeans.

[Hangry]

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[K.Adams]

Hi
To again, simply quote before you start down the slag path:

“It's only gonna get worse with flow being reduced and all the folk leaving for AC”

If it’s spin then where are the numbers from Encore?

If you can’t post facts then I dare say the pot is calling the kettle black with reference to spin? Or koolaid or whatever you want to call it.

Scheduling satisfaction at Encore was 88 percent (capt/fo) with 12 days off as an average in YYC and 87/86 percent in YYZ with 12 days off for Capt and 17 average days off for FO’s.

I went back and validated my resignation list and it doesn’t support what Tail or Guilden claim.


Cheers

Can you confirm that WJ HR and AC HR talk to each other how many WJ pilots come over to AC per year? Is that why the encore hiring has slowed at AC? I know atleast 10 encore pilots with applications at AC within the past 3 months...im betting there are more.

[doiwannabeapilot]

Why would AC hr talk to WJ hr ???

WJ: please stop hiring our pilots.
AC: Oh, sorry about that. Ok.
WJ: thanks

I'll check on that bet; and raise you.
prior to 90 days ago, there were 11 or more Encore pilots with resumes at AC, AT AND SWG.
jaw dropping !!!!!

The numbers you used are comical. Like things drastically changed 90 days ago; and that 10 applications is a dramatic number.

[RVR6000]

Hi
To again, simply quote before you start down the slag path:

“It's only gonna get worse with flow being reduced and all the folk leaving for AC”

If it’s spin then where are the numbers from Encore?

If you can’t post facts then I dare say the pot is calling the kettle black with reference to spin? Or koolaid or whatever you want to call it.

Scheduling satisfaction at Encore was 88 percent (capt/fo) with 12 days off as an average in YYC and 87/86 percent in YYZ with 12 days off for Capt and 17 average days off for FO’s.

I went back and validated my resignation list and it doesn’t support what Tail or Guilden claim.


Cheers

Can you confirm that WJ HR and AC HR talk to each other how many WJ pilots come over to AC per year? Is that why the encore hiring has slowed at AC? I know atleast 10 encore pilots with applications at AC within the past 3 months...im betting there are more.

AC has a commitment to the AC brand regionals to hire a certain percentage of all new hires. They were lagging behind that ratio, in the last few months they’ve been playing catch-up. That’s why OTS hiring has slowed.

[rudder]

AC has a commitment to the AC brand regionals to hire a certain percentage of all new hires. They were lagging behind that ratio, in the last few months they’ve been playing catch-up. That’s why OTS hiring has slowed.

Lagging - yes. Commitment - not so.

There is an obligation to fill 60% of aggregate PIT course spots with Jazz pilots.

If there are any ‘commitments’ to any other AC brand regionals then they would be stacked on top of that obligation.

The only way for AC to obviate that obligation is that there are insufficient qualified Jazz applicants to AC.

[RVR6000]

I believe there were talks of Jazz ALPA filing a grievance for AC not obligating.

Haven’t heard of any specific deals with Sky Regional or now de-funked Georgian.

[Ash Ketchum]

I'm surprised to hear that AC can't keep the 60% Jazz hiring number because many at Jazz are waiting 6-9 months after interviewing to get a spot in ground school. May be because none of the Jazz guys have wide body experience.

[plausiblyannonymous]

Why would AC hr talk to WJ hr ???

WJ: please stop hiring our pilots.
AC: Oh, sorry about that. Ok.
WJ: thanks

I'll check on that bet; and raise you.
prior to 90 days ago, there were 11 or more Encore pilots with resumes at AC, AT AND SWG.
jaw dropping !!!!!

The numbers you used are comical. Like things drastically changed 90 days ago; and that 10 applications is a dramatic number.

Either you are bullshitting or you are sharing privileged information.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Canadian Pilot Unity!

[PA-18]

Drop tanks, you really bring down avcanada with posts such as your last one. I see it’s now gone now. Great. Any how you should do a bit of research on pension plans. More then half of private sector workers in Canada do not have pension plans, and for the ones that do, they still must put away money for retirement. Cash is king in whatever form it comes in even if you have to wait a year. Pension are locked, some, your kids and spouse won’t ever have access to either, it does not roll into your estate. I get it your take home every 2 weeks is low, but your t4 does not lie. Period, although I have to say after seeing some paycheques that the disability payments that westjet has setup with the providers are huge and should be addressed.

[jjj]

One advantage of a pension is that it saves pilots who are bad at money management.

The guy that said 20 percent of his income and the whole match from the company is for retirement is one of those that need help.

JJJ

[seriousflyer]

I'm been at Westjet 4 years. Encore flow pilot.
Take home pay is still less than I made flying king air 350. Cashflow per month is $3000. $2000/mth into employee share plan. Difficult to run a household with our setup.

If the union and company doesnt completely revamp the take home pay system by April 1, pilots will be preparing for another May 2018. Shame on the management for letting it get this bad and inefficient.

[fliter]

Cashflow per month is $3000.

You make $1500 per paycheck after 4 years at Westjet??

I'm a second year FO at a regional, and I make more than that with barely any overtime.

[Yycjetdriver]

Cashflow per month is $3000.

You make $1500 per paycheck after 4 years at Westjet??

I'm a second year FO at a regional, and I make more than that with barely any overtime.

We’re all in the same boat, Captains here also taking home that same amount, some with several years in the left seat. Once you contribute the 20%, give the tax man his chunk, pay for your benefits and then pay out the rest of the hands in the pot, a 10,000$ or more gross pay cheque quickly turns into 1500$ Net deposit.
It’s funny at times seeing the reaction of bank employees when trying to explain your take home pay and then what you do for a living.