What’s Going on at Jazz?

[lownslow]

I don’t have a horse in the race but I’ve been hearing some hot gossip. Some just standard rumour, some seem like credible observations of changes without really knowing the intent. People leaving, offices moving, a general realignment of internal procedures to match up with another airline.

They prepping for an announcement they’ve been sold or something?

[DanWEC]

They're also uniquely the only aviation sector stock in Canada up 22% in the last month. Nothing else is even remotely similar. Sonething's up I'd agree.

[rudder]

They're also uniquely the only aviation sector stock in Canada up 22% in the last month. Nothing else is even remotely similar. Sonething's up I'd agree.

That is CHR. Certainly possible that the market is pricing in an influx of cash to CHR based on an asset sale, but let’s evaluate that.

What is the value of Jazz? Does it have any assets? Few. Does it generate cash flow? No. Does it have a CPA guaranteeing revenue stream? No.

So then what is the value of Jazz to a potential purchaser?

Realistically the only potential alternative to status quo is a sale of Jazz to AC. AC can run it as it was when the AC regionals were wholly owned, or it can gut the non-operational infrastructure and run it like Skyregional.

Either way, I don’t see how CHR itself benefits other than a revised commercial agreement with AC (mostly based on aircraft leasing not aircraft operation).

CHR has been hovering in a penny stock price range for years. Hiccup fluctuations of a company with a market cap of just $500MM aren’t necessarily indicative of anything other than perhaps institutional investors taking positions.

[330heavy]

CHR use to be a great dividend stock. I suspect now a days the value and revenue is in the Falko division for CHR.

[Stable_Approach]

Selling to AC would be a logical move. They could keep the left seat at Jazz filled as seniority would be accrued and wouldn’t have to worry about flow, captain-qualifying pilots jumping ship or pipeline.

[lownslow]

Selling to AC would be a logical move. They could keep the left seat at Jazz filled as seniority would be accrued and wouldn’t have to worry about flow, captain-qualifying pilots jumping ship or pipeline.

If that happens would Jazz be the new flat pay?

[Nick678]

If(big if) the complaint by the Jazz MEC to the CIRB results in a financial payment I could see the amount higher than Jazz’s value(in AC’s eyes) At that point AC might just buy Jazz.

People have been thinking AC will buy jazz for years though

[cdnavater]

If(big if) the complaint by the Jazz MEC to the CIRB results in a financial payment I could see the amount higher than Jazz’s value(in AC’s eyes) At that point AC might just buy Jazz.

People have been thinking AC will buy jazz for years though

I don’t think buying the asset gets you out of a financial penalty to “harmed” people issued by the CIRB

[Me262]

Selling to AC would be a logical move. They could keep the left seat at Jazz filled as seniority would be accrued and wouldn’t have to worry about flow, captain-qualifying pilots jumping ship or pipeline.

The seniority debate would be a nightmare.

[rudder]

Selling to AC would be a logical move. They could keep the left seat at Jazz filled as seniority would be accrued and wouldn’t have to worry about flow, captain-qualifying pilots jumping ship or pipeline.

The seniority debate would be a nightmare.

What seniority debate?

[goingnowherefast]

A bunch of senior Dash-8 pilots could have the seniority to be widebody captains.

Jazz is significantly smaller than AC, I doubt people will get too worked up over it.

Everyone would have an AC seniority number, making the whole flow issue moot. Management could wash their hands of the issue because it would become a ALPA merger committee problem.

I see the potential benefits to management in this conspiracy theory.

[rudder]

A bunch of senior Dash-8 pilots could have the seniority to be widebody captains.

Jazz is significantly smaller than AC, I doubt people will get too worked up over it.

Everyone would have an AC seniority number, making the whole flow issue moot. Management could wash their hands of the issue because it would become a ALPA merger committee problem.

I see the potential benefits to management in this conspiracy theory.

I am not going to bother with a long and convoluted history lesson, but suffice it to say that AC owning a regional carrier did not and does not in and of itself mean that there would be a seniority list integration.

Having said that, any such transaction would be a good opportunity for the two pilot groups to perhaps examine creating a better model and do something positive for both the industry and the profession. If the corporation benefits that should be a secondary consideration.

[truedude]

I could see that if AC felt that the CIRB outcome might not be to their liking, that they might try to negotiate a settlement which could include some sort of universal seniority solution, tied to the ratification of the AC pilots contract.

But if they did buy us, I suspect they would keep running us as a separate company (at least on paper) but gut the entire operation and bring everything else into their operation, from dispatch to crew sched etc.

Fun to speculate... But I won't believe anything until I see it.

[Inverted2]

I’ve been hearing that Air Canada is buying us for the nearly 20 years I’ve been here.

Even if they do end up owning us I hope they keep the lists separate. I have zero desire to do long haul flying or in any seniority list debacle.

I already more than paid my dues doing reserve, working every weekend and holiday and shitty stand-up pairings so I can now enjoy a little more choice in my schedule.

[Man_in_the_sky]

you can be assured those who decided to stay at jazz would not get a free pass to a seniority number! BOTL, like every new hire.

[Partial EFIS]

Not if purchased... Everything and/or anything would be on the table.. Regardless of your particular opinion?? Better bid up quick??!!

[truedude]

you can be assured those who decided to stay at jazz would not get a free pass to a seniority number! BOTL, like every new hire.

No, that's not how it would go.

[cdnavater]

you can be assured those who decided to stay at jazz would not get a free pass to a seniority number! BOTL, like every new hire.

It guys like you that make me want it to happen just so I can laugh in your face, otherwise I would much prefer to keep my job the way it is until retirement!

[CaptDukeNukem]

You guys are actually mental if you think AC is buying jazz.

[dontcallmeshirley]

The fairest seniority solution in the event of a merger is date of hire.
No company rebid so that no pilot is kicked from their seat.
Any pilot who was at Jazz and was hired into AC from QK would have their original QK hire date honoured.

That said, AC is not purchasing QK. The crewing costs would increase substantially with no tangible increase in reliability.

[Stable_Approach]

The fairest seniority solution in the event of a merger is date of hire.
No company rebid so that no pilot is kicked from their seat.
Any pilot who was at Jazz and was hired into AC from QK would have their original QK hire date honoured.

That said, AC is not purchasing QK. The crewing costs would increase substantially with no tangible increase in reliability.

There is lots of benefit. Right now the captain wages at Jazz are so low they can't find any qualified DECs. Captains are not sticking around long and that's creating a shortage. FOs qualified are not upgrading as to not hurt their chances of getting flow to AC. Without captains and training captains you are going to affect reliability to service. Jazz has a contract already in place so AC has a lot of time before it needs to renegotiate pilot wages. I see a lot of benefit to AC management in this move. The seniority mess will be left to the pilot group and union to deal with.

[Fanblade]

A bunch of senior Dash-8 pilots could have the seniority to be widebody captains.

Jazz is significantly smaller than AC, I doubt people will get too worked up over it.

Everyone would have an AC seniority number, making the whole flow issue moot. Management could wash their hands of the issue because it would become a ALPA merger committee problem.

I see the potential benefits to management in this conspiracy theory.

I am not going to bother with a long and convoluted history lesson, but suffice it to say that AC owning a regional carrier did not and does not in and of itself mean that there would be a seniority list integration.

Listen to Rudder. Air BC, Air Ontario, Air Alliance and Air Nova all ran as wholly owned subsidiaries of Air Canada in the past. Owning Jazz does not necessarily mean operational integration.

Air Canada needs a regional cost structure. If they lose it they will need to create another one. Although purchasing Jazz to run as a wholly owned subsidiary might make sense. An operational integration does not.

Even if an operational merger were to happened, the Pitcher award was an end tail of the Regional pilots below AC pilots with one exception. The 243 that were furloughed at the time were integrated with the regional pilots. But it was basically an end tail other than that.

Having said that, any such transaction would be a good opportunity for the two pilot groups to perhaps examine creating a better model and do something positive for both the industry and the profession. If the corporation benefits that should be a secondary consideration.

Again listen to Rudder. You have a very different mainline MEC today than in the past. Certainly their could be an opportunity to finally address this.

[Man_in_the_sky]

you can be assured those who decided to stay at jazz would not get a free pass to a seniority number! BOTL, like every new hire.

It guys like you that make me want it to happen just so I can laugh in your face, otherwise I would much prefer to keep my job the way it is until retirement!

You can retire from this forum anytime

[1759]

A bunch of senior Dash-8 pilots could have the seniority to be widebody captains.

Jazz is significantly smaller than AC, I doubt people will get too worked up over it.

Everyone would have an AC seniority number, making the whole flow issue moot. Management could wash their hands of the issue because it would become a ALPA merger committee problem.

I see the potential benefits to management in this conspiracy theory.

I am not going to bother with a long and convoluted history lesson, but suffice it to say that AC owning a regional carrier did not and does not in and of itself mean that there would be a seniority list integration.

Listen to Rudder. Air BC, Air Ontario, Air Alliance and Air Nova all ran as wholly owned subsidiaries of Air Canada in the past. Owning Jazz does not necessarily mean operational integration.

Air Canada needs a regional cost structure. If they lose it they will need to create another one. Although purchasing Jazz to run as a wholly owned subsidiary might make sense. An operational integration does not.

Even if an operational merger were to happened, the Pitcher award was an end tail of the Regional pilots below AC pilots with one exception. The 243 that were furloughed at the time were integrated with the regional pilots. But it was basically an end tail other than that.

Having said that, any such transaction would be a good opportunity for the two pilot groups to perhaps examine creating a better model and do something positive for both the industry and the profession. If the corporation benefits that should be a secondary consideration.

Again listen to Rudder. You have a very different mainline MEC today than in the past. Certainly their could be an opportunity to finally address this.

This MEC won't even look at this...

[CaptDukeNukem]

you can be assured those who decided to stay at jazz would not get a free pass to a seniority number! BOTL, like every new hire.

It guys like you that make me want it to happen just so I can laugh in your face, otherwise I would much prefer to keep my job the way it is until retirement!

You can retire from this forum anytime

lol.