Grievance update for the 285ish former Jazz pilots affected by Flow

[cdnavater]

Can someone name:

1) any other major airline that flies regional jets

NONE

2) a labour group that signs a 17 years deal

Just Jazz pilots

Additional question:

3) can someone name a time when career regional pilots were given DOH seniority at a major airline.
2025

Can anyone name a major airline that signed a 10 year agreement, removed scope protection allowing undercutting and when they finally negotiated barely got the same increase as the Jazz pilots under their long term contract?

[FelixGustof]

I thought Jazz pilots had to hold a medical which includes an evaluation on mental health

[truedude]

Can someone name:

1) any other major airline that flies regional jets

NONE

2) a labour group that signs a 17 years deal

Just Jazz pilots

Additional question:

3) can someone name a time when career regional pilots were given DOH seniority at a major airline.
2025

Can anyone name a major airline that signed a 10 year agreement, removed scope protection allowing undercutting and when they finally negotiated barely got the same increase as the Jazz pilots under their long term contract?

And again, Air Canada flew the original RJs; and the E190s, which are technically regional jets.

[troisrivieres]

I get the vibe that Jazz pilots are clueless on industry standards

[truedude]

I get the vibe that Jazz pilots are clueless on industry standards

The only one clueless is you.

[gqra]

I feel like some of you have lost the plot. The issue here is between Air Canada management and ALL the groups that continue to get fucked over. It is not Jazz pilots versus Air Canada pilots. Instead of throwing insults maybe educate yourselves first.

Here is some context:

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onla/doc/2 ... 24114.html

[Stu Pidasso]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

[Man_in_the_sky]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

Alot of the 285 already know it's not gonna change. Those numbers are lost till we retire, they are only seeking a fair compensation without hurting anyone else not involved.

[Booming]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

Alot of the 285 already know it's not gonna change. Those numbers are lost till we retire, they are only seeking a fair compensation without hurting anyone else not involved.

It's seems like it is the old farts that are delusional

[truedude]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

The CIRB has the ability to do just that.

[Stu Pidasso]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

Alot of the 285 already know it's not gonna change. Those numbers are lost till we retire, they are only seeking a fair compensation without hurting anyone else not involved.

It's seems like it is the old farts that are delusional

Let us have a brief look at the demographic, that is the 285. Hired at Jazz with 250 hours out of an Aviation College, hired at AC with 2000 hours, wall full of participation medals, head full of entitlement.

Dream on!

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

The CIRB has the ability to do just that.

Lol...Straight up is Claude feeding you this shit because he is desperate he might get recalled

[Hangry]

This is sad and disturbing.

[Chateau]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

The CIRB has the ability to do just that.

Lol...Straight up is Claude feeding you this shit because he is desperate he might get recalled

This must be it. No one could be this stupid to believe it though...right?

[truedude]

If any Jazz Flow Through Pilot thinks the existing Seniority List is going to get changed - you are completely delusional.

The CIRB has the ability to do just that.

Lol...Straight up is Claude feeding you this shit because he is desperate he might get recalled

You should do your homework. The CIRB has that power. That isnt desperation, that is reality. Doesn't meant they will use it in this case, but they do have that ability.

[truedude]

The CIRB has the ability to do just that.

Lol...Straight up is Claude feeding you this shit because he is desperate he might get recalled

This must be it. No one could be this stupid to believe it though...right?

The CIRB has that legal power. That is just simple facts. Doesn't mean they will use it, but they could. Why do you think ACA is hiring lawyers?

[PostmasterGeneral]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

[Me262]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

They fucked with Jazz's pilot pay. Classic creating a problem to fix it yourself the way you want. Let's see what AC's defence is, not Jazz's.

[truedude]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

As soon as word got out the Air Canada wasn't honoring flow, it made it 10x harder to hire at Jazz than previously. That flow agreement is binding, and isn't based on rainbows and sunshine. Add on to that that the industry was changing, and AC refused to acknowledge this fact and correct pay accordingly, which led to all the E-Jet guys going to Porter, and a good portion of the Calgary base going to WJ. Most of the Calgary guys left as soon as PAL was announced, as it was clear Air Canada would rather fail to honor its agreements than fix the situation making everyone who had planned to say at Jazz nervous to stay if they were young enough to move. It is pretty straight forward.

Air Canada created a situation, and then wants to blame everyone else for that situation. Add on to that that they directly interfered with negations to the point that the pay table came from them. They were told then it wasn't enough to fix the problem, which it hasn't. And with the reduced flow, and their refusal to honor their own agreement in the past, anyone who wants to go to Air Canada won't touch Jazz with a ten foot pole, except low time pilots.

[cdnavater]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

I love it! Create the problem and blame it on everyone else, the absolutely ridiculous thing, a pilot agreeing with that side of it, you deserve the vote for biggest retard!

[3rdWorldClassPilot]

Jazz has capitulated time and time again against AC

Hilarious to think this will somehow turn out different

House always wins. Especially against delusional "we will get em next time...Just one more round" patrons.

Good luck

[Man_in_the_sky]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

As soon as word got out the Air Canada wasn't honoring flow, it made it 10x harder to hire at Jazz than previously. That flow agreement is binding, and isn't based on rainbows and sunshine. Add on to that that the industry was changing, and AC refused to acknowledge this fact and correct pay accordingly, which led to all the E-Jet guys going to Porter, and a good portion of the Calgary base going to WJ. Most of the Calgary guys left as soon as PAL was announced, as it was clear Air Canada would rather fail to honor its agreements than fix the situation making everyone who had planned to say at Jazz nervous to stay if they were young enough to move. It is pretty straight forward.

Air Canada created a situation, and then wants to blame everyone else for that situation. Add on to that that they directly interfered with negations to the point that the pay table came from them. They were told then it wasn't enough to fix the problem, which it hasn't. And with the reduced flow, and their refusal to honor their own agreement in the past, anyone who wants to go to Air Canada won't touch Jazz with a ten foot pole, except low time pilots.

The E jet guys left because the merger was done at the same time as the classic got removed from the fleet. It causes the #1 in yul at SR to become #17 and in yyz, from 1 to 33…

Still today, the OG 175 CA from SR are getting bumped from above still. With no QOL improvement in the last 3 years and nothing on the horizon, can you really blame them?

[rudder]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

As soon as word got out the Air Canada wasn't honoring flow, it made it 10x harder to hire at Jazz than previously. That flow agreement is binding, and isn't based on rainbows and sunshine. Add on to that that the industry was changing, and AC refused to acknowledge this fact and correct pay accordingly, which led to all the E-Jet guys going to Porter, and a good portion of the Calgary base going to WJ. Most of the Calgary guys left as soon as PAL was announced, as it was clear Air Canada would rather fail to honor its agreements than fix the situation making everyone who had planned to say at Jazz nervous to stay if they were young enough to move. It is pretty straight forward.

Air Canada created a situation, and then wants to blame everyone else for that situation. Add on to that that they directly interfered with negations to the point that the pay table came from them. They were told then it wasn't enough to fix the problem, which it hasn't. And with the reduced flow, and their refusal to honor their own agreement in the past, anyone who wants to go to Air Canada won't touch Jazz with a ten foot pole, except low time pilots.

The E jet guys left because the merger was done at the same time as the classic got removed from the fleet. It causes the #1 in yul at SR to become #17 and in yyz, from 1 to 33…

Still today, the OG 175 CA from SR are getting bumped from above still. With no QOL improvement in the last 3 years and nothing on the horizon, can you really blame them?

There are less than 40 ‘OG SR’ pilots left at Jazz.

The question was never “Why are you leaving Jazz?” Instead it is “Why are you staying?”

Every one of them that left is doing better than if they had stayed (AC/PD/TS).

[PostmasterGeneral]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

They fucked with Jazz's pilot pay. Classic creating a problem to fix it yourself the way you want. Let's see what AC's defence is, not Jazz's.

So why did you guys vote yes to it? The ball was in your court.

[Man_in_the_sky]

What is Jazz’s defence as to AC breaking the exclusivity clause? AC is arguing, with pretty substantial proof, that they had to enlist the services of another regional (PAL) to do their flying, because staffing issues at Jazz made them incapable of completing all of the flying they agreed to in the CPA. If the CIRB agrees with this assessment, the flow agreement might be looked at the same way. AC will argue that if Jazz was already unable to fulfill their obligations due to staffing, why would they continue to make the problem worse by gutting their roster to honor the flow agreement?

A multi-faceted case for sure. Jazz MEC better have some kind of Hail Mary standing by if they want any chance of winning this thing.

They fucked with Jazz's pilot pay. Classic creating a problem to fix it yourself the way you want. Let's see what AC's defence is, not Jazz's.

So why did you guys vote yes to it? The ball was in your court.

Can't complain about any offer if at the end of the day, you vote yes to it.