
Canjet
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- Stick-Shaker
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- invertedattitude
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I'm not seeing your point. WJA isn't flying all of Transat charters now, what makes you think they will in the future?CanadaEH wrote:The announcement was done the same day as WS's Q4 results. It's a 3 year extension for after this charter season.When did this happen?
TSC is going to continue to look for the cheapest option as far as airplanes to provide their service.
In order for WestJet to take-over the other airlines flying for TSC they're going to need to add a few more airplanes dedicated for charter ops, and/or drop some more of their scheduled service.
I don't know whether you understand how the WS/Transat agreement works, but like I said and have said in the past - Westjet has the first right of refusal for ALL flying that Transat wants/needs WS to do. Anything flying that WS can't do - whether it be because of scheduling, manpower, equipment, etc - will be contracted to another airline (i.e. Canjet). I get the feeling that you feel WS isn't in a position to fly more charters?
Last edited by CanadaEH on Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Canada eh, nothing like kicking a guy when he's down... Maybe ease off on the gloating.
How do you know that there's no flying for CanJet to do for Transat?
Yeah, CanJet is managed by Leblanc-like assholes. I think Einstein said insanity or maybe stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
For CanJetters looking for a change, WestJet has YHZ as a flight crew port if that's where you want to live. I don't know specifically for other positions. 104 more pilots to be hired in 2007 and something like 200-250 F/A's. Aircraft commitments through 2010 so obviously more pilots and more F/A's will be needed.
Air Canada might even be hiring...
How do you know that there's no flying for CanJet to do for Transat?
Yeah, CanJet is managed by Leblanc-like assholes. I think Einstein said insanity or maybe stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
For CanJetters looking for a change, WestJet has YHZ as a flight crew port if that's where you want to live. I don't know specifically for other positions. 104 more pilots to be hired in 2007 and something like 200-250 F/A's. Aircraft commitments through 2010 so obviously more pilots and more F/A's will be needed.
Air Canada might even be hiring...
How do you know that there's no flying for CanJet to do for Transat?
I don't and I can't remember saying I did? I'm only saying that WS has the first right of refusal. A while back there were suggestions that Canjet was after the contract WS currently has with Transat and it looks like that won't be happening. I'm sure that there'll be work to be done by someone other than WS but who knows how much?
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- flyin' fish
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Canada eh, you're kind of still doing it. Rhetoric like "Right of first refusal" and "there'll be work to be done by someone other than WS but who knows how much?" is like saying we'll throw you a bone, if we want.
Perhaps you didn't state specifically that there'll be no charter flying for CanJet from Transat however this one-
fishy, nice avatar. I don't know if I could handle touching much less tickling a fer-real 767 RP. Golly.
Perhaps you didn't state specifically that there'll be no charter flying for CanJet from Transat however this one-
suggests that opportunities are limited with no hope so kiss your ass and your house goodbye. Harsh. Also,With the latest WS/Transat contract extension you can pretty much kiss any potential growth from Transat goodbye.
is similarly themed. If Uncle Kenny and his little Julie want to spend $55+ million USD per, power to them. Who knows what's up their sleeve? Where the hell did sunwing get -800s? Maybe we should sell them the -600's before the TVs go in?I wonder where Canjet plans on getting -700's from?
fishy, nice avatar. I don't know if I could handle touching much less tickling a fer-real 767 RP. Golly.
- complexintentions
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Glad to know I'm not the only one. I'm not exactly the sensitive sort (just ask my wife!)
but CanadaEh's comments are exactly the sort of thing that piss people off about WestJet. Success is one thing...dealing with it graciously is another. Maybe it'll take another ten years to figure that out.
Especially irksome is the fact some excellent colleagues fly for WS and the type of bs CanadaEh drops is so opposite of what they're like. Many ex-Canjet pilots have been welcomed with open arms there, what's with the hating? And the passive-aggressive denial thing is just cheap...why not just come out and say you'd love to see CanJet die? I could at least respect that.

Especially irksome is the fact some excellent colleagues fly for WS and the type of bs CanadaEh drops is so opposite of what they're like. Many ex-Canjet pilots have been welcomed with open arms there, what's with the hating? And the passive-aggressive denial thing is just cheap...why not just come out and say you'd love to see CanJet die? I could at least respect that.
I’m still waiting for my white male privilege membership card. Must have gotten lost in the mail.
Since when is right of first refusal rhetoric? The following statement was taken from our Q4 conference call: Sean responded that while the agreement is the same in that it gives Transat exclusive charter flying rights with WestJet, it also allows WestJet to do flying on its own into destinations in the Caribbean and Mexico as well. As for any increase in capacity, that will depend upon the demand from Transat. I'm sorry if you feel that the term right of first refusal is "rhetoric" but that's how our contract was explained to me.Canada eh, you're kind of still doing it. Rhetoric like "Right of first refusal" and "there'll be work to be done by someone other than WS but who knows how much?" is like saying we'll throw you a bone, if we want.
I suggested that growth opportunities are limited with Transat; especially when the speculation was that Canjet was after a significantly larger portion of flying similar to the amount WS and Transat currently have. I never insinuated that people can kiss their homes goodbye. If anyone read it that way, I apologize for that because it wasn't my intention.suggests that opportunities are limited with no hope so kiss your ass and your house goodbye.
So what if I asked a question? I read a few weeks ago that there weren't any available slots for NG's until mid-2009 and there aren't a lot of parked NG's out there, either. NG's aren't readily available on the market at this point in time and are quite hard to come by. How did Sunwing get them? I have no idea...is similarly themed. If Uncle Kenny and his little Julie want to spend $55+ million USD per, power to them. Who knows what's up their sleeve? Where the hell did sunwing get -800s? Maybe we should sell them the -600's before the TVs go in?
I am not "hating" on Canjet. I certainly don't wish a bad ending for Canjet 2.5 and I was shocked when Canjet 2.0 ceased operations. I like to look at the strategic part of our industry and don't really focus on the personal side. It's a pitfall of mine but I've never had to go through what a lot of people in this industry have. [/url]Especially irksome is the fact some excellent colleagues fly for WS and the type of bs CanadaEh drops is so opposite of what they're like. Many ex-Canjet pilots have been welcomed with open arms there, what's with the hating? And the passive-aggressive denial thing is just cheap...why not just come out and say you'd love to see CanJet die? I could at least respect that.
- invertedattitude
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Sorry thought I covered that in my post, but I admit I didn't fully understand that WestJet has them all if they would like:CanadaEH wrote:I don't know whether you understand how the WS/Transat agreement works, but like I said and have said in the past - Westjet has the first right of refusal for ALL flying that Transat wants/needs WS to do. Anything flying that WS can't do - whether it be because of scheduling, manpower, equipment, etc - will be contracted to another airline (i.e. Canjet). I get the feeling that you feel WS isn't in a position to fly more charters?
There's two options for them I covered:
More Planes
Less Scheduled service.
Obviously charters are golden tickets for income, but I don't think sacrificing domestic service for charter flights follows the WestJet "Way" yet it seems to be happening.
- Troubleshot
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All this talk of "right of first refusal" simply means that in the event WestJet has other obilgations for it's aircraft (ie domestic sevice) it may refuse the charter but it WestJet must get offered the charter first...BUT (and this a big "but") only within the capacity of the agreement so this means that if WestJet and Transat have an agreement to do a maximum of I dunno a 100 charters WestJet can refuse any of those charters, This does not mean however Transat cannot make other contracts or arrangements to protect its own interests such as smaller agreements with CanJet, etc... Simply to hope going into a charter season that WestJet can fulfill all of it's lift would be stupid on Transat's part.
But as Canada Eh said it does limit growth opportunites with in this sector but growth strictly depends on Transat and how much business they can generate...WestJet is maxxed out with A/C uitlization right now so if Transat wants to grow and wants WestJet to provide the jets I don't think it's possible without dropping domestic routes...so CanJet (or whoever) could grow quickly to meet this need if a deal was struck...BUT CanJet has to show they could handle a large undertaking like that by getting the right A/C for the job, but I guess the flip side is CanJet are not going to get the aircraft if Transat doesn't offer up the big deal...we'll see.
But as Canada Eh said it does limit growth opportunites with in this sector but growth strictly depends on Transat and how much business they can generate...WestJet is maxxed out with A/C uitlization right now so if Transat wants to grow and wants WestJet to provide the jets I don't think it's possible without dropping domestic routes...so CanJet (or whoever) could grow quickly to meet this need if a deal was struck...BUT CanJet has to show they could handle a large undertaking like that by getting the right A/C for the job, but I guess the flip side is CanJet are not going to get the aircraft if Transat doesn't offer up the big deal...we'll see.
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Canada eh, fair enough. Tickle fight?
Last thing about WestJet I promise, but to answer invertedattitude, WestJet's plan is to even out quarterly revenues by dispatching capacity south in the winter with seasonal charter service and seasonal skeds to places like Fort Myers, West Palm Beach, Palm Springs etc etc. So instead of potentially losing money in the winter (Q4 and Q1), WestJet uses it's resources (planes, people) to the max year-round. Plus, it means I get to do a walk around at +28 in Phoenix before I gotta go back to Winnipeg at -38. Also, with the charters, it gets people into WestJet planes that might not have flown WestJet otherwise. Maybe they will next time...
Last thing about WestJet I promise, but to answer invertedattitude, WestJet's plan is to even out quarterly revenues by dispatching capacity south in the winter with seasonal charter service and seasonal skeds to places like Fort Myers, West Palm Beach, Palm Springs etc etc. So instead of potentially losing money in the winter (Q4 and Q1), WestJet uses it's resources (planes, people) to the max year-round. Plus, it means I get to do a walk around at +28 in Phoenix before I gotta go back to Winnipeg at -38. Also, with the charters, it gets people into WestJet planes that might not have flown WestJet otherwise. Maybe they will next time...
- invertedattitude
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Good points,
I shall say it here on out, I will always be biased for the small bases with employees struggling to make ends meet, sticking by a company for years now waiting for it to get better.
It has its ups and downs, but the smaller bases have to fight the hardest to survive.
That being said, if WestJet was my baby, I'm would do what is needed to make money while the money can be made!
I shall say it here on out, I will always be biased for the small bases with employees struggling to make ends meet, sticking by a company for years now waiting for it to get better.
It has its ups and downs, but the smaller bases have to fight the hardest to survive.
That being said, if WestJet was my baby, I'm would do what is needed to make money while the money can be made!
- Stick-Shaker
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Lets all keep in mind that CJ doesn't have the right aircraft to do the job properly. So I think that before Transat or any other sun operators give CJ a "bone" (as someone put it) they will have to bring the right size bat to the plate.
There will be no 700's, 800's, or A320's at CJ. Right now KR has bigger problems just keeping pilots there. He won't commit to anymore contracts until he solves that issue. The only way he can do that is to pay up, offer real benefits and schedules. And he has proven time and time again, that he is unwilling to do any of that.
Its too bad for the great people still at CJ, but it will fall apart.
There will be no 700's, 800's, or A320's at CJ. Right now KR has bigger problems just keeping pilots there. He won't commit to anymore contracts until he solves that issue. The only way he can do that is to pay up, offer real benefits and schedules. And he has proven time and time again, that he is unwilling to do any of that.
Its too bad for the great people still at CJ, but it will fall apart.
If it ain't fried, it ain't chicken baby!
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- Stick-Shaker
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- Stick-Shaker
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- Stick-Shaker
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