Pay For PPC

mbflyer · Post by **mbflyer** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:57 pm

Okay, at the risk of getting flamed by posting this............

The general opinion is that paying for a PPC to get a job isn't looked upon very highly. But what if you have the $$, and you are not getting it as a request of an employer?

e.g - pilot walks into an operation, looking for a job, and is told 'I'd hire you but..you don't have a PPC on the type we fly. Go get a PPC on our type and we'll hire you'

The above situation isn't looked too highly upon

But what if you are in-between jobs and are not working in the industry, or just like the idea of being rated on as many aircraft as possible, so you go and get a couple of PPC's on different aircraft ( which in theory increases your employability)

Is that any different than the above?

Now I'm in a totally different industry, and if I was looking for a job and was told a company would hire me, but only if I went and paid for specialized training on my own first, I wouldn't be too impressed. However, if I decide on my own time to pay for my own additional training ( even if it isn't relevent to my current job), that's acceptable in my industry.

Just kinda curious what the thoughts out there on this are.

Just as an aside, when I did my career training, my employer and I had a verbal agreement. I would pay 100% of the costs for courses and materials, receive 50% back from my employer immediately, and the other 50% when I received my passing marks for the course, the company also gave me $4K for specialized exam prep courses. The caveat was that if I left my emlployer, I would have to repay any money that they had reimbursed me in the previous year. The agreement worked out quite well.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:25 pm

So should it be okay to pay for beaver as well?

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:54 pm

What do you think you're doing when you go work for an employer who insists you come up with 10-12K to "buy" a job??
Flame away girls.

Dominic220 · Post by **Dominic220** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:58 pm

See most/all other "buying a PPC" posts. if the employer wants you *that* badly, he'll train you on his own aircraft so that you are familiar with the aircraft that you will be flying. Simply put - you buy your PPC, you make it harder for the rest of us. RE: DON'T BUY YOUR JOB

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:39 am

mbflyer wrote: But what if you are in-between jobs and are not working in the industry, or just like the idea of being rated on as many aircraft as possible, so you go and get a couple of PPC's on different aircraft ( which in theory increases your employability)

Is that any different than the above?
.

You can buy as many type ratings as you want, JFK, Travolta, what have you....

But your example, #2 is identical as #1.

Why don't you go and ask EI to pay for it... Apparently thats okay...

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:42 am

Wanna buy a PPC?
Here...I'll sell you mine

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:42 am

Sure collect the whole set.

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:20 pm

Hmm, I always kick this around with myself... I work seasonally, and have a great "day" job. But, I sit around all winter, watching my ifr skills slowly dwindle while I stress about the ride that I have to endure in the spring. So I think to get a job as a KingAir capt or f/o - but, noone is going to hire me because I'll leave after 6 months, to go back to my 'day' job. So...buy the ppc, work for a company, do a good job, and leave when the summer rolls around, perhaps to come back next winter. Now, the company knows what they are getting: a qualified, competent driver for six months, with no ppc costs, while I am buying the flexibility to leave without feeling bad for costing the company money.

But, I'm still buying a ppc... Thoughts?

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:30 pm

Removed, as Doc made a valid point in the next post that made my thinking fuzzy.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:03 pm

NorthShore, have you anyone in mind. My thoughts on the subject are. You don't need a PPC to ride FO, just a PCC, and if you're up front with an employer, as to your desire to make it a regular 6 month gig, many would be happy to take you on. I don't know what your background is, but you'd probably be looking at a right seat job? Can't think of anybody who'd hire you as a skipper, but you never know. I know we'd be interested in talking to you...but our need is for summer...so that's backwards for you.
Personally, I think most pilots walking in with a cheque book in hand is a bad thing for the industry.

old metal · Post by **old metal** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:08 pm

Personally i think we should stone anyone who buys more than 200 hours or has any previous experience that might help them gain employment.

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:07 pm

Doc, thanks for the offer..I actually worked for TI back in the day, swamping for Swan in WTE

At 4200tt, 1k mpic, I'd like to think that I could drive a -90 or -1/200 from the left seat, but in deference to guys who were working for a place year-round, I'd be ok with sitting in the right. I was thinking of a YVR or YYJ based gig, though. Perhaps next year...

V1ummmm · Post by **V1ummmm** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:22 pm

PM B_Mo. He might have some advice for you. 6 pages worth.

FREEFALL · Post by **FREEFALL** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:35 am

I'm not a pilot, so correct me if I'm wrong. But if I wanted to be a rocket scientist, NASA wouldn't hire me on the spot and start trainging me from the ground up. I would have to pay for years of university education, at great cost mind you, before they considered me. Why isn't university frowned upon. Isn't going to university to get an education so I can get a job VERY similar to buying a PPC?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:35 am

FREEFALL wrote:I'm not a pilot, so correct me if I'm wrong. But if I wanted to be a rocket scientist, NASA wouldn't hire me on the spot and start trainging me from the ground up. I would have to pay for years of university education, at great cost mind you, before they considered me. Why isn't university frowned upon. Isn't going to university to get an education so I can get a job VERY similar to buying a PPC?

Not even close. As a CPL Multi Rated pilot (throw in a float or instructing rating as well), you have already educated yourself out of your own pocket. Getting a PPC is a transport requirement and a business expense for the company.
With the industry as good as it is, and jobs aplenty, don't @#$! over the next batch of newbie’s when the industry tanks by paying for a PPC or even signing a bond that you have to come up with the money first.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:07 am

North Shore the problem with yvr and yyj is busy in the summer and slow in the winter. However, yyc different story; you could likely find someone who would be happy to lay you off every summer.

marktheone · Post by **marktheone** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:17 am

I've got a whole book of expired ones for sale. In another six months you can have this one I'm driving with right now.

$50.00 each for the expired ones or $200.00 for the set of 10.

electraguy · Post by **electraguy** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:16 pm

Well I have to say that if this whole thing of "buying" a pilot job is definatly not cool. Many of us have seen the spoiled little rich kid get ahead in the industry because daddy new somebody or he could afford to buy his own PPC. The operators should be paying for that. If they want a training bond then fine, I can see where they are coming from because they are investing in the new pilot and he should at least work it off, or pay it off before going on to the next job. As was said ealier, those guys who buy their PPC's screw over the struggling pilots who can;t afford to pay rent let alone pay for a PPC. The operators need to know its NOT ok to be having people buying jobs. I am sure those operators who hire in that fashion pass up alot of good people, hire some crap and they are probably a company you don;t wanna worl for anyway, cheap to start with, cheap all along.

x-wind · Post by **x-wind** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:50 pm

2 words- "training bond"

dont buy a ppc, finance one.

petey · Post by **petey** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:36 am

For the record, not going to do it, I have a good job right now, where my employer PPC'd me. However this option still is available.

A couple years ago I worked hard thinking that I would use my money to pay for flight training. Instead of doing so I decided I would put a down payment on a house, and take a student loan to pay for flight training. Best decision I've ever made. I'm all finished now, loans payed in full, and my house has risen in value 115% (YYC)! Point being, I am not a rich kid whose daddy is paying for this. Would there be any harm if I were to take out a little bit of money to "further my education"? This is not unreasonable in any other industry. I would not be doing it to "screw over" any other pilots in my industry. Just to get MYSELF ahead. Is it wrong to think about yourself if you have the resources to do so?

Personally I think the issue lies in the poor wages that are being offered to us. If we, as a whole were getting paid more reasonable wages (where we would have more income than "enough to live") there would not be such an issue with dropping a few dollars to become more employable. However, because pilots, as a whole, are so underpaid, there is bitching when a small percentage can get ahead with a few dollars spent, while the majority are struggling and don't have the option to do so.

Just a thought?

petey · Post by **petey** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:42 am

those guys who buy their PPC's screw over the struggling pilots who can;t afford to pay rent let alone pay for a PPC.

Point being: Is it the guy's who buy their PPC's screwing you over, or the employer who doesn't pay you enough to buy one?

We need to start demanding more money, not no training bonds. Think about this; they bond you for TWO YEARS to pay off a $10000 bond. No problem being bonded for $10000, just pay me enough to pay it off in 6 months!

Dark Helmet · Post by **Dark Helmet** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:17 am

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... highlight=

Here you go mbflyer. Hopefully you will find some usefull info there. Enjoy!

Buying a PPC may sound like a good idea, but it aint worth it. If you are going to spend cash, Get a float endorsement, or an Instructor rating, or spend it on a roadtrip. Or at the very least keep you IFR current, PPC won't guarantee you anything and it will be useless, 6 months from now when it expires.

Take care

Koizie1 · Post by **Koizie1** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:13 pm

If times are hard for pilots then you need any advantage you can get to land that 'dream navajo' job, if you think the PPC investment is worth it then go ahead. Personally, I think its a waste of money, but if you're rich, or prepared to bankrupt yourself paying off the loan then why not.

Right now, there are jobs, jobs, jobs. It would be a complete waste of anyones time, because if you can't find a job without a PPC, then you won't find a job with one. Company's are desperate, bonds are getting shorter, or fading slowly away.

Bonds are resonable, buying a PPC is just a waste of time/money!

the professional · Post by **the professional** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:33 pm

MB flyer,

Do what you want - why do you need the approval from your competetors? Personally I wouldn't, and pilots shouldn't, but we all have our own situation.

mbflyer · Post by **mbflyer** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:00 pm

Thanks for the input everyone. Just to clarify things - I am not at the point of even thinking about getting a PPC. Heck, it will be years before I will have enought raining to even consider that question, and by that time things may have changed.

I was just curious as to the negativity about buying PPCs - was it just when an employer tells yous to buy one or if someone went on their own to do one. It is apparent from this forum that the general consensus is that if an employer isn't paying for it, it's a bad idea.

Who knows - maybe by the time I start thinking about trading in the desk for a flying job ( if ever) there might not be PPCs.

Thanks again for everyone's input.

Pay For PPC

Pay For PPC

Re: Pay For PPC

PPC