Aviation International Canada Guelph, ON

[joco]

Hi,

I am considering to do my CPL and MIFR at Aviation International Canada in Guelph. Any words of merit or caution?
Thank you
joco

[ftp]

I used to rent out of there. I've also rented from Brampton and trained at Buttonville. That was a few years ago and I never did any training at Guelph.

Pro's:
- Small Airport, good skill development on small runways
- No traffic delays
- No time wasted commuting to practice areas
- Relatively good rental rates
- Not overly busy, good personal attention
- Close to Kitchener for a variety of approaches (cheap for IFR)
- No 'college' program monopolizing the planes.


Con's
- Don't get experience with high traffic situations. (flying circuits at Buttonville and Boundary Bay has made me better with busy traffic situations at international airports)
- Can't fly on low weather IFR days (unless they have a gps approach...they didn't when I lived near there...Find out what their weather minimum is for IFR training)
- Not as many students to network with.
- Only one twin (I believe)

If you are considering doing an instructor rating after, you can still do your MIFR and CPL at Guelph. Despite what people may say, you don't need to do all of your training with a school to instruct there. Really just doing your instructor rating somewhere let's them get to know if they want to hire you, so do your ifr where it's best for you.

[joco]

Thank you ftp for your opinion. In the meantime I have visited Burlington Spectrum Airways as well. Still did not make up my mind.
For the past 5 years I have flown out of CYHM, got used to high and fast traffic situations.
Cheers,
joco

[Guido]

Thank you ftp for your opinion. In the meantime I have visited Burlington Spectrum Airways as well. Still did not make up my mind.
For the past 5 years I have flown out of CYHM, got used to high and fast traffic situations.
Cheers,
joco

Speaking as a 200 hour wonder - you'll definitely appreciate the experience in the "slower" environment (both Guelph and Burlington are 'slow', if I remember correctly - there are different challenges to deal with, and the radio procedure feels very different too. I learned in Sarnia, and did a lot of cross-countries through Toronto's airspace and to airports like YTZ and YHM, so I got the experience of both sides, but I think a lot of major centres miss out on dealing with "uncontrolled" airspace radio and circuit procedures.

[joco]

Thank you Guido. Also check your PM, we have common friends...

[PS-90A]

Great school to get your CPL and Multi IFR done. Friendly atmosphere, once you get to know people, you will enjoy every minute spent there. Very experienced and professional CFI (Scott Peters). They have 2 C-150, 4 C-152, 3 C-172 and nicely equiped twin Seneca. I personally think doing your training in Guelph you can save lot's of $, like someone mentioned, YKF is 5 min away, plus practice areas are basically past Guelph lake northbound. Compare YTZ and YKZ for example...
I have done everything there from scratch, including my instructor rating. I was driving every day from Toronto.
I only have positive feedback about that school and their stuff!

Good luck!

[joco]

Hi,
Thank you for your opinion.
The issue is that I live in Guelph, but work in Hamilton, and Burlington is closer to work... and with the winter coming, it is easier to reach before the night sets in.

I would have preffered to train in Guelph as well, really liked Scott Peters over the phone. I have not closed the book on Guelph.
Cheers,
joco

[Dakota]

I've worked with over 75 instructors in my +20 years in aviation and Scott Peters is BY FAR the best instructor I have had the pleasure to work with. He's forgotten more than most of us will ever learn.
FYI He also did my rating.

[joco]

Thank you Dakota.
joco

[atpilot]

Scott was a class IV instructor when I did my training there. I spent 2 years there doing all my training except my instructor rating. It was a great place learn. Conveniently located to larger airports and a short flight to the practice area. The twin was dual rental only at the time. Pretty good school and some good times.

[Dakota]

RECENT NEWS
AVIATION INTERNATIONAL
TRAINING COST DISCOUNTSFEB 13 2009

Pre-payment discounts
If you pay for the majority of your Licence or Rating in advance, you can receive
a 5% discount on products and services relating to flight instruction, including
books, supplies and ground school.
The discount does not apply to items such as the International Student Fee,
licence processing fees or Transport Canada licence fees.
The following amounts are based on 80% of the average or typical cost of
obtaining each licence or rating. You may finish in less time and will of course
receive a refund. If you take longer, you will have to pay for the additional
hours, but you will continue to receive the discount until the licence or rating
has been achieved.
Each licence or rating is separate. So you cannot pre-pay the Private licence
and expect the 5% discount rate to carry over to the Commercial licence. You
must pre-pay the Commercial licence separately.
You cannot combine the 5% discount with any other discounts, such as the
midwinter special.
Note that the amounts below are not the cost of obtaining the licences or ratings
listed. They are just the amount you need to pre-pay in order to receive the 5%
discount.
Pre-payments required for 5% discount
Private Pilot Licence $10,000
Commercial Pilot Licence $13,500
Multi Engine Rating $ 5,000
Group 1 Instrument Rating $ 6,000
Instructor Rating $ 7,000

[Highflyinpilot]

Heard nothing but great things there, however I've never dealt with them so that is all second hand info.

[xlent]

A flight school offering discounts if you pay up front? i hate to say it but it sounds to me like the doors may be closing soon. I wouldn't give them a cent. I seem to remember the same thing happening in Barrie just before a bunch of people we're screwed out of $$$$

[Highflyinpilot]

Although hearing nothing but great things about them, I agree with xelent, I wouldn't pay up front, way too risky in my opinion.

[precision_approach]

I am a part-owner of Aviation International.

Let me assure you that we are NOT going out of business anytime soon. In fact we are currently on the hunt for more instructors because we are getting very busy.

Aviation International is now in the middle of a half-million dollar upgrade program that will see new/improved classroom facilities, a new sim training building, computer upgrades, etc etc.

The issue of pre-payment in return for a discount - sometimes called a "block-time" discount - is as old as flight training itself. The discount we are offering now is a direct result of requests from several of our students - and in particular from a group of students from Europe who plan to come to Guelph and do time-building.

We made the minimum amount to receive the discount deliberately quite high and the discount itself rather modest, because we specifically did NOT want people to give us money in advance who could not afford to do so. Quite frankly, I'm not a big believer in these discounts, but we are just responding to requests from our customers.

We are currently re-evaluating our rental rates to see if we can afford to reduce them a bit in response to recent lower fuel costs. That would amount to a discount for everyone, which I'm much happier with.

In short, we are NOT asking students to put money up front in return for a discount. We are extremely content with the pay-as-you-go customers. However, in response to specific requests, we do offer the block-time discount for people who know they will complete training with us and would like to save a little bit of money.

George Patton
precision_approach@hotmail.com

[Highflyinpilot]

Good on you to come on here and inform us of the reasons for this.

like I said, Ive heard great things about you's, Coming from very very reliable sources(confederation college senior instructors and CFI)

[jump154]

I can confirm the above -- I am currently a pay as I go PPL student at AI, and in fact the first I heard of this pre-pay discount offer was in this thread, so they are certainly NOT pushing students to pay in advance!
Plenty of activity with the recently improved weather - anyone want a lowly student's opinion PM me.

[Hedley]

NEVER, EVER PRE-PAY ANY FLIGHT SCHOOL

Re-read the above.

Pay as you go, at the end of every flight.

Economic downturn, people. Read the news. The weak will be culled.
Don't let them take your money with them.

[MichaelP]

I agree with Hedley...
But we also do "Block Time" rates and I think these are fair without costing all one's life's earnings. They result in a lower rate and on our side produce confidence in the aeroplane's ability to pay for itself.
We're offering a good block time rate in the DA40, a hard sell in the stoneage west...

Block time is based on trust, and if it feels wrong then don't buy it!

Pre paying for any course involving many thousands is not a good idea.

We had Indian students discontented with their training in the Calgary area wanting to come here but with "$26,000" on account, one of them said, in the flying school there.

Some schools ask for huge deposits from individual foreign students, particularly in Alberta and Manitoba about which we have had many reports.
I worry that Canada could get the same reputation as the USA for taking money and then closing the doors.

I won't take someone's money in advance for a licence course.
I will take the block rates for somewhat less.
We do refund money used for block rates from time to time in a fair manner.
Money trouble is the quickest way to falling out, and I'd rather people stay happy... They learn better that way and we can keep our reputation!

[Hedley]

Just got emailed this:

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/busine ... 87955.html

Horry County government has temporarily moved in to operate the Conway-Horry County Airport after the North American Institute of Aviation, which had a lease with the county to run the airport and provided classes there, filed for bankruptcy on Monday.

About 50 students were enrolled at the institute, Creel said, and about 75 percent of them were foreign.

Creel said a bond taken out by the school will repay or has repaid the domestic students, but how the foreign students will get their money back remains to be seen.

I don't know how to make this any clearer, esp in these days
of economic freefall, but:

NEVER, EVER PRE-PAY ANY FLIGHT SCHOOL

[MichaelP]

One of our friends here has a very good suggestion in the way of the 'block time' idea.
An 11 for 10 type deal so rather than do a block rate, if a renter does more than a certain number of hours within a specified time he/she gets some time for free instead.
I think that's the fairest idea of the lot a win - win situation.

We'll apply it to the DA40 forthwith.

[PAJ]

An 11 for 10 type deal so rather than do a block rate, if a renter does more than a certain number of hours within a specified time he/she gets some time for free instead.

I like this idea but why make it conditional within a specified time? I think the intent here is to reward the frequent user/renter without the risk of a bunch of money "on account". Or at least make the specified time very reasonable.

Another idea is to offer a discount (say 5% or 10%) for flights over xx in time. You'll have to do the math on the percentage and flight time so that it is still profitable but affords the renter with an instant reward.

[Cat Driver]

Michael, you can use my name.

When I owned a FTU that was how I did it.

No money on account - no credit - xx free flying for every xx hours of airplane use.

[MichaelP]

The objective of the aircraft operator is to increase the utilisation of the aircraft and by doing so the cost of operation is reduced. The overheads are divided by more hours.

The objective of the renter is to save money.

If ten hours is flown by a renter over 12 months then the operator can not be as certain that the aircraft will meet its break even point, it's not worthwhile giving the renter a break.
The idea is to encourage the renters to fly more and by doing so the costs can come down.

I am sad that the DA40-180 has not caught on here... It's different in Europe where our aeroplane will cost £34 an hour more and with the diesel.
We have a few enquiries for block hours from England where this standard of aircraft is quite normal.
What I'd like to see is some enthusiasm for newer technology here.

I don't buy some of the arguments of cost... Pilots go out and spend big money on GPS units and fail to count that cost into the cost of their flying... With the G1000 you have the latest technology right there!

The proposal is to give pilots a certain amount of free flying for ten hours flown in two months, and a certain amount more if it is flown in one month.
It's a win for us as the overheads for that period are better absorbed and for the frequent flyer its better too.
An additional point is the renter is encouraged to stay current.

[SkyWolfe]

Michael: Change is scary... Apparently... I see the poor Diamond sitting on the ground in front of me right now.

I think people need to expand their horizons and try out different types of aircraft... Personally, I found flying different types of aircraft made me a stronger pilot... Not to mention, it's kinda fun.

Wolfie