Upgrade Times

[Loading...]

How long are the current upgrade times in YVR on the Q400?

[link821]

Think the most junior left seat on the most recent bid is a 2019 doh.

[Loading...]

Think the most junior left seat on the most recent bid is a 2019 doh.

Not very good at all. Im guessing this will be lower in the near future. But probably not instant like YYZ.

[ZBBYLW]

Think the most junior left seat on the most recent bid is a 2019 doh.

Not very good at all. Im guessing this will be lower in the near future. But probably not instant like YYZ.

Not very good at all? FYI, less than 5 years to go captain of a 705 plane in the nicest base in the country is unprecedented until the last few years. Enjoy the industry, but try not too come off as too entitled.

[cdnavater]

Think the most junior left seat on the most recent bid is a 2019 doh.

Not very good at all. Im guessing this will be lower in the near future. But probably not instant like YYZ.

Not very good at all? FYI, less than 5 years to go captain of a 705 plane in the nicest base in the country is unprecedented until the last few years. Enjoy the industry, but try not too come off as too entitled.

Yep, up until 8 years ago the most junior Captain YVR RJ was probably 19 years, Q400 was probably 15 years

[capt_Z]

How long are the current upgrade times in YVR on the Q400?

Are you planning to join Jazz?

[Nick678]

Considering fleet reductions and no movement to AC I would suspect upgrade times to only slow down.

[cdnavater]

Considering fleet reductions and no movement to AC I would suspect upgrade times to only slow down.

If there are fleet reductions, nothing has been officially said, just speculation by many.
If Jazz approached the union to try and fix things it’s possible they don’t want to reduce the fleet, the Jazz division is not making much but the leases make money for Chorus.
If the fleet is reduced and the flow is replaced with higher wages, you can expect upgrades to go back to what it was 10 years ago, only due to retirements. The pilot roster would stabilize around 1100 pilots for a fleet of 80 aircraft, with 30-40 retirements per year, upgrades would go back to 5+ years.

[Loading...]

Considering fleet reductions and no movement to AC I would suspect upgrade times to only slow down.

If there are fleet reductions, nothing has been officially said, just speculation by many.
If Jazz approached the union to try and fix things it’s possible they don’t want to reduce the fleet, the Jazz division is not making much but the leases make money for Chorus.
If the fleet is reduced and the flow is replaced with higher wages, you can expect upgrades to go back to what it was 10 years ago, only due to retirements. The pilot roster would stabilize around 1100 pilots for a fleet of 80 aircraft, with 30-40 retirements per year, upgrades would go back to 5+ years.

I heard they were retiring the 200s this summer. But I dont see how that would affect Q400 upgrade time

[cdnavater]

Considering fleet reductions and no movement to AC I would suspect upgrade times to only slow down.

If there are fleet reductions, nothing has been officially said, just speculation by many.
If Jazz approached the union to try and fix things it’s possible they don’t want to reduce the fleet, the Jazz division is not making much but the leases make money for Chorus.
If the fleet is reduced and the flow is replaced with higher wages, you can expect upgrades to go back to what it was 10 years ago, only due to retirements. The pilot roster would stabilize around 1100 pilots for a fleet of 80 aircraft, with 30-40 retirements per year, upgrades would go back to 5+ years.

I heard they were retiring the 200s this summer. But I dont see how that would affect Q400 upgrade time

First of all, so far that is only a rumour, nothing official announced from the company which is publicly traded company.
As for if they did retire them, that’s 15 aircraft, the pilots required to fly them would have to go onto another type, it’s not like they are laid off.
If you read everything I said above though, I gave two possibilities, of which both could happen, a reduction of the fleet and cancellation of the flow together would stagnate things for a while

[Loading...]

If there are fleet reductions, nothing has been officially said, just speculation by many.
If Jazz approached the union to try and fix things it’s possible they don’t want to reduce the fleet, the Jazz division is not making much but the leases make money for Chorus.
If the fleet is reduced and the flow is replaced with higher wages, you can expect upgrades to go back to what it was 10 years ago, only due to retirements. The pilot roster would stabilize around 1100 pilots for a fleet of 80 aircraft, with 30-40 retirements per year, upgrades would go back to 5+ years.

I heard they were retiring the 200s this summer. But I dont see how that would affect Q400 upgrade time

First of all, so far that is only a rumour, nothing official announced from the company which is publicly traded company.
As for if they did retire them, that’s 15 aircraft, the pilots required to fly them would have to go onto another type, it’s not like they are laid off.
If you read everything I said above though, I gave two possibilities, of which both could happen, a reduction of the fleet and cancellation of the flow together would stagnate things for a while

Except they were scheduled to be retired a few years ago. So really it will happen at any point now.
The RJs are not even close to being fully staffed, so im not sure if the retirement of the 200s would cause much overflow into the Q400.

[cdnavater]

I heard they were retiring the 200s this summer. But I dont see how that would affect Q400 upgrade time

First of all, so far that is only a rumour, nothing official announced from the company which is publicly traded company.
As for if they did retire them, that’s 15 aircraft, the pilots required to fly them would have to go onto another type, it’s not like they are laid off.
If you read everything I said above though, I gave two possibilities, of which both could happen, a reduction of the fleet and cancellation of the flow together would stagnate things for a while

Except they were scheduled to be retired a few years ago. So really it will happen at any point now.
The RJs are not even close to being fully staffed, so im not sure if the retirement of the 200s would cause much overflow into the Q400.

I think you’re missing the biggest variable I mentioned, there is talk the flow might be completely removed from the contract in exchange for more money, if the flow is gone, attrition will slow even more. How many OTS do you think AC would take from Jazz if they didn’t “have” to?
Even without the loss of flow the latest bid had a net 49 Captain vacancies, total company wide, only short 6 spots for the RJ with 31 Captains that DH for all their pairings out of YYC, we are not short staffed on the RJ, we are only short FOs on the RJ.
For 15 RJs that’s a reduction of approximately 105 Captain positions at 7 per fin, if those go there will be a reduction bid on the RJ, if YYC continues the way it is, that’s another 31 Captains looking for a spot!

[capt_Z]

First of all, so far that is only a rumour, nothing official announced from the company which is publicly traded company.
As for if they did retire them, that’s 15 aircraft, the pilots required to fly them would have to go onto another type, it’s not like they are laid off.
If you read everything I said above though, I gave two possibilities, of which both could happen, a reduction of the fleet and cancellation of the flow together would stagnate things for a while

Except they were scheduled to be retired a few years ago. So really it will happen at any point now.
The RJs are not even close to being fully staffed, so im not sure if the retirement of the 200s would cause much overflow into the Q400.

I think you’re missing the biggest variable I mentioned, there is talk the flow might be completely removed from the contract in exchange for more money, if the flow is gone, attrition will slow even more. How many OTS do you think AC would take from Jazz if they didn’t “have” to?
Even without the loss of flow the latest bid had a net 49 Captain vacancies, total company wide, only short 6 spots for the RJ with 31 Captains that DH for all their pairings out of YYC, we are not short staffed on the RJ, we are only short FOs on the RJ.
For 15 RJs that’s a reduction of approximately 105 Captain positions at 7 per fin, if those go there will be a reduction bid on the RJ, if YYC continues the way it is, that’s another 31 Captains looking for a spot!

Just saw a post for Air Canada Jobs for express pilots. Flow is still going on.

[cdnavater]

Except they were scheduled to be retired a few years ago. So really it will happen at any point now.
The RJs are not even close to being fully staffed, so im not sure if the retirement of the 200s would cause much overflow into the Q400.

I think you’re missing the biggest variable I mentioned, there is talk the flow might be completely removed from the contract in exchange for more money, if the flow is gone, attrition will slow even more. How many OTS do you think AC would take from Jazz if they didn’t “have” to?
Even without the loss of flow the latest bid had a net 49 Captain vacancies, total company wide, only short 6 spots for the RJ with 31 Captains that DH for all their pairings out of YYC, we are not short staffed on the RJ, we are only short FOs on the RJ.
For 15 RJs that’s a reduction of approximately 105 Captain positions at 7 per fin, if those go there will be a reduction bid on the RJ, if YYC continues the way it is, that’s another 31 Captains looking for a spot!

Just saw a post for Air Canada Jobs for express pilots. Flow is still going on.

Yes, for now there are 20 per month going over from flow.

[capt_Z]

I think you’re missing the biggest variable I mentioned, there is talk the flow might be completely removed from the contract in exchange for more money, if the flow is gone, attrition will slow even more. How many OTS do you think AC would take from Jazz if they didn’t “have” to?
Even without the loss of flow the latest bid had a net 49 Captain vacancies, total company wide, only short 6 spots for the RJ with 31 Captains that DH for all their pairings out of YYC, we are not short staffed on the RJ, we are only short FOs on the RJ.
For 15 RJs that’s a reduction of approximately 105 Captain positions at 7 per fin, if those go there will be a reduction bid on the RJ, if YYC continues the way it is, that’s another 31 Captains looking for a spot!

Just saw a post for Air Canada Jobs for express pilots. Flow is still going on.

Yes, for now there are 20 per month going over from flow.

[schnitzel2k3]

I think you’re missing the biggest variable I mentioned, there is talk the flow might be completely removed from the contract in exchange for more money, if the flow is gone, attrition will slow even more. How many OTS do you think AC would take from Jazz if they didn’t “have” to?
Even without the loss of flow the latest bid had a net 49 Captain vacancies, total company wide, only short 6 spots for the RJ with 31 Captains that DH for all their pairings out of YYC, we are not short staffed on the RJ, we are only short FOs on the RJ.
For 15 RJs that’s a reduction of approximately 105 Captain positions at 7 per fin, if those go there will be a reduction bid on the RJ, if YYC continues the way it is, that’s another 31 Captains looking for a spot!

Just saw a post for Air Canada Jobs for express pilots. Flow is still going on.

Yes, for now there are 20 per month going over from flow.

The only reason they are flowing is cause Porter is hiring from the same pool. It's a manpower play.

[QKZXKV]

If there are fleet reductions, nothing has been officially said, just speculation by many.
If Jazz approached the union to try and fix things it’s possible they don’t want to reduce the fleet, the Jazz division is not making much but the leases make money for Chorus.
If the fleet is reduced and the flow is replaced with higher wages, you can expect upgrades to go back to what it was 10 years ago, only due to retirements. The pilot roster would stabilize around 1100 pilots for a fleet of 80 aircraft, with 30-40 retirements per year, upgrades would go back to 5+ years.

I heard they were retiring the 200s this summer. But I dont see how that would affect Q400 upgrade time

First of all, so far that is only a rumour, nothing official announced from the company which is publicly traded company.
As for if they did retire them, that’s 15 aircraft, the pilots required to fly them would have to go onto another type, it’s not like they are laid off.
If you read everything I said above though, I gave two possibilities, of which both could happen, a reduction of the fleet and cancellation of the flow together would stagnate things for a while

Quite right, just a rumor. In fact, a number of 200s have been doing heavy checks in YHZ and YYC. Those have all returned to service... I don't think all the 200s are going anytime soon.

[lownslow]

It's a manpower play.

And? They’re hiring qualified people as is their intent. The amount of main character syndrome found in modern pilots is truly insane.

[schnitzel2k3]

It's a manpower play.

And? They’re hiring qualified people as is their intent. The amount of main character syndrome found in modern pilots is truly insane.

To drain access to a specifically typed pilot before the competitor can at which point it's likely you'll see flow halt again.

Grabbing - what was it 20 odd E170 pilots from Jazz when they are seriously understaffed on that type screams desperate.

[rudder]

It's a manpower play.

And? They’re hiring qualified people as is their intent. The amount of main character syndrome found in modern pilots is truly insane.

To drain access to a specifically typed pilot before the competitor can at which point it's likely you'll see flow halt again.

Grabbing - what was it 20 odd E170 pilots from Jazz when they are seriously understaffed on that type screams desperate.

Why would Porter NOT HIRE type endorsed pilots? With the TPPC, it will save significant $$ and time in training. Also, the E jet CA being hired are (mostly) the most experienced E jet pilots in Canada.

The question that should be asked is - why would a Jazz E jet pilot not leave if offered a position at Porter?

[schnitzel2k3]

And? They’re hiring qualified people as is their intent. The amount of main character syndrome found in modern pilots is truly insane.

To drain access to a specifically typed pilot before the competitor can at which point it's likely you'll see flow halt again.

Grabbing - what was it 20 odd E170 pilots from Jazz when they are seriously understaffed on that type screams desperate.

Why would Porter NOT HIRE type endorsed pilots? With the TPPC, it will save significant $$ and time in training. Also, the E jet CA being hired are (mostly) the most experienced E jet pilots in Canada.

The question that should be asked is - why would a Jazz E jet pilot not leave if offered a position at Porter?

I'm talking about AC focusing their flow on draining the E170 pool, not just casually hiring through the Jazz program.

It makes 100% sense for Porter to attract and retain E1 guys. And yes the question is an interesting one regarding pathways for those candidate pilots. Porter is near or about 160k for E2 skippers. AC flat pay is about 100k less than that.

Interesting risk/financial PDM case study.

[CaptDukeNukem]

And? They’re hiring qualified people as is their intent. The amount of main character syndrome found in modern pilots is truly insane.

To drain access to a specifically typed pilot before the competitor can at which point it's likely you'll see flow halt again.

Grabbing - what was it 20 odd E170 pilots from Jazz when they are seriously understaffed on that type screams desperate.

Why would Porter NOT HIRE type endorsed pilots? With the TPPC, it will save significant $$ and time in training. Also, the E jet CA being hired are (mostly) the most experienced E jet pilots in Canada.

The question that should be asked is - why would a Jazz E jet pilot not leave if offered a position at Porter?

You’d be surprised. I know for a fact that some E1 qualified folks at jazz got PFO from porter. But that’s mostly far and few between. Porter is trying to keep the culture. Some people don’t fit in, and never will.

I guess the stack of resumes must be tall enough….for now. I don’t know.