So much for growth

[SPR]

With all the talk about rapid upgrades and FOs not being on their "industry-leading" scale for very long, it seems like the music is already stopping.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... nd-canada/

Flair’s U.S. investor, 777 Partners of Miami, recently sold five new 737 Max 8 aircraft painted in Flair colours to Babcock & Brown Aircraft Management, a company partly held by WestJet owner Onex Corp. WestJet declined to lease or buy the planes from Babcock & Brown because of the cost of refitting the planes to WestJet’s specifications, which include first-class seating sections, according to two people familiar with the matter. The Globe is not naming them because they are not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.

WestJet declined to comment. Babcock & Brown, which is marketing the jets, did not respond to a request for comment.

Babcock & Brown also purchased from 777 Partners two 737s built for Bonza Aviation, an Australian airline startup owned by the Miami investor.

Another three Flair 737s owned by 777 Partners were offered for sale but found no buyers, and the planes are parked in Arizona. Flair referred questions on the sale to 777 Partners, which did not respond to e-mails.

So much for F50. FOs better get comfortable in their seats and start doing some budgeting.

[tbaylx]

Cool story but status quo at Flair.

As much as our competitors would love to see us stop growing at their expense that won’t be happening anytime soon.

First class of 2023 150+ pilot recruiting starts Jan 9th.

[safetyfirst123]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

[tbaylx]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted by the OP, also states our 2023 fleet plans. The article is factual, however, the OP only partially quoted it and purposefully posted an alarmist topic in order to provide a half-story that was driven by his agenda.

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

[Index]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted above, also states our 2023 fleet plans

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

Planespotters.net indicates you have 29 aircraft registered in your fleet, which also matches what is listed on the TC registry...

According to planespotters, 6 are currently parked.. all of these planes have been delivered in the last 6 months. Can you explain why they are all sitting? Only logical reason I can see at the moment is not enough crew

[MKFlair]

Not false but doesn't have the full story. 777 Partners purchased over 100 aircraft and their delivery timing from Boeing was adjusted and doesn't reflect our need for the aircraft. Our requirements are 8 additional aircraft for the summer season with 2 arriving in March, 2 in April, 2 in May and 2 in June (last two in the autumn) and that schedule has not changed. For the aircraft owner it means those aircraft must sit with no earnings and, in the meantime, they found willing buyers. Flair still has those 8 aircraft coming this spring and may even take some early.

[SPR]

FLKO and FLKS are ex-Smartwings planes leased from AerCap that never flew a revenue segment for Flair. They were ferried to YYC, parked, and then ferried to TUS. They're now leaving the fleet, and they have nothing to do with 777 Partners.

[safetyfirst123]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted by the OP, also states our 2023 fleet plans. The article is factual, however, the OP only partially quoted it and purposefully posted an alarmist topic in order to provide a half-story that was driven by his agenda.

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

I appreciate your answer, I hope it works out!

[ogopogo]

So SPR, the honourable thing to do would be to change the title of your post, or just delete it.

[SPR]

So SPR, the honourable thing to do would be to change the title of your post, or just delete it.

Why? The issues in my last post weren't addressed at all. Not all of the aircraft that are being sold belong to 777, and I don't see how ferrying brand-new airplanes to TUS for storage is indicative of rapid expansion. It doesn't matter how big the fleet is if a bunch of the planes are parked in the desert and listed for sale.

[pacman007]

I agree, expansion is slowing rapidly. Tbaylx probably does not have any say in fleet size or aircraft acquisition.
His job is to recruit. Just saying

[daedalusx]

I agree, expansion is slowing rapidly. Tbaylx probably does not have any say in fleet size or aircraft acquisition.
His job is to recruit. Just saying

Dude they're literally running 2 GS per month this Winter/Spring ...

[Bacunayagua]

I was flying back from Europe a few days ago and heard a Flair callsign while crossing Ireland. I wasn't sure if I heard correctly the first time, but when I heard it the second time, it was definitely Flair.

Curious as to what a Flair bird was doing all the way out there.

[averageatbest]

I agree, expansion is slowing rapidly. Tbaylx probably does not have any say in fleet size or aircraft acquisition.
His job is to recruit. Just saying

Dude they're literally running 2 GS per month this Winter/Spring ...

Got to replace all the pilots going to AC

[pacman007]

I agree, expansion is slowing rapidly. Tbaylx probably does not have any say in fleet size or aircraft acquisition.
His job is to recruit. Just saying

Dude they're literally running 2 GS per month this Winter/Spring ...

Well that means nothing, back in the day AC literally laid people off in the middle of training. So having GS means nothing in my mind. The pilots will be the last to know if a slow down in growth is planned.

[Aviator12]

Does seem odd 777 would go through the process and piles of money to paint and outfit a bunch of 737s for Flair and now all of a sudden offer them up for sale…I’m guessing there is more to this story.

[RockSalty]

I mean if we take what tbaylx is saying at face value, they’re being sold to companies that then lease the tails to flair. I don’t really see the issue with that?

[accountant]

That wouldn't surprise me in the current interest rate environment.

AC does this quite a bit

[bezerker]

Does anyone remember that Boeing wasn’t doing so well not too long ago?

Imagine if someone bought a pile of MAX 8’s for $35 million each back then (to be delivered in the future).

Imagine as they were being delivered to you now that you could sell them to a leasing company for $60 million and you could lease the planes you sold to them at a good rate.

I’m making the numbers up, but just like pre buying condos, some companies are doing quite well on their gamble on the MAX.

[MKFlair]

As I wrote above - the timing of deliveries from Boeing to 777 was adjusted (not unusual in a purchase contract) and that delivery timing resulted in the aircraft sitting as Flair does not require the first aircraft until April 1. That is an expensive asset to have sitting and so some are being sold with the next deliveries being assigned to Flair.

None of this is unusual or unexpected given the scenario - can't sit expensive assets. The livery/paint is irrelevant as that is part of the Boeing delivery and, if sold, the new owner will simply re-paint.

[NovaBoy]

All the airlines are struggling to find not just competent employees, but employees in general. Great to have a full flight schedule with people wanting to travel, but it all goes to cr@p when they don’t have people to unload the baggage, or fly the airplanes, etc.

This is a people problem that the airlines do not want to pay for.

[CanadianPlane2020]

I know YYC is opening as a base in April; any plans of YXE or YWG bases anytime soon?

[flyinhigh]

I agree, expansion is slowing rapidly. Tbaylx probably does not have any say in fleet size or aircraft acquisition.
His job is to recruit. Just saying

Dude they're literally running 2 GS per month this Winter/Spring ...

So is PASCO, but that is not due to fleet expansion.

Flair is bleeding pilots as fast as they hire them, hence the South African recruitment drive which will undoubtedly fail (what could go wrong putting pilots in the seats that have not saw snow before)..

[safetyfirst123]

So is this Globe and Mail story false? Like when they wrote an article saying that Sunwing was for sale, which was strongly denied by Sunwing, but later proved to be true?

777 Partners has orders for up to 134 B737's with more coming, including the 737-8-200. They sell most of them to a variety of leasing companies who then lease them to Flair, Bonza, and other airlines. 777 Partners has sold most of the aircraft it has received and this is not a new development, nor will it affect Flair's growth plans. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding on how Flair is managing its fleet expansion.

The article, which was only partially quoted by the OP, also states our 2023 fleet plans. The article is factual, however, the OP only partially quoted it and purposefully posted an alarmist topic in order to provide a half-story that was driven by his agenda.

"Discount carrier Flair Airlines has boosted its planned summer seat offerings and flights by more than 40 per cent over 2022. The Edmonton-based airline’s fleets consists of 19 Boeing 737s, capacity that falls short of the planned schedule, but will add leased planes in the months to come, said Stephen Jones, chief executive officer of Flair.

“Flair Airlines is regularly taking delivery of aircraft, and anticipate we’ll have 27 aircraft by the summer of 2023, at different bases across Canada,” he said.

Sunwing is taking on three additional MAX's this spring. I heard these are some of the parked Flair aircraft?

[tbaylx]

I agree, expansion is slowing rapidly. Tbaylx probably does not have any say in fleet size or aircraft acquisition.
His job is to recruit. Just saying

Dude they're literally running 2 GS per month this Winter/Spring ...

So is PASCO, but that is not due to fleet expansion.

Flair is bleeding pilots as fast as they hire them, hence the South African recruitment drive which will undoubtedly fail (what could go wrong putting pilots in the seats that have not saw snow before)..

We aren't though. Our average resignation rate is about 4 pilots per month, mostly to AC. We're hiring 30-40/month for the expansion.

Any pilot, regardless of their experience, is thoroughly trained on our operations prior to being released. That includes pilots who have never flown a jet before and yet they seem to manage okay once released. I have no doubt that a 15 000 hour + experienced 737 pilot who managed to operate throughout Africa would manage winter operations just fine once properly trained.