dh89 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:52 am
Agreed with the need to eat but keep in mind ya'll, 58k is not hard at all to make up outside of flying. I personally do other stuff on the side which I absolutely do not like (not working the corner-yet...), to make ends meet and will not take any overtime from the company. It's a principle. This is our chance, all for one and one for all! let's act like a centipede with no busted legs!
humancentipede.jpg
Should I eat the cuddlefish and asparagus or the vanilla paste?
dh89 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:52 am
Agreed with the need to eat but keep in mind ya'll, 58k is not hard at all to make up outside of flying. I personally do other stuff on the side which I absolutely do not like (not working the corner-yet...), to make ends meet and will not take any overtime from the company. It's a principle. This is our chance, all for one and one for all! let's act like a centipede with no busted legs!
humancentipede.jpg
Should I eat the cuddlefish and asparagus or the vanilla paste?
RippleRock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:28 am
Way to got TO! You win the prize that comes with the "highest percentage of those listed to do voluntary work" outside your contractual obligations! You're SLAYING IT! Keep it up, you might win the CUP at this rate! An actual cup in TO, crazy times eh? Albeit the wrong one......but I digress.
The coveted Undermining Collective Unity Button is all yours! Wear it proudly, you just made it to the next round! May you rise to "mighty heights" on the backs of others efforts!
"Attaboy" from all the other bases actually pulling their weight and DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD!
What is it we are being "told" to do? Not pick up VO? Because I have not seen this memo.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:28 am
Way to got TO! You win the prize that comes with the "highest percentage of those listed to do voluntary work" outside your contractual obligations! You're SLAYING IT! Keep it up, you might win the CUP at this rate! An actual cup in TO, crazy times eh? Albeit the wrong one......but I digress.
The coveted Undermining Collective Unity Button is all yours! Wear it proudly, you just made it to the next round! May you rise to "mighty heights" on the backs of others efforts!
"Attaboy" from all the other bases actually pulling their weight and DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD!
What is it we are being "told" to do? Not pick up VO? Because I have not seen this memo.
What do you want the MEC or Charlene to do? Call you personally?
They literally told you to enjoy your time at home with family. Unless you have a second family in Sao Paulo, it's time to stay at home and fly your block. If you can't see that you're part of the problem.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:28 am
Way to got TO! You win the prize that comes with the "highest percentage of those listed to do voluntary work" outside your contractual obligations! You're SLAYING IT! Keep it up, you might win the CUP at this rate! An actual cup in TO, crazy times eh? Albeit the wrong one......but I digress.
The coveted Undermining Collective Unity Button is all yours! Wear it proudly, you just made it to the next round! May you rise to "mighty heights" on the backs of others efforts!
"Attaboy" from all the other bases actually pulling their weight and DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD!
What is it we are being "told" to do? Not pick up VO? Because I have not seen this memo.
You understand the MEC can’t spell it out for you. The company played their card, it’s time to play ours.
Starting to see a lot of junior pilots taking advantage of the seniors not listing for VO on the narrow bodies. This only works if everyone is on the same page, you can justify it however you want but the ask isn’t big. Enjoy your summer.
Like mentioned before, likely lots of new people with no union experience, who might not even understand why the MEC can't just come right out and speak directly. They need to appreciate the subtlety and reading between the lines required...
Always a few hundred midwits (I didn’t know!), shitheads (it’s in the contract!), narcissist heroes (I’m helping the customers, I’m important!), climbers (please promote me!), and near retirements (I don’t care, I’m gone in 3 months).
Look, there’s no IQ test. These people are good at flying airplanes not necessarily at strategic thinking. The key is keeping them away from the important decisions, which as a group we’ve been terrible at for the last 15 years.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:28 am
Way to got TO! You win the prize that comes with the "highest percentage of those listed to do voluntary work" outside your contractual obligations! You're SLAYING IT! Keep it up, you might win the CUP at this rate! An actual cup in TO, crazy times eh? Albeit the wrong one......but I digress.
The coveted Undermining Collective Unity Button is all yours! Wear it proudly, you just made it to the next round! May you rise to "mighty heights" on the backs of others efforts!
"Attaboy" from all the other bases actually pulling their weight and DOING WHAT THEY ARE TOLD!
What is it we are being "told" to do? Not pick up VO? Because I have not seen this memo.
You understand the MEC can’t spell it out for you. The company played their card, it’s time to play ours.
Starting to see a lot of junior pilots taking advantage of the seniors not listing for VO on the narrow bodies. This only works if everyone is on the same page, you can justify it however you want but the ask isn’t big. Enjoy your summer.
I can read between the lines and know what's up. I've been doing my part.
Short term pain for long term gain.
EDIT: I cannot speak for my other Montreal comrades.
Who could have imagined that this would happen? WHO?
Pilots "undermining the collective efforts of other pilots for over 20 years". Great new slogan, maybe a bag sticker. Pretty good show though!
Only a month ago........WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A THING OR TWO! WE'RE ALPA NOW, WE'RE SERIOUS! Right.
The first clear collective effort to show the Corp that we are finally dead serious after 2 decade of getting pounded, and what do we do? We trip over each other to grab the cash laying on the floor. So f'ing typical. It's tantamount to theft of others efforts.
You want to be taken seriously..... DO YOU??? What's the plan for that, and when is it going to happen, because it's apparently it's NOT NOW.
Every one of you better be FULLY AWARE that every pilot group at the ALPA "big table" has their eyes firmly fixed on our performance and resolve. We need to earn our seat. Are you worthy? ARE YOU? Don't put on the ALPA lanyard if you ARE NOT WORTHY OF IT. Don't "degrade the brand". Delta and United pilots won't appreciate it.
Maybe our real place is at the "little table". Cuz were sure acting like it.
FWIW......you WILL NOT rise to the levels of other Legacy Carriers if you do not unite, and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. I will not happen for you. Take a moment to consider what your role will be in this push for change. You need to decide if you are going to be part of the solution, or continue to be the problem.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:41 am
Who could have imagined that this would happen? WHO?
Pilots "undermining the collective efforts of other pilots for over 20 years". Great new slogan, maybe a bag sticker. Pretty good show though!
Only a month ago........WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A THING OR TWO! WE'RE ALPA NOW, WE'RE SERIOUS! Right.
The first clear collective effort to show the Corp that we are finally dead serious after 2 decade of getting pounded, and what do we do? We trip over each other to grab the cash laying on the floor. So f'ing typical. It's tantamount to theft of others efforts.
You want to be taken seriously..... DO YOU??? What's the plan for that, and when is it going to happen, because it's apparently it's NOT NOW.
Every one of you better be FULLY AWARE that every pilot group at the ALPA "big table" has their eyes firmly fixed on our performance and resolve. We need to earn our seat. Are you worthy? ARE YOU? Don't put on the ALPA lanyard if you ARE NOT WORTHY OF IT. Don't "degrade the brand". Delta and United pilots won't appreciate it.
Maybe our real place is at the "little table". Cuz were sure acting like it.
FWIW......you WILL NOT rise to the levels of other Legacy Carriers if you do not unite, and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. I will not happen for you. Take a moment to consider what your role will be in this push for change. You need to decide if you are going to be part of the solution, or continue to be the problem.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:41 am
Who could have imagined that this would happen? WHO?
Pilots "undermining the collective efforts of other pilots for over 20 years". Great new slogan, maybe a bag sticker. Pretty good show though!
Only a month ago........WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A THING OR TWO! WE'RE ALPA NOW, WE'RE SERIOUS! Right.
The first clear collective effort to show the Corp that we are finally dead serious after 2 decade of getting pounded, and what do we do? We trip over each other to grab the cash laying on the floor. So f'ing typical. It's tantamount to theft of others efforts.
You want to be taken seriously..... DO YOU??? What's the plan for that, and when is it going to happen, because it's apparently it's NOT NOW.
Every one of you better be FULLY AWARE that every pilot group at the ALPA "big table" has their eyes firmly fixed on our performance and resolve. We need to earn our seat. Are you worthy? ARE YOU? Don't put on the ALPA lanyard if you ARE NOT WORTHY OF IT. Don't "degrade the brand". Delta and United pilots won't appreciate it.
Maybe our real place is at the "little table". Cuz were sure acting like it.
FWIW......you WILL NOT rise to the levels of other Legacy Carriers if you do not unite, and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. I will not happen for you. Take a moment to consider what your role will be in this push for change. You need to decide if you are going to be part of the solution, or continue to be the problem.
Exactly +1
There must be a way to get this a msg out and create job action light without the union directly involved? Some (group, social media?) way to educate, hammer home and shame those actively working against the collective. The union can’t recommend job action outside bargaining but can’t something else somehow?
RippleRock wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:41 am
Who could have imagined that this would happen? WHO?
Pilots "undermining the collective efforts of other pilots for over 20 years". Great new slogan, maybe a bag sticker. Pretty good show though!
Only a month ago........WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A THING OR TWO! WE'RE ALPA NOW, WE'RE SERIOUS! Right.
The first clear collective effort to show the Corp that we are finally dead serious after 2 decade of getting pounded, and what do we do? We trip over each other to grab the cash laying on the floor. So f'ing typical. It's tantamount to theft of others efforts.
You want to be taken seriously..... DO YOU??? What's the plan for that, and when is it going to happen, because it's apparently it's NOT NOW.
Every one of you better be FULLY AWARE that every pilot group at the ALPA "big table" has their eyes firmly fixed on our performance and resolve. We need to earn our seat. Are you worthy? ARE YOU? Don't put on the ALPA lanyard if you ARE NOT WORTHY OF IT. Don't "degrade the brand". Delta and United pilots won't appreciate it.
Maybe our real place is at the "little table". Cuz were sure acting like it.
FWIW......you WILL NOT rise to the levels of other Legacy Carriers if you do not unite, and DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. I will not happen for you. Take a moment to consider what your role will be in this push for change. You need to decide if you are going to be part of the solution, or continue to be the problem.
Our MEC recommended we enjoy our short Canadian summer with our families. It isn't summer yet. There should be no complaint with doing VO now, but come next month and August it will be a different story. Save the jabs till warranted.
Our MEC recommended we enjoy our short Canadian summer with our families. It isn't summer yet. There should be no complaint with doing VO now, but come next month and August it will be a different story. Save the jabs till warranted.
It's time, the time starts now. We filed a notice to bargain. The company took away the B1 passes. Your colleagues are standing down on the VO front.
If you don't see that, well hopefully we can work together inspite of you.
Our MEC recommended we enjoy our short Canadian summer with our families. It isn't summer yet. There should be no complaint with doing VO now, but come next month and August it will be a different story. Save the jabs till warranted.
The company didn’t wait to pull passes. Why wait to stop VO?
Our MEC recommended we enjoy our short Canadian summer with our families. It isn't summer yet. There should be no complaint with doing VO now, but come next month and August it will be a different story. Save the jabs till warranted.
UNREAL. Are you the guy that determines when "the jabs are warranted"? What criteria are YOU using? Your own? How about listening to the damn leadership who's job it us to actually LEAD. That's why they are there.
This started the second they pulled our B1's. That was a direct jab right at your head. What did you miss? Attitudes like this sound like another "money grabbing excuse" while the rest of us do our part and actually LISTEN and ACT.
When EXACTLY do we "all pull together". Got an exact date in mind? Let us know. Meanwhile we'll do the heavy lifting for you. In vain obviously.
DEFERRING THIS DOES NOTHING BUT PUSH IT DOWN THE ROAD. Acting in a disjointed fashion makes look nothing but weak, in turn making our job HARDER later.
Our MEC recommended we enjoy our short Canadian summer with our families. It isn't summer yet. There should be no complaint with doing VO now, but come next month and August it will be a different story. Save the jabs till warranted.
1442927A-4344-4143-801E-F55915221A5A.jpeg (131.8 KiB) Viewed 4283 times
We are really ACPA to the core. Epic levels of VO being done in direct violation of our leaderships message. I guess someone needs to be "dead last" in the industry. We are not worthy of our US brethern. So be it.
I'll continue to pull on my end, let me know when the rest of you get your collective $hit together.
I'm going to bid the forum farewell for a spell. Good luck all.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:33 am
I'm going to bid the forum farewell for a spell.
Good idea - you’re going to give yourself an aneurism or something. Put your phone down, get out of the house, take a few deep breaths, and try to think of ANYTHING other than the airline biz for 30 seconds. Just 30 seconds.
RippleRock wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:33 am
My ALPA lanyard goes in the bin today.
We are really ACPA to the core. Epic levels of VO being done in direct violation of our leaderships message. I guess someone needs to be "dead last" in the industry. We are not worthy of our US brethern. So be it.
I'll continue to pull on my end, let me know when the rest of you get your collective $hit together.
I'm going to bid the forum farewell for a spell. Good luck all.
All too busy fighting for the scraps from managements table..
I’ve never seen a group with so much leverage, choose not to use it.
I retire within a year and have very little skin in this game, other than the desire to leave this business in better shape than when I joined. But when we get a crappy contract, I’m just going to sit back and laugh.
Vanguard wrote: ↑Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:44 am
I do love how there seems to be a huge focus to ask guys on flat pay to not pick up any VO. Some guys happily admit they're even going to take LOC to pull through. No one ever thinks some of them are barely able to keep their heads out of the water to breathe. Some pilots can't even afford a LOC and shouldn't be expected to.
How about a focus on the Captains who continuously seem to pick up VO or guys off flat pay listing themselves. I refuse to pickup any VO but I understand many FOs aren't in the same boat as us, the Captains doing VO right now are holding everyone else back. People can continue to list but these planes don't get off if we don't show up.
We really should not be entertaining excuses. Next thing you know everyone will have one. Then even those holding the line will give up. I’ve watched it happen. The company is hoping for it.
Failure in any Unity exercise could have devastating consequences. If the numbers grow small individuals may get targeted. Again. I’ve watched it. Seen it.
Failure in a unity exercise weakens your NC and MEC
Flat pay pilots picking up VO, even though we all get why, is still working against their own best interests and the interests of the group as a whole.
CA picking up VO is unconscionable.
Excuses? Who do you think you are and what right do you have to tell another FO not to do what they need to feed their family. It’s not excuses — it’s desperate. I feel for anyone on flat pay. It should’ve been abolished long time ago. Having flown with some I’m hearing some dire circumstances.
It is sad that our FOs are at that point in Canadian aviation. Working at AC and making poverty wages. Again no captain should be picking up any VO however no one even on slack has the balls to say anything to them.
Half the guys calling out people on slack have actually picked up fair amount of VO last few months. I love the audacity some of these guys have. Call out the Captains. I know i will be.
The thing is any FO on flat pay right now knew exactly what they were signing up for at AC. If they can't "feed their family" it's because they painted themselves into that corner. They chose to be some of lowest paid pilots in the world by accepting the job. Now these desperate actions are undermining their future ability to feed their families too. They should know better, and if they don't, they need to be informed.
There once was a pilot named Ripplerock,
Whose demeanor resembled a caustic shock.
He grumbled and fussed,
Always union-bound, he thrust,
A troll in the skies, spreading words that mock.
His plane flew with turbulence and strife,
Passengers trembled, fearing for their life.
But Ripplerock cared not,
For his union, he fought,
With bitter words, he stirred up endless strife.
His demeanor, oh, so unhappy and sour,
He'd troll online, hour after hour.
But in the air he'd soar,
While spreading discord galore,
A pilot whose actions made many cower.
So if you're flying and meet Ripplerock,
Prepare for a ride that'll make you talk.
For this union-happy troll,
With his caustic control,
Leaves no one aboard in a state of shock.
We really should not be entertaining excuses. Next thing you know everyone will have one. Then even those holding the line will give up. I’ve watched it happen. The company is hoping for it.
Failure in any Unity exercise could have devastating consequences. If the numbers grow small individuals may get targeted. Again. I’ve watched it. Seen it.
Failure in a unity exercise weakens your NC and MEC
Flat pay pilots picking up VO, even though we all get why, is still working against their own best interests and the interests of the group as a whole.
CA picking up VO is unconscionable.
Excuses? Who do you think you are and what right do you have to tell another FO not to do what they need to feed their family. It’s not excuses — it’s desperate. I feel for anyone on flat pay. It should’ve been abolished long time ago. Having flown with some I’m hearing some dire circumstances.
It is sad that our FOs are at that point in Canadian aviation. Working at AC and making poverty wages. Again no captain should be picking up any VO however no one even on slack has the balls to say anything to them.
Half the guys calling out people on slack have actually picked up fair amount of VO last few months. I love the audacity some of these guys have. Call out the Captains. I know i will be.
The thing is any FO on flat pay right now knew exactly what they were signing up for at AC. If they can't "feed their family" it's because they painted themselves into that corner. They chose to be some of lowest paid pilots in the world by accepting the job. Now these desperate actions are undermining their future ability to feed their families too. They should know better, and if they don't, they need to be informed.
Sorry mate, picking up VO is still part of the contract then. A lot of them know there is VO to make ends meet. None of us have the right to stop people from doing what they need to do. Like I've said... Captains picking up VO to me right now is directly working against the pilot group. I don't really care if a FO on Flat Pay picks up VO to do what they need to. Every single FO here even the ones super loud and wild have picked up VO. Expecting the new guys coming in to live off just flat pay...Sorry who are we to tell them that.
