Current Group 1 IFR?

[twinpratts]

Anyone else experience this? ‘Current Group 1 IFR required BEOFRE getting hired? Is this a thing now? And also: do any other regionals require this?

[Happyflyer78]

They want you to be flying currently, not making deli sandwiches!

Anyone else experience this? ‘Current Group 1 IFR required BEOFRE getting hired? Is this a thing now? And also: do any other regionals require this?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Anyone else experience this? ‘Current Group 1 IFR required BEOFRE getting hired? Is this a thing now? And also: do any other regionals require this?

What kind of question is this? Why would they hire you without one?

[twinpratts]

Specifically if a candidate was flying VFR exclusively for the last 12 plus months and their Group 1 had expired… at one time an IFR was actually good for 24 mos.

[twinpratts]

I was just asking if this was a recent change, since I had heard of others getting hired in the past after not having flown IFR in a year or two.

[Me262]

Are you back after 20 years break or what that you're asking this?

[twinpratts]

Hypothetically if someone out of flying school (commercial, M-IFR) was building time doing a VFR job for 10-14 mos, and now had 1,000 hrs tt and was hoping to get on at Jazz… (that sort of thing).

[702pipeliner]

Thr question about current ifr is more the 6/6/6 rule. People are probably getting hired saying they are currently when in all reality they arnt.

As long as you keep that up you are current. They are definitely cracking down friends of mine had to go to the sim and do some flying to get their recurrence sorted.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Hypothetically if someone out of flying school (commercial, M-IFR) was building time doing a VFR job for 10-14 mos, and now had 1,000 hrs tt and was hoping to get on at Jazz… (that sort of thing).

The reason it's a requirement is because they want to hire IFR proficient pilots. If you've been bombing around VFR for years, you're probably going to have a pretty tough time in their training program. Go for a few instrument flights with an instructor, redo your ride to get your IFR current and then apply.

[twinpratts]

It’s not for me, for someone just getting started… I was simply wondering if that’s a new rule at Jazz.

[cdnavater]

It’s not for me, for someone just getting started… I was simply wondering if that’s a new rule at Jazz.

I’m not entirely sure but I have a question, does the IATRA require a valid group one instrument rating?
We had a recent issue where a new hire could not do his PPC because of an “expired” IATRA. I’m not sure if this was the problem because I only heard second or third hand. I know the IATRA has a time limit to complete the requirements for the ATPL but wonder how they wouldn’t have caught this, as you are required to submit the IATRA with your application, so this leads me to consider it was invalid not expired.

[Happyflyer78]

Maybe they should hire experienced current atpl king air captains which would check off all the basic requirements easily.

It’s not for me, for someone just getting started… I was simply wondering if that’s a new rule at Jazz.

I’m not entirely sure but I have a question, does the IATRA require a valid group one instrument rating?
We had a recent issue where a new hire could not do his PPC because of an “expired” IATRA. I’m not sure if this was the problem because I only heard second or third hand. I know the IATRA has a time limit to complete the requirements for the ATPL but wonder how they wouldn’t have caught this, as you are required to submit the IATRA with your application, so this leads me to consider it was invalid not expired.

[twinpratts]

It’s not for me, for someone just getting started… I was simply wondering if that’s a new rule at Jazz.

I’m not entirely sure but I have a question, does the IATRA require a valid group one instrument rating?
We had a recent issue where a new hire could not do his PPC because of an “expired” IATRA. I’m not sure if this was the problem because I only heard second or third hand. I know the IATRA has a time limit to complete the requirements for the ATPL but wonder how they wouldn’t have caught this, as you are required to submit the IATRA with your application, so this leads me to consider it was invalid not expired.

Hmmm.
It used to be that you had two years after passing the IATRA to get a PPC, in order for it to essentially become a ‘frozen’ ATPL. My guess would be that if 25 months had gone by before the PPC was passed the IATRA written would no longer be valid…

[twinpratts]

Maybe they should hire experienced current atpl king air captains which would check off all the basic requirements easily.

It’s not for me, for someone just getting started… I was simply wondering if that’s a new rule at Jazz.

I’m not entirely sure but I have a question, does the IATRA require a valid group one instrument rating?
We had a recent issue where a new hire could not do his PPC because of an “expired” IATRA. I’m not sure if this was the problem because I only heard second or third hand. I know the IATRA has a time limit to complete the requirements for the ATPL but wonder how they wouldn’t have caught this, as you are required to submit the IATRA with your application, so this leads me to consider it was invalid not expired.

I’m sure they would love to hire qualified candidates like that if they could get them

[goldeneagle]

It’s not for me, for someone just getting started… I was simply wondering if that’s a new rule at Jazz.

I wouldn't consider it 'new' by any stretch. Back in the day it was required to have a valid instrument rating, and we did a flight test each year to renew it. If you let it lapse, it was no longer valid.

The annual renewal is gone now, but there are currency requirements, so they just want essentially the same as in the past, they want folks that meet the requirements to actually jump in an airplane on an ifr flight plan. That can be thru the 6/6/6 process, or a flight test. Heck, it's much easier / cheaper these days, the flight test can be done in a simulator.

Back in the 80's, at least half the business at the school I instructed for was pilots that had been out doing vfr work for a couple years, coming in to renew an expired instrument rating. That was the bread and butter during the winter months, float drivers off work, renew the instrument rating and try to get on to an ifr position before the next float season rolled around.

[twinpratts]

What I’ve been trying to ascertain through this thread, has been if the IFR actually expires (and training and ride are required), or if all Jazz is looking for is for a pilot candidate (who does not hold a type rating) to simply have completed the 6,6,6 currency requirement?) Lots of opinions, but it’s been difficult to get a conclusive answer.
BTW I still can’t give this young chap a straight answer LOL.

Perhaps a better question would be does an IFR ever EXPIRE, if you’ve never obtained a type rating?

[Chaxterium]

Perhaps a better question would be does an IFR ever EXPIRE, if you’ve never obtained a type rating?

IFR has nothing to do with obtaining a type rating except that for a 705 type rating you need to have an IFR rating. It doesn't need to be current. But you need to have one. The PPC will renew your IFR.

If your IFR hasn't been current for a number of years then you're going off into the weeds. I'm not sure how it works then. But in Canada your IFR never expires. You just need to regain currency. The PPC will do that.

[twinpratts]

Perhaps a better question would be does an IFR ever EXPIRE, if you’ve never obtained a type rating?

IFR has nothing to do with obtaining a type rating except that for a 705 type rating you need to have an IFR rating. It doesn't need to be current. But you need to have one. The PPC will renew your IFR.

If your IFR hasn't been current for a number of years then you're going off into the weeds. I'm not sure how it works then. But in Canada your IFR never expires. You just need to regain currency. The PPC will do that.

Thank you for clarifying
So Jazz’s request that a candidate have a current Group 1 IFR before being given a job offer, would simply mean currency requirements (6,6,6 it appears).
Thanks TP

[twa22]

This comment isn't specific to Jazz, but I still don't quite understand this general requirement of needing to have a current IFR (other then for obvious reasons relating to IFR flying competency)... like Chaxterium said, obtaining a PPC automatically renews your currency too... I had not flown for over a year at one point, so obviously I wasn't current, went and got a PPC and that renewed my currency too.

As far as the IATRA goes, you need to obtain a PPC within 24 months of writing the exam and that locks in your IATRA forever, you can go then obtain multiple PPCs indefinitely with just a CPL

[twinpratts]

This comment isn't specific to Jazz, but I still don't quite understand this general requirement of needing to have a current IFR (other then for obvious reasons relating to IFR flying competency)...

I agree. This was my understanding as well.. I’m beginning to think it’s simply a company policy, rather than a legal (CARS) requirement.

Thanks everyone for those of you that had constructive info.
TP

[twa22]

This comment isn't specific to Jazz, but I still don't quite understand this general requirement of needing to have a current IFR (other then for obvious reasons relating to IFR flying competency)...

I agree. This was my understanding as well.. I’m beginning to think it’s simply a company policy, rather than a legal (CARS) requirement.

Thanks everyone for those of you that had constructive info.
TP

I would say that it likely is a company policy, as I have seen the requirement on job postings at other airlines around the world that were/are hiring lower time pilots

[Happyflyer78]

Maybe they should hire experienced current atpl king air captains which would check off all the basic requirements easily.

I’m not entirely sure but I have a question, does the IATRA require a valid group one instrument rating?
We had a recent issue where a new hire could not do his PPC because of an “expired” IATRA. I’m not sure if this was the problem because I only heard second or third hand. I know the IATRA has a time limit to complete the requirements for the ATPL but wonder how they wouldn’t have caught this, as you are required to submit the IATRA with your application, so this leads me to consider it was invalid not expired.

I’m sure they would love to hire qualified candidates like that if they could get them

I applied back in mid September 2023, not contacted yet, my profile is updated regularly as well.

[‘Bob’]

It seems like people are confusing a bunch of different things, partially related to changing rules and changing pilot markets.

First is your Group 1. Once you get it you always have it even under old rules and new rules.

Second is expiry. You always have the rating but it expires unless you demonstrate the skill requirement to the Minister. This is either under a flight test administered by DTFE or a PPC renewal. Furthermore there used to be a requirement to re-write the IFR exam after so many years, but this no longer applies. Renewals can now also be done in approved simulators while initials still must be done in an aircraft.

Third is recency. 6/6/6.

Recency has never mattered in hiring. Obviously if you are getting your first IFR job you are most likely not recent and initial training will take care of this by either hours/approaches or resetting the clock 6 months.

A "current" IFR rating has always meant that you have demonstrated the skill requirement to the Minister within the last two years. Used to be you always had to be hired with a 'current' IFR rating. To chief pilots and HR representatives this is a known commodity. Don't want to have a candidate blow a PPC after investing time and money in training.

As the pool of pilots have dried up, it's changed to just having a Group 1 rating, as the PPC will make it current and recent. I remember having to shell out ridiculous amounts of cash to renew only to have to go through the whole thing again when I was hired.

Today the currency is treated more like recency. They don't issue licences or stickers with expiry dates anymore like they used to. A Group 1 renewal outside of a PPC is more like a refresher than an actual exam anymore from what I'm told.

It's possible that Jazz requires, or still requires, a current (skill requirement demonstrated within last two years) Group 1 IFR.

[EnJay]

Perhaps a better question would be does an IFR ever EXPIRE, if you’ve never obtained a type rating?

IFR has nothing to do with obtaining a type rating except that for a 705 type rating you need to have an IFR rating. It doesn't need to be current. But you need to have one. The PPC will renew your IFR.

If your IFR hasn't been current for a number of years then you're going off into the weeds. I'm not sure how it works then. But in Canada your IFR never expires. You just need to regain currency. The PPC will do that.

Thank you for clarifying
So Jazz’s request that a candidate have a current Group 1 IFR before being given a job offer, would simply mean currency requirements (6,6,6 it appears).
Thanks TP

Currency requirement in Canda is the 6/6/6 but also a flight test (can be done in a sim as well) to renew for 24 months. The PPC fills the requirement to renew the 24 months interval of the IFR.

As for the original question, I haven't be around as long as some others, but the valid IFR is the norm around for 703/4/5 companies I've heard the last few years.

[Flying.Pickle]

What if you had a Group 1, and upon renewal, it was conducted in a single engine?
Are you now current but only group 3? Even though there is no way to show that in the licence