What's up with AC?

[deblasiflies]

Hi all.
Background context: I am about half-way through my TC PPL, deciding between US and Canada for flight school to Multi-IFR CPL.

Questions about AC:
- How bad is it for new hires, and how long does it stay that way? (in terms of workload, days off, vacation, etc)
- Are the pilots even likely to get the pay rise (examples I've seen are people asking for Delta pay) they are asking for? Some have said its likely while others have said its a pipe dream.
- Flat pay is likely to be extinguished, right? Unsure I want to work for $50,000 CAD before tax in the heart of Toronto...
- What travel benefits do you have? I.e.: standby on other airlines, firm tickets, ability to fly business on a staff ticket, etc
- How long would one be looking at for an upgrade?

If anyone has any other general comments for AC please share.

[Blueontop]

Hi all.
Background context: I am about half-way through my TC PPL, deciding between US and Canada for flight school to Multi-IFR CPL.

Questions about AC:
- How bad is it for new hires, and how long does it stay that way? (in terms of workload, days off, vacation, etc)
- Are the pilots even likely to get the pay rise (examples I've seen are people asking for Delta pay) they are asking for? Some have said its likely while others have said its a pipe dream.
- Flat pay is likely to be extinguished, right? Unsure I want to work for $50,000 CAD before tax in the heart of Toronto...
- What travel benefits do you have? I.e.: standby on other airlines, firm tickets, ability to fly business on a staff ticket, etc
- How long would one be looking at for an upgrade?

If anyone has any other general comments for AC please share.

Chill back, relax, start breathing..

But seriously, one could go through and answer all your questions but by the time you’re even in the position to consider sending a resume to big red the answers will be obsolete. Enjoy your training, especially your commercial time building, as you’ll likely never be able to control your flying and enjoyment from it ever again that way. When the time does comes to apply to AC then take a look at the WAWCONS. To briefly touch on your overall inquiry, I believe all these conditions will improve because they literally can’t get any worse!

Remember enjoy the scenery while on the journey, as much as or more than the destination

P.S. if you can get to the states to work don’t even look at Canada/big red

[deblasiflies]

Haha, thanks. I know that in my head, just don't have anything big to think about right now so its taking most of my "brain-power". It is very early to tell currently so I'll distract myself with the PPL written.

Thanks!

[flying4dollars]

Hi all.
Background context: I am about half-way through my TC PPL, deciding between US and Canada for flight school to Multi-IFR CPL.

Questions about AC:
- How bad is it for new hires, and how long does it stay that way? (in terms of workload, days off, vacation, etc)
- Are the pilots even likely to get the pay rise (examples I've seen are people asking for Delta pay) they are asking for? Some have said its likely while others have said its a pipe dream.
- Flat pay is likely to be extinguished, right? Unsure I want to work for $50,000 CAD before tax in the heart of Toronto...
- What travel benefits do you have? I.e.: standby on other airlines, firm tickets, ability to fly business on a staff ticket, etc
- How long would one be looking at for an upgrade?

If anyone has any other general comments for AC please share.

There's more than enough info on this forum for you to get a rough picture of the state of things now and what the goal is going forward. As was mentioned, by the time you're even marketable to AC, some of these answers would be very different than the case today.

[Heretobrowse]

-

[daedalusx]

Stud doesn’t even have wet ink on a PPL and already asks about how long to go left seat at the flag carrier.



Jesus Christ

[QKZXKV]

Stud doesn’t even have wet ink on a PPL and already asks about how long to go left seat at the flag carrier.



Jesus Christ

is right

Pretty rude awakening for someone this pretentious when it comes time to train for the actual licenses that matter (CPL and ATPL).

[crystalpizza]

Stud doesn’t even have wet ink on a PPL and already asks about how long to go left seat at the flag carrier.



Jesus Christ

is right

Pretty rude awakening for someone this pretentious when it comes time to train for the actual licenses that matter (CPL and ATPL).

Having long term career goals is not pretentious.

Taking it upon yourself to determine someone’s success in their future training/career based on two posts on a forum is.

You Canadian pilots kill me

[QKZXKV]

Stud doesn’t even have wet ink on a PPL and already asks about how long to go left seat at the flag carrier.



Jesus Christ

is right

Pretty rude awakening for someone this pretentious when it comes time to train for the actual licenses that matter (CPL and ATPL).

Having long term career goals is not pretentious.

Taking it upon yourself to determine someone’s success in their future training/career based on two posts on a forum is.

You Canadian pilots kill me

Goals is one thing i.e. " I want to fly for AC one day".

Dude hasn't even finished their PPL yet, and is asking about irrelevant topics like upgrade times. Search up the definition of pretentious and tell me where I'm wrong.

There's still the big uphill climb of getting a CPL and all the ratings, getting an ATPL, getting the experience to pass a command sim at the largest 705...

You (insert whatever miserable part of the planet you're from here) pilots kill me

[daedalusx]

Hey guys, I just finished my first week of CAF boot camp and survived my first bed inspection. So I was thinking about JTF-2, but I heard they have don’t even have PSQ-42, only PVS31s and there’s no air con in the LAV 6.0
So long will it take until I get CO and have my own unit ? Or just I just go south and become a Delta commander instead ?
My goal is to eventually get a Hollywood movie maybe Wahlberg could play me ?
Or should I go Seal DEVGRU and get a book deal first ?

[digits_]

Wow. So much hostility...

I bet that if the OP were to start a ropic to complain about the bad pay at AC in 5 years, the same people would be telling him he should have done some research before spending all that money on a CPL...

Anyway, regarding your questions. It's very likely that:
- AC salaries will go up, possibly significantly. However, how valuable that is depends on the economy. A 5 year contract with 40% gains would be meaningless if we have 10% inflation a year.
- Upgrade times will increase. AC has hired a lot. Lots of young pilots with more seniority and more experience than you ahead of you.
- Flat pay will change in some shape or form. Be aware you might have to accept salaries below 50k for a few years to collect the experience necessary to even qualify for an AC job. When pay goes up, more experienced pilots will apply and it will take longer for you to be competitive.

Also note that you do not need to work at AC to have a great aviation career. You also don't need to fly commercially to enjoy flying. Nothing wrong with sticking with a PPL.

[cdnavater]

Hi all.
Background context: I am about half-way through my TC PPL, deciding between US and Canada for flight school to Multi-IFR CPL.

Questions about AC:
- How bad is it for new hires, and how long does it stay that way? (in terms of workload, days off, vacation, etc)
- Are the pilots even likely to get the pay rise (examples I've seen are people asking for Delta pay) they are asking for? Some have said its likely while others have said its a pipe dream.
- Flat pay is likely to be extinguished, right? Unsure I want to work for $50,000 CAD before tax in the heart of Toronto...
- What travel benefits do you have? I.e.: standby on other airlines, firm tickets, ability to fly business on a staff ticket, etc
- How long would one be looking at for an upgrade?

If anyone has any other general comments for AC please share.

Like some others have said the landscape will be different by the time you are ready, so the answers are moot however you mention trying to decide on US or CDN flight school. Why is that? Is there something about the AC situation that has any effect on that decision, ie; would a flying school in the US help you for a US job, if so I say giver. I’m not sure what’s involved to convert your licence from FAA to CDN or vice versa, so if you plan to try and work in the US, it’s probably better to get the FAA licence(license), that would be my two cents.

[Hysteria]

Hi all.
Background context: I am about half-way through my TC PPL, deciding between US and Canada for flight school to Multi-IFR CPL.

Questions about AC:
- How bad is it for new hires, and how long does it stay that way? (in terms of workload, days off, vacation, etc)
- Are the pilots even likely to get the pay rise (examples I've seen are people asking for Delta pay) they are asking for? Some have said its likely while others have said its a pipe dream.
- Flat pay is likely to be extinguished, right? Unsure I want to work for $50,000 CAD before tax in the heart of Toronto...
- What travel benefits do you have? I.e.: standby on other airlines, firm tickets, ability to fly business on a staff ticket, etc
- How long would one be looking at for an upgrade?

If anyone has any other general comments for AC please share.

It’s good that you’re doing research before joining this career. Upgrade times could be longer but that’s so far out I wouldn’t even worry. Wait Until AC gets its new contract, then ask again. If ac is your endgame that is. WJ and Transat will have new contracts by the time you’re wrapped up training and your first job etc.

[vanislepilot]

You guys need to look at the big picture here. You want upgrade times to stay fast? You want gains? You need guys like OP and YOUNGER (I’m talking grade 12,8,6,3) interested in flying again. You need them to go against their parents and not become engineers, doctors, lawyers, AI developers(Nothing wrong with these jobs, but ive met too many people who wanted to be pilots and didn’t do it) All these kids are required to ensure your career progresses, if we keep doling out crap wages and awful insights to the trade people will stop coming. Training costs have skyrocketed as it is and OP doesn’t need people calling them “pretentious” because they are asking if the next $90K worth of training is going to pay off. Show some actual unity and welcome a rookie with open arms.

[rookiepilot]

I looked up his first post.

Kid is 17. 17!

Do you remember being 17? Having dreams?

Try to.

[Fanblade]

I looked up his first post.

Kid is 17. 17!

Do you remember being 17? Having dreams?

Try to.

And that keen. I remember that.

Welcome to the industry Deblasiflies

[fish4life]

Another thing to consider is the upgrade times at AC and WJ were opposite what they are now when I had my first job. WJ was the place to be with quick upgrades and AC (from the outside) seemed toxic with bankruptcy recently in the rear view and very little growth with long upgrades.

I’m happy now at AC but I do caution anyone looking at the upgrade times the last few years and expecting that into the future the last 10 years we have hired a ton and many of those pilots are young and won’t be leaving anytime soon whereas I’d imagine all that explosive WJ hiring from 2000-2010 will mean their demographic will be retiring soon and for sure by 2030 when you are realistically looking for a company to go to.

Also who knows where Porter / Transat will be in 2030 they may merge and be bigger than westjet or they may be much smaller.

[deblasiflies]

Thank you for your comments. The main reason I'm considering training through the US is the barely increased chance of being able to work there one day, but who knows with that. Conversions shouldn't be too much of a problem, for CPL (FAA->TC) it would just be a written test on laws and communication.
Upgrade question was more of a general question I threw in there, and I do know that low pay will be a reality for a while, as is the process with most jobs. Just makes high salaries even better

Just can't wait to be chief pilot of the AC 777 fleet...

[crystalpizza]

There's still the big uphill climb of getting a CPL and all the ratings, getting an ATPL, getting the experience to pass a command sim at the largest 705...

All things you struggled with in your own individual experience? You still haven’t explained why you think the OP has a “rude awakening” coming his way or convinced me you’re qualified to make such a prediction (not that there’s such thing anyway).

Like others have said, no downside to doing research into a career one is interested in before shelling out tens of thousands of $$$$ and time.

—

The upgrade time subject at AC is an interesting one. Not only are they likely to increase in the foreseeable future due to hiring tapering off, but the only reason they are currently as quick as they are to begin with is the poor pay and scheduling associated with the NB CA position. I personally know 3 senior WB FOs on one type and base alone that have openly admitted they’d rather be a NB CA and can hold it but specifically chose not to due to the poor lifestyle in comparison. If (when) the upcoming contract brings significant QOL improvements to the NB side, it is likely some of these WB pilots would bid over and the NB CA will become noticeably more senior due to that alone.

[rookiepilot]

Hey guys, I just finished my first week of CAF boot camp and survived my first bed inspection. So I was thinking about JTF-2, but I heard they have don’t even have PSQ-42, only PVS31s and there’s no air con in the LAV 6.0
So long will it take until I get CO and have my own unit ? Or just I just go south and become a Delta commander instead ?
My goal is to eventually get a Hollywood movie maybe Wahlberg could play me ?
Or should I go Seal DEVGRU and get a book deal first ?

Is this the way you would talk in person to a 17 year just beginning the aviation journey? Your son or nephew?

Cause you are the one who comes off looking a touch total pathetic here…..

[Old fella]

From this older fool who has been around three quarters of a century , there will be many thousands and thousands litres of water that will flow under the various aviation bridges from where you are starting PPL to your goal of a command position at the country’s largest carrier. Be prepared for everything and all by the time you get to your destination, enjoy the ride though. There will be fun times and miserable situations, good days and questionable decisions .

Have fun

[QKZXKV]

There's still the big uphill climb of getting a CPL and all the ratings, getting an ATPL, getting the experience to pass a command sim at the largest 705...

All things you struggled with in your own individual experience? You still haven’t explained why you think the OP has a “rude awakening” coming his way or convinced me you’re qualified to make such a prediction (not that there’s such thing anyway).

Like others have said, no downside to doing research into a career one is interested in before shelling out tens of thousands of $$$$ and time.

—

The upgrade time subject at AC is an interesting one. Not only are they likely to increase in the foreseeable future due to hiring tapering off, but the only reason they are currently as quick as they are to begin with is the poor pay and scheduling associated with the NB CA position. I personally know 3 senior WB FOs on one type and base alone that have openly admitted they’d rather be a NB CA and can hold it but specifically chose not to due to the poor lifestyle in comparison. If (when) the upcoming contract brings significant QOL improvements to the NB side, it is likely some of these WB pilots would bid over and the NB CA will become noticeably more senior due to that alone.

LOL, I worked hard to get where I did and was successful. I didn't once jump ahead to care about upgrade times at the highest level of employer in the industry. Have goals but be humble and worry about the process is what I'm getting at... The road to 705 captain is long and takes a lot of character.

And btw, there's absolutely no requirement for me to convince some bloke on a forum who goes by "crystalpizza" that I am or am not qualified to have my own opinion regarding a thread topic...

You don't matter

[digits_]

The road to 705 captain is long and takes a lot of character.

Is it? A bit of luck and proper planning and you could be there in 3 to 4 years. Not AC, but Encore or Jazz should be -theoretically- possible.

[currysonic]

There's still the big uphill climb of getting a CPL and all the ratings, getting an ATPL, getting the experience to pass a command sim at the largest 705...

All things you struggled with in your own individual experience? You still haven’t explained why you think the OP has a “rude awakening” coming his way or convinced me you’re qualified to make such a prediction (not that there’s such thing anyway).

Like others have said, no downside to doing research into a career one is interested in before shelling out tens of thousands of $$$$ and time.

—

The upgrade time subject at AC is an interesting one. Not only are they likely to increase in the foreseeable future due to hiring tapering off, but the only reason they are currently as quick as they are to begin with is the poor pay and scheduling associated with the NB CA position. I personally know 3 senior WB FOs on one type and base alone that have openly admitted they’d rather be a NB CA and can hold it but specifically chose not to due to the poor lifestyle in comparison. If (when) the upcoming contract brings significant QOL improvements to the NB side, it is likely some of these WB pilots would bid over and the NB CA will become noticeably more senior due to that alone.

LOL, I worked hard to get where I did and was successful. I didn't once jump ahead to care about upgrade times at the highest level of employer in the industry. Have goals but be humble and worry about the process is what I'm getting at... The road to 705 captain is long and takes a lot of character.

And btw, there's absolutely no requirement for me to convince some bloke on a forum who goes by "crystalpizza" that I am or am not qualified to have my own opinion regarding a thread topic...

You don't matter

Exactly! The real person who you have to convince is me… CURRYsonic

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Well you have great taste in curry. Japanese curry is the best!