feeling a bit lost
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feeling a bit lost
I'm about 1/3rd through my CPL and was hoping to get my muli ifr as well, and find a job.
I currently have a good job but the economy is putting that and my flying dream in jeopardy. I'm a homeowner (though this is a big financial burden) so I'm not really able to move at a moments notice which is a big handicap.
I'm hoping to finish up the CPL by the end of the year and go for multi ifr when I save the funds assuming work is ok for my current job. Has anyone been in this boat? I feel a bit lost, especially at the idea of trying to find a first flying job especially during a bad economy with minimal savings.
I currently have a good job but the economy is putting that and my flying dream in jeopardy. I'm a homeowner (though this is a big financial burden) so I'm not really able to move at a moments notice which is a big handicap.
I'm hoping to finish up the CPL by the end of the year and go for multi ifr when I save the funds assuming work is ok for my current job. Has anyone been in this boat? I feel a bit lost, especially at the idea of trying to find a first flying job especially during a bad economy with minimal savings.
Re: feeling a bit lost
Aviation……. It’s a drug with highs and lows.
It’s not unreasonable to think about that coveted first job. We have all been there at some point in our careers. My first job was instructing then years spent flying in northern Canada. You will make many many choices in an aviation career that will have positives and negatives. Not knowing where you are located and training, all I can offer is keep putting one foot in front of the other. Do what is required to be in an employment position fully licensed. That may mean CPL with float only. Not everyone works for the airlines, or fly passengers in multi engine aircraft. Todays hiring outlook has never been better for low time hour pilots.
That feeling of being lost will come back in this career given the cycle of downturns, economy, and lack of job security. But what a ride it’s been, I’ve travelled and experienced places all over the globe that my parents never got to see. Met my wife working in the North, and built lasting friendships with the camaraderie this industry can provide. You’ll experience some negatives of this industry, but as someone who paid my own way through hardship and a decade of loan repayment. It’s been worth it.
O
It’s not unreasonable to think about that coveted first job. We have all been there at some point in our careers. My first job was instructing then years spent flying in northern Canada. You will make many many choices in an aviation career that will have positives and negatives. Not knowing where you are located and training, all I can offer is keep putting one foot in front of the other. Do what is required to be in an employment position fully licensed. That may mean CPL with float only. Not everyone works for the airlines, or fly passengers in multi engine aircraft. Todays hiring outlook has never been better for low time hour pilots.
That feeling of being lost will come back in this career given the cycle of downturns, economy, and lack of job security. But what a ride it’s been, I’ve travelled and experienced places all over the globe that my parents never got to see. Met my wife working in the North, and built lasting friendships with the camaraderie this industry can provide. You’ll experience some negatives of this industry, but as someone who paid my own way through hardship and a decade of loan repayment. It’s been worth it.
O
Re: feeling a bit lost
I doubt you'll have much luck finding a first flying job if you're unable/unwilling to move... If that's a dealbreaker, aviation might not be an optimal choice.
You can get more picky as you gain experience, but for that first job, you should take whatever you can get, anywhere in the country, or the world, really.
And yes, it's possible to find a job without moving, but you'll be limiting your options severely.
You can get more picky as you gain experience, but for that first job, you should take whatever you can get, anywhere in the country, or the world, really.
And yes, it's possible to find a job without moving, but you'll be limiting your options severely.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: feeling a bit lost
Agreed, being unwilling to move home base makes starting out in this industry a bit more challenging. Maybe renting out your house might be an option if there an opportunity afield.
Having said that, if you’re in a place with a bunch of tier 3 operators and small charter ops, there might be opportunity there, like with Pacific Coastal in YVR, or Bearskin in Ontario, North Cariboo in YYC, etc etc. another possibility is approach your flight school about future opportunities in instructing. It is daunting, no doubt. But if there’s a will, then there’s a way. There’s also the possibility of commuting positions, but these are not that common for entry level pilots. They are most common in survey companies. You would work a rotation schedule such as 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off. That could be one avenue that could work. Sander Geophysics in YOW comes to mind, as does Aries Aviation in YBW, and CGG in YOW. But these are also more difficult, although not impossible, to get into without at least a few hundred hours PIC.
If I can give one piece of advice, it would be to do as much of your time building at night as possible. Get that night time up as much as you can.
Good luck!
WP
Having said that, if you’re in a place with a bunch of tier 3 operators and small charter ops, there might be opportunity there, like with Pacific Coastal in YVR, or Bearskin in Ontario, North Cariboo in YYC, etc etc. another possibility is approach your flight school about future opportunities in instructing. It is daunting, no doubt. But if there’s a will, then there’s a way. There’s also the possibility of commuting positions, but these are not that common for entry level pilots. They are most common in survey companies. You would work a rotation schedule such as 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off. That could be one avenue that could work. Sander Geophysics in YOW comes to mind, as does Aries Aviation in YBW, and CGG in YOW. But these are also more difficult, although not impossible, to get into without at least a few hundred hours PIC.
If I can give one piece of advice, it would be to do as much of your time building at night as possible. Get that night time up as much as you can.
Good luck!
WP
Re: feeling a bit lost
As others have said, being where the flying is happening is pretty important to that first job. In hindsight, nearly all of my early aviation jobs happened because I was the pilot who was where the airplane was when it needed to be flown. You may be handicapping yourself if you are going to limit location of your flying based upon residence.
You might consider survey flying, where you might be away for a few weeks at a time, and then home - it's a start....
You might consider survey flying, where you might be away for a few weeks at a time, and then home - it's a start....
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Re: feeling a bit lost
Survey flying and rotational northern flying will be your best options. If you have no versatility after that, you are in for a tough time, but this is definitely doable and many have made it work!
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Re: feeling a bit lost
Your house being a burden all depends where you live.
Small town New Brunswick? Yeah you're pretty screwed unless you're cool with instructing at MFC your whole life. Live in the GTA? You could reasonably have your entire career and never go up north working the ramp.
I started my training when I was thirty and newly engaged so I understand some of the pain, still can't afford a house though...
Small town New Brunswick? Yeah you're pretty screwed unless you're cool with instructing at MFC your whole life. Live in the GTA? You could reasonably have your entire career and never go up north working the ramp.
I started my training when I was thirty and newly engaged so I understand some of the pain, still can't afford a house though...
Victimized by Boeing
Re: feeling a bit lost
I'd trade the house for a loving wife hahaTurkeyFarmYQX wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:13 am Your house being a burden all depends where you live.
Small town New Brunswick? Yeah you're pretty screwed unless you're cool with instructing at MFC your whole life. Live in the GTA? You could reasonably have your entire career and never go up north working the ramp.
I started my training when I was thirty and newly engaged so I understand some of the pain, still can't afford a house though...
Re: feeling a bit lost
Survey was high on my list! I'm wondering how realistic it is to get hired and what would make me stand out!wallypilot wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 4:43 pm Agreed, being unwilling to move home base makes starting out in this industry a bit more challenging. Maybe renting out your house might be an option if there an opportunity afield.
Having said that, if you’re in a place with a bunch of tier 3 operators and small charter ops, there might be opportunity there, like with Pacific Coastal in YVR, or Bearskin in Ontario, North Cariboo in YYC, etc etc. another possibility is approach your flight school about future opportunities in instructing. It is daunting, no doubt. But if there’s a will, then there’s a way. There’s also the possibility of commuting positions, but these are not that common for entry level pilots. They are most common in survey companies. You would work a rotation schedule such as 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off. That could be one avenue that could work. Sander Geophysics in YOW comes to mind, as does Aries Aviation in YBW, and CGG in YOW. But these are also more difficult, although not impossible, to get into without at least a few hundred hours PIC.
If I can give one piece of advice, it would be to do as much of your time building at night as possible. Get that night time up as much as you can.
Good luck!
WP![]()
Re: feeling a bit lost
Do you have decent equity? Have you considered selling your house and finishing your license asap then applying everywhere and moving?
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Re: feeling a bit lost
I'm in a similar situation. 15 years of seniority into my current unionized job and haven't found the fortitude to make the jump into quitting the job and going full-time into finishing my licenses.
The conventional wisdom is to get the training done and a seniority number at an airline ASAP, and in terms of salary area under the curve, that maths out. But personally, I'd rather have the licenses in my hand before I blow up a bridge behind me. It's taking me years to get my CPL, but at the same time I have a house, low-stress life, and a modest war chest of savings and home equity for if/when I'm ready to hunt for that first low-paying pilot job. That's a compromise I'm comfortable with for the peace of mind of hedging my risk.
I suspect that there's a survivorship bias involved with the advice of going all-in on taking on debt to get the training done. It works out very well for those whom it works out for, but what if you don't pass your check rides or you fail a medical? What if the industry takes one of its many turns before you're done training? Not much risk or that much to lose when you're 20, but if you're 40 it might be another story. Your tolerance for risk becomes a factor.
The conventional wisdom is to get the training done and a seniority number at an airline ASAP, and in terms of salary area under the curve, that maths out. But personally, I'd rather have the licenses in my hand before I blow up a bridge behind me. It's taking me years to get my CPL, but at the same time I have a house, low-stress life, and a modest war chest of savings and home equity for if/when I'm ready to hunt for that first low-paying pilot job. That's a compromise I'm comfortable with for the peace of mind of hedging my risk.
I suspect that there's a survivorship bias involved with the advice of going all-in on taking on debt to get the training done. It works out very well for those whom it works out for, but what if you don't pass your check rides or you fail a medical? What if the industry takes one of its many turns before you're done training? Not much risk or that much to lose when you're 20, but if you're 40 it might be another story. Your tolerance for risk becomes a factor.
Re: feeling a bit lost
There's not too many people on this forum who can use "area under the curve" and "survivorship bias" correctly....TalkingPie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2023 12:14 pm I'm in a similar situation. 15 years of seniority into my current unionized job and haven't found the fortitude to make the jump into quitting the job and going full-time into finishing my licenses.
The conventional wisdom is to get the training done and a seniority number at an airline ASAP, and in terms of salary area under the curve, that maths out. But personally, I'd rather have the licenses in my hand before I blow up a bridge behind me. It's taking me years to get my CPL, but at the same time I have a house, low-stress life, and a modest war chest of savings and home equity for if/when I'm ready to hunt for that first low-paying pilot job. That's a compromise I'm comfortable with for the peace of mind of hedging my risk.
I suspect that there's a survivorship bias involved with the advice of going all-in on taking on debt to get the training done. It works out very well for those whom it works out for, but what if you don't pass your check rides or you fail a medical? What if the industry takes one of its many turns before you're done training? Not much risk or that much to lose when you're 20, but if you're 40 it might be another story. Your tolerance for risk becomes a factor.

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Re: feeling a bit lost
Renting your house out could be an option as well. Depending on where it is, you could likely cover the mortgage payments with some spare change to help supplement the initial low wages.
Re: feeling a bit lost
I’m not sure any of us seasoned pilots can speak anymore about how to get the first job. The times are changing the days of starvation and “do what ever it takes” are disappearing in the rear view. I was helping a young guy get his first job up North and got a look at the letter of offer and just to work the ramp the pay was more… a lot more than I was making as a twin turbine training captain!!
You will have to decide what type of career you want to do. Airline? Yah stay in the city get on with a Jazz, pacific coastal, what ever westjets bottom end is and work your way up. But I would not put it off if that’s what you want. Get your training done and get in there because it’s all about the number.this route May take longer but could work out. Move up North really learn to fly and do cool stuff fly lots and in different machines and see where it takes you. The first job is still not going to be great but you get out what you put in.
If you’re experienced in another field and think you’re just going to make the same I don’t believe that’s going to happen and you have a golden handcuff situation. Only you can answer if your willing to make the change.
Every operator out there is looking for good people if anyone was looking for a job in aviation now is the time.
You will have to decide what type of career you want to do. Airline? Yah stay in the city get on with a Jazz, pacific coastal, what ever westjets bottom end is and work your way up. But I would not put it off if that’s what you want. Get your training done and get in there because it’s all about the number.this route May take longer but could work out. Move up North really learn to fly and do cool stuff fly lots and in different machines and see where it takes you. The first job is still not going to be great but you get out what you put in.
If you’re experienced in another field and think you’re just going to make the same I don’t believe that’s going to happen and you have a golden handcuff situation. Only you can answer if your willing to make the change.
Every operator out there is looking for good people if anyone was looking for a job in aviation now is the time.
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Re: feeling a bit lost
Pretty sure everyone here has been in this boat, and felt up the creek without a paddle. At this point, the choice is; be another person who has completed a portion of their training and quit, or soldier on to an uncertain future. Unfortunately nobody can make the decision for you, you have to weigh the costs and options and make a decision on your own future. You can hit the road and look for single engine jobs, or ramp jobs without your multi ifr, and commit to that later once you have an in somewhere.
Re: feeling a bit lost
co-joe wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:00 amPretty sure everyone here has been in this boat, and felt up the creek without a paddle. At this point, the choice is; be another person who has completed a portion of their training and quit, or soldier on to an uncertain future. Unfortunately nobody can make the decision for you, you have to weigh the costs and options and make a decision on your own future. You can hit the road and look for single engine jobs, or ramp jobs without your multi ifr, and commit to that later once you have an in somewhere.
Sage advice, thank you!PT6-114A wrote: ↑Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:45 am I’m not sure any of us seasoned pilots can speak anymore about how to get the first job. The times are changing the days of starvation and “do what ever it takes” are disappearing in the rear view. I was helping a young guy get his first job up North and got a look at the letter of offer and just to work the ramp the pay was more… a lot more than I was making as a twin turbine training captain!!
You will have to decide what type of career you want to do. Airline? Yah stay in the city get on with a Jazz, pacific coastal, what ever westjets bottom end is and work your way up. But I would not put it off if that’s what you want. Get your training done and get in there because it’s all about the number.this route May take longer but could work out. Move up North really learn to fly and do cool stuff fly lots and in different machines and see where it takes you. The first job is still not going to be great but you get out what you put in.
If you’re experienced in another field and think you’re just going to make the same I don’t believe that’s going to happen and you have a golden handcuff situation. Only you can answer if your willing to make the change.
Every operator out there is looking for good people if anyone was looking for a job in aviation now is the time.
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Re: feeling a bit lost
…demographics is on your side…simply put. Good economy or bad, the boomers are heading for the exits, and the opportunities for anyone with a licence and a pulse are great..compared to the previous generation. Even if a current Canadian operator goes bust and dumps 2/3/400 pilots on the street it’ll be a rounding error in what those that are still flying can and will happily absorb. Only thing that might stop us is Trudeau getting elected again and putting the carbon tax up again, the airport rents up and other stuff to stop our CO2 spewing machines from operating..unless of course he needs to go to Tofino or a southern beach etc. can’t wait till Canforce1 diverts for a mechanical from the billion he just took from the military…with Ukraine and China/Taiwan/Phillipines ready to boil.