Jaz Executive Spending

[Fowler]

Spending

[fixnfly]

What is the point of this poll? There's already a thread discussing the accusations of financial mismanagement from the Jazz MEC.

[truedude]

What is the point of this poll? There's already a thread discussing the accusations of financial mismanagement from the Jazz MEC.

The same people will keep spamming this board trying to create the illusion people are behind them in greater numbers than actually do support them. It is sad, desperate, and just pathetic. And to think these are professional pilots. This is juvenile behaviour usually reserved for children.

[truedude]

Spending

As mentioned, there are already multiple levels of oversight in regards to union expenditures.

[Fowler]

What's your beef with the truth? R.T.?

[cdnavater]

What's your beef with the truth? R.T.?

You don’t want the truth, you have 100% convicted him and nothing will change your mind!
He already outlined every single complaint, answered the fact that the expenses were approved by the voting reps which include the YUL reps!
You are a pawn in the vendetta from GR, it’s personal for him, these two were thick as thieves and had a falling out over the lack of information regarding the ULP, now he’s going after him, that is the truth!
He could answer every single question you have with legitimate proof and you would claim it’s a cover up!

[proper]

But then why not be transparent?
Why not release the records?
Don't be so angry. Have you even spoken to either of the fellows on the yul council? Try it.

[truedude]

But then why not be transparent?
Why not release the records?
Don't be so angry. Have you even spoken to either of the fellows on the yul council? Try it.

Again, the expenses are approved via the mechanisms in place to safeguard agaisnt fraud. So what these people are saying is that not only is the Jazz chair conducting fraud, but other people in ALPA at different levels are also complicit in these acts of fraud, or failing to do their job. Essentially, they aren't just questioning the chair, but the entirety of ALPA.

There are ways of dealing with these concerns through official channels. Dragging it out into the open is simply unprofessional. And showing expenses to everyone, with most of us having little context to give those numbers weight, makes it easy to twist facts. Given the chair lives in YUL but has been in the office much of the year given to the ULP and keep up with AC contract talks, what is the appropriate amount that is reasonable for hotels?

And our offices are borrowed at times by other ALPA memebes to conduct buisness on, IE Sunwing and Westjet used them at least once. So what is an appropriate number to spend on professional spaces in which not only our union members do buisness, but are often used to meet other professional groups. I have no comparison for this, but the people approving the expenses do.

So really it comes down to this, do you trust that ALPA, as an entity, has mechanisms to safely protect its members agaisnt fraud, or don't you? This is a large established professional union with thousands of members.

There is certainly a conversation to be had about if after 14 years it is time for the chair to step aside for someone else. But this is not the way to do it. And since it also appears that the same people making these accusations also wanted to have people to replace the chair, I would like to know who they wanted to appoint in the interm while a new chair is selected, particularly when we are nearing the finish line of the ULP. Because I definitely don't want the people who have dragged this into the public sphere, or who were flying 160 credit hrs while members were laid off during covid, anywhere near the reigns of power. Particularly when something as important as the ULP is progressing.

[RAIM]

Did Claude go on any other vacations on union dues besides the Hawaiian ones?

[Fowler]

Agree and disagree:

I agree there are steps in Alpa for every expense and oversight. This isn't the first nor last within Alpa and I'm sure they have dealt with actual fraud in the past.
The bigger question to all Jaz pilots is when these numbers come out, is this the model we want?
Is 215 nights in a hotel for a chairman, trips to Hawaii and god knows where, an office that is quite extravagant and a vehicle? The price tag will be the question to see if a 1000 pilot airline wants it.

I also disagree that they answered every expense. I am not satisfied with the Chairman's message. The numbers are being held back so I think that even if if if justified, it will be difficult for the group to swallow how much is being spent.

[rudder]

But then why not be transparent?
Why not release the records?
Don't be so angry. Have you even spoken to either of the fellows on the yul council? Try it.

Again, the expenses are approved via the mechanisms in place to safeguard agaisnt fraud. So what these people are saying is that not only is the Jazz chair conducting fraud, but other people in ALPA at different levels are also complicit in these acts of fraud, or failing to do their job. Essentially, they aren't just questioning the chair, but the entirety of ALPA.

There are ways of dealing with these concerns through official channels. Dragging it out into the open is simply unprofessional. And showing expenses to everyone, with most of us having little context to give those numbers weight, makes it easy to twist facts. Given the chair lives in YUL but has been in the office much of the year given to the ULP and keep up with AC contract talks, what is the appropriate amount that is reasonable for hotels?

And our offices are borrowed at times by other ALPA memebes to conduct buisness on, IE Sunwing and Westjet used them at least once. So what is an appropriate number to spend on professional spaces in which not only our union members do buisness, but are often used to meet other professional groups. I have no comparison for this, but the people approving the expenses do.

So really it comes down to this, do you trust that ALPA, as an entity, has mechanisms to safely protect its members agaisnt fraud, or don't you? This is a large established professional union with thousands of members.

There is certainly a conversation to be had about if after 14 years it is time for the chair to step aside for someone else. But this is not the way to do it. And since it also appears that the same people making these accusations also wanted to have people to replace the chair, I would like to know who they wanted to appoint in the interm while a new chair is selected, particularly when we are nearing the finish line of the ULP. Because I definitely don't want the people who have dragged this into the public sphere, or who were flying 160 credit hrs while members were laid off during covid, anywhere near the reigns of power. Particularly when something as important as the ULP is progressing.

Fraud is the deliberate misrepresentation of fact. I am not sure any of the duelling communications are alleging or replying to allegations of fraud.

However, how budgeted dollars are actually spent is most certainly a legitimate concern. Do we accept a federal budget and then never ask to see where those funds were spent? There was an instance in the past of an ALPA MEC Chair who was claiming ALPA per diem expenses EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR, including vacation days! All approved by the MEC Vice-Chair and fully paid by ALPA accounting. All good, right?

Given that the JAZ MEC at large both approved the budget(s) and approved the capital expenditures, it would seem there are fiscal accountability issues to be addressed that extend beyond the MEC Chair. It is a laudable objective to aim to reduce expense charges. But that must be audited and proven out over time. And sometimes, it isn’t just about saving $$ - it is the way the members would actually perceive those initiatives.

Further, if the JAZ MEC had no knowledge about ‘flow talks’ with the HAL MEC, what does that say about the level of communication and accountability within the JAZ MEC?

The JAZ MEC (1300 pilots) seem to act as if they are in the same league as the DAL MEC (17000 pilots) or UAL MEC (15000 pilots). Fancy offices. Fancy cars. Fancy trips.

It isn’t up to ALPA National to decide if that is right. It is up to the Jazz pilots who are paying for those amenities. The process is that members ask questions and their elected reps provide answers. There is a reason that per the ALPA Constitution any elected rep can be recalled. It ensures accountability.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Yup. Rudder said it best,

On a different note :

Type up your salary times 0.018 and see what you guys are paying. Maybe ALPA will even let you autograph the $3500 windshield wiper you just bought for CB

[braaap Braap]

Yup. Rudder said it best,

On a different note :

Type up your salary times 0.018 and see what you guys are paying. Maybe ALPA will even let you autograph the $3500 windshield wiper you just bought for CB

If youre going to run around here throwing this useless comment everywhere at least get the math right. 0.0185

[FelixGustof]

Yup. Rudder said it best,

On a different note :

Type up your salary times 0.018 and see what you guys are paying. Maybe ALPA will even let you autograph the $3500 windshield wiper you just bought for CB

If youre going to run around here throwing this useless comment everywhere at least get the math right. 0.0185

Jazz pilots pay that much in union dues so they can be stuck in a 20 years contract with 14 years of the same union head...lol

[truedude]

Yup. Rudder said it best,

On a different note :

Type up your salary times 0.018 and see what you guys are paying. Maybe ALPA will even let you autograph the $3500 windshield wiper you just bought for CB

If youre going to run around here throwing this useless comment everywhere at least get the math right. 0.0185

Jazz pilots pay that much in union dues so they can be stuck in a 20 years contract with 14 years of the same union head...lol

ALPA dues for everyone is based on the same calculation

[truedude]

But then why not be transparent?
Why not release the records?
Don't be so angry. Have you even spoken to either of the fellows on the yul council? Try it.

Again, the expenses are approved via the mechanisms in place to safeguard agaisnt fraud. So what these people are saying is that not only is the Jazz chair conducting fraud, but other people in ALPA at different levels are also complicit in these acts of fraud, or failing to do their job. Essentially, they aren't just questioning the chair, but the entirety of ALPA.

There are ways of dealing with these concerns through official channels. Dragging it out into the open is simply unprofessional. And showing expenses to everyone, with most of us having little context to give those numbers weight, makes it easy to twist facts. Given the chair lives in YUL but has been in the office much of the year given to the ULP and keep up with AC contract talks, what is the appropriate amount that is reasonable for hotels?

And our offices are borrowed at times by other ALPA memebes to conduct buisness on, IE Sunwing and Westjet used them at least once. So what is an appropriate number to spend on professional spaces in which not only our union members do buisness, but are often used to meet other professional groups. I have no comparison for this, but the people approving the expenses do.

So really it comes down to this, do you trust that ALPA, as an entity, has mechanisms to safely protect its members agaisnt fraud, or don't you? This is a large established professional union with thousands of members.

There is certainly a conversation to be had about if after 14 years it is time for the chair to step aside for someone else. But this is not the way to do it. And since it also appears that the same people making these accusations also wanted to have people to replace the chair, I would like to know who they wanted to appoint in the interm while a new chair is selected, particularly when we are nearing the finish line of the ULP. Because I definitely don't want the people who have dragged this into the public sphere, or who were flying 160 credit hrs while members were laid off during covid, anywhere near the reigns of power. Particularly when something as important as the ULP is progressing.

Fraud is the deliberate misrepresentation of fact. I am not sure any of the duelling communications are alleging or replying to allegations of fraud.

However, how budgeted dollars are actually spent is most certainly a legitimate concern. Do we accept a federal budget and then never ask to see where those funds were spent? There was an instance in the past of an ALPA MEC Chair who was claiming ALPA per diem expenses EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR, including vacation days! All approved by the MEC Vice-Chair and fully paid by ALPA accounting. All good, right?

Given that the JAZ MEC at large both approved the budget(s) and approved the capital expenditures, it would seem there are fiscal accountability issues to be addressed that extend beyond the MEC Chair. It is a laudable objective to aim to reduce expense charges. But that must be audited and proven out over time. And sometimes, it isn’t just about saving $$ - it is the way the members would actually perceive those initiatives.

Further, if the JAZ MEC had no knowledge about ‘flow talks’ with the HAL MEC, what does that say about the level of communication and accountability within the JAZ MEC?

The JAZ MEC (1300 pilots) seem to act as if they are in the same league as the DAL MEC (17000 pilots) or UAL MEC (15000 pilots). Fancy offices. Fancy cars. Fancy trips.

It isn’t up to ALPA National to decide if that is right. It is up to the Jazz pilots who are paying for those amenities. The process is that members ask questions and their elected reps provide answers. There is a reason that per the ALPA Constitution any elected rep can be recalled. It ensures accountability.

All fair questions. But do you believe airing the dirty laundry in a very public way is the way for these issues to be dealt with?

[cdnavater]

If youre going to run around here throwing this useless comment everywhere at least get the math right. 0.0185

Jazz pilots pay that much in union dues so they can be stuck in a 20 years contract with 14 years of the same union head...lol

ALPA dues for everyone is based on the same calculation

I wouldn’t bother with this troll, he’s isn’t even a private pilot, just graduated high school and loves trolling these forums!
When the ULP finally has its day in proceedings, those dues will be worth it, besides the other benefits over the years!

[Man_in_the_sky]

Jazz pilots pay that much in union dues so they can be stuck in a 20 years contract with 14 years of the same union head...lol

ALPA dues for everyone is based on the same calculation

I wouldn’t bother with this troll, he’s isn’t even a private pilot, just graduated high school and loves trolling these forums!
When the ULP finally has its day in proceedings, those dues will be worth it, besides the other benefits over the years!

Never wanted more to be right with you on this.

[rudder]

All fair questions. But do you believe airing the dirty laundry in a very public way is the way for these issues to be dealt with?

As a starting point? No.

But members have the right to ask elected reps questions AND receive fulsome responses. And elected reps have the right to ask the Executive questions and receive fulsome responses.

The problem is the JAZ MEC has tied itself up in so many NDA’s and MEC Policy Manual provisions that basically allow it to refuse to answer many very basic questions or to answer but then severely restrict the eligible audience or distribution of that information.

I have said it before - a membership gets the representation that it deserves. Things did not get here overnight. And I can assure you that there is no ALPA National Administrative Policy that says the membership are not entitled to know how their 1% of payroll dues (MEC Budget) is spent.

If you won’t put your expense report up on the crew room wall or share your budget then you have already answered the question.

[Me262]

In other countries where ULCC companies provide confirmed roundtrip tickets for commuters, legislation also allows employees to opt out of union on positions where union exists. You get no more representation if you need it, but you are still governed by the CA.

It's good to have options if you want them.

[FelixGustof]

Jazz pilots pay that much in union dues so they can be stuck in a 20 years contract with 14 years of the same union head...lol

ALPA dues for everyone is based on the same calculation

When the ULP finally has its day in proceedings, those dues will be worth it, besides the other benefits over the years!

Like a new kitchen & trips to Hawaii.

Sign me up!

[hithere]

For the 20(made up within the last two weeks) handles that purport to “speak for the Jazz pilots” I cannot thank you enough for this very insightful poll. While you are at it, why don’t you figure out why the FO rep has not put his name on any of the YUL “LEC” comms.
Mudslinging in public is a bad look on everyone, including those who supposedly are “spreading the truth”.
The YUL rep who is behind this really needs to look in the mirror

[cdnavater]

ALPA dues for everyone is based on the same calculation

When the ULP finally has its day in proceedings, those dues will be worth it, besides the other benefits over the years!

Like a new kitchen & trips to Hawaii.

Sign me up!

You really are an imbecile!

[FelixGustof]

When the ULP finally has its day in proceedings, those dues will be worth it, besides the other benefits over the years!

Like a new kitchen & trips to Hawaii.

Sign me up!

You really are an imbecile!

What...you don't like paid Lincoln SUVs or trips to Hawaii?!?!

Like I said...sign me up. I have never been motivated to get to Jazz and join their union. The kickbacks are lit. I can only imagine all the free drinks & steaks

[Nick678]

I’m not a fan of CB in the slightest but how do these expenses compare to other pilot unions? Factoring the size of the pilot group to others.

Hopefully after the ULP is settled he just steps down.