Instructing and 703 ops

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

Post Reply
qwerty1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:37 pm

Instructing and 703 ops

Post by qwerty1 »

Does anyone know if 703 duty rest regs are affected by instructing.

In an example, if you work a 13 hour shift on 703 and want to flight train in the evening that’s completely fine because instructing has no rest regs. Assuming you’re off the next day.

What I’m trying to find out is if it’s possible to, for example, flight instruct from 8-10am then do a 12 or 14 hour shift at a 703 operation starting at 10:30. Basically training during a 12 hour min rest period.

Weekly, monthly, yearly hours are not even close to max. This is just on the topic of duty rest.

Qwerty1
---------- ADS -----------
 
ant_321
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by ant_321 »

If you feel working in the morning and then showing up to do a 14 hour duty day is reasonable then I really question your decision making skills.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Fly0nTheWall
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:58 pm

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by Fly0nTheWall »

Straight from the CARs 101.01:

"flight duty period means the period that begins when the earliest of the following events occurs and ends at engines off or rotors stopped at the end of a flight:

(a) the flight crew member carries out any duties assigned by the private operator or the air operator or delegated by the Minister before reporting for a flight,

(b) the member reports for a flight or, if there is more than one flight during the flight duty period, reports for the first flight,

(c) the member reports for positioning, and

(d) the member reports as a flight crew member on standby; (période de service de vol)"

I'll let you decide whether that applies to you. I would have to agree though...I'd question 1. your motivation and 2. your fatigue level, if you want to squeeze in 2h of flying during a min rest between (presumably) 2 max duty days.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4677
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by Bede »

700.27
(2) For the purpose of subsection (1), a flight crew member’s flight time includes
(a) the flight time accumulated from other flight operations; and
(b) the total flight time of a flight with an augmented flight crew.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 6784
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by digits_ »

Bede wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:39 pm 700.27
(2) For the purpose of subsection (1), a flight crew member’s flight time includes
(a) the flight time accumulated from other flight operations; and
(b) the total flight time of a flight with an augmented flight crew.
That's talking about the maximum flight hours in certain periods. That doesn't cover rest periods.
Maximum Flight Time
700.27 (1) An air operator shall not assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a flight crew member shall not accept such an assignment, if the member’s total flight time will, as a result, exceed

(a) 112 hours in any 28 consecutive days;

(b) 300 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

(c) 1,000 hours in any 365 consecutive days; or

(d) in the case of a single-pilot operation, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

(2) For the purpose of subsection (1), a flight crew member’s flight time includes

(a) the flight time accumulated from other flight operations; and

(b) the total flight time of a flight with an augmented flight crew.
I don't think it's illegal to instruct during your rest period, just like you could go work construction during your rest period, although you'll likely be a good contender to be violated with reckless behaviour. And rightly so....
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Ruger Princess
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri May 03, 2024 10:38 am

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by Ruger Princess »

I'd always worry about what if the trng flight doesn't go as planned and you're late for said 703 ops? You can't make them on your days off?
---------- ADS -----------
 
qwerty1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2023 2:37 pm

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by qwerty1 »

ant_321 wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:06 am If you feel working in the morning and then showing up to do a 14 hour duty day is reasonable then I really question your decision making skills.

We don’t all sleep 10 hours a night my friend. Or staying up on the computer all night, whatever is it.
If I’m driving 40 min into work and line up a circuit flight for an hour before my shift I don’t envy how fatigued you must be on a daily basis.
As mentioned, if I’m flying max 5 hours within a 12 hour shift, fatigue is not playing a role here.
Thank you for that truly thought provoking insight though
---------- ADS -----------
 
goingnowherefast
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2389
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Instructing and 703 ops

Post by goingnowherefast »

You have some weird logic. Do an hour of instructing, which includes briefings, so 1.5+ hours of actual work. Then do a max FDP at the 703, which is 13 hours. That's 14.5+ hours of work. Assuming you live at the airport, so there's no commute. Like the rest of us, I'm also assuming you like to eat, shit and shower, there isn't enough time in the day.

Granted most days aren't max 13 hours, but it's something one needs to be prepared for every day. Weather, mechanical, anything can delay a nice looking 8 hour assignment.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”