FIRST ONE TO BUFFALO GETS A CHECKOUT

[TheBearCavalry]

1.

[looproll]

riiiiiiight

[RADIALRUNNER]

I always wondered when this was gonna happen. I was told at one point this summer that there was 4 or 5 young bucks on the ramp. Either there's alot of movement at the greasy green team lately(which I doubt), or all 4 or 5 of 'em realized that anything green is hazordous to your health.

[TheBearCavalry]

m

[scopiton]

what about the french guy that was there, has he been checked out ?

[TheBearCavalry]

yup he was the one checked out

[skywardbound]

once im gone on the 20th there is officially no rampies at buffalo

Where are you going?

[trey kule]

Here is a thought. If no pilot takes the job, the next pilot hired will be direct entry!

If you believe that pilots should not be required to be rampies first, here is the chance people.

[Doc]

Here is a thought. If no pilot takes the job, the next pilot hired will be direct entry!

If you believe that pilots should not be required to be rampies first, here is the chance people.

What a capital idea! I really like the "I'm out of here....come on up....." Kind of like..."I puked, but there's lots of steak left on the barbee...." No thanks.

[Cannonballer]

What a capital idea! I really like the "I'm out of here....come on up....." Kind of like..."I puked, but there's lots of steak left on the barbee...." No thanks.

That is easy to say when you have the time not worry about your next job or you have the experience to pick where you work. But when you are starving sometimes eating the stuff that you know will make you puke is better than going hungry. Till the time when you get to pick which barbee you eat off of

There are alot of shitty jobs like that out there it seems. Kudos to the few who have the guts to move on. To the others who see these places as opportunity, good luck. It is all about being at the right place at the right time. To me those jobs are like beautiful women... no matter how hot they seem, or are, there is somebody out there somewhere tired of dealing with their shit!!!!

Good luck Bear ... there are better ones out there...

[KAFUFO]

What a capital idea! I really like the "I'm out of here....come on up....." Kind of like..."I puked, but there's lots of steak left on the barbee...." No thanks.

Here is a thought. If no pilot takes the job, the next pilot hired will be direct entry!

If you believe that pilots should not be required to be rampies first, here is the chance people.

What a capital idea! I really like the "I'm out of here....come on up....." Kind of like..."I puked, but there's lots of steak left on the barbee...." No thanks.

alright doc what are you going to offer the low timers?

you own any airplanes that you'd like to hire a 200hr guy directly off the street for???????

If you have a better option for the low timers I'd love to here it

does wollostens hire low time guys to work the ramp?

if so have you quit in protest?

just remember your the one with influance, and till you use that to the point of quitting, maybe just maybe you should stop commenting on other companies hiring practices?

[trey kule]

You are very good at asking questions, so let me ask you one....

you own any airplanes that you'd like to hire a 200hr guy directly off the street for???????

How does working the ramp change your time? Do you log hours on the ramp tug as PIC? FO time for passing the bags up to be loaded?

If you have 200hrs and sit on the ramp for a year I am not sure how you expect that your skills have not decreased?


And again...if no one would buy into this theory...200 hr pilots would get hired direct...or, and let me ask again, does the time on the ramp make you a better pilot than one who has not done time on the ramp?

Keep believing. It is the kind of attitude that allows companies to exploit new pilots, sell PPC's, and pay nothing to allow them to get experience....

[gianthammer]

I worked the ramp for 18 months for the Green Guys back in the pre/post 9/11 Era and I have to say for me.... It was the most rewarding experience of my life up to that point. I have had greater experiences since then Largly due to my hard work on the ramp for Buffalo. Its my opinion that there is no greater way to really learn the buisness and the operator that a newbe has then to work the ramp and learn the expectations of the operator and learn the working conditions that you will be thrust into when you are checked out, and by the time the said individual is "checked out" then he/she has earned his/her spot and does not have to pay for training or sign a bond, then both the operator and the employee know what they are getting into. Now with that said working for Buffalo is not everyones cup O tea. But I will say that working for Buffalo you will learning more about yourself then anything else. .

[Cat Driver]

When I did my first flight for pay as a commercial pilot I had 277 hours in my log book.

My first flight as a working commercial pilot was in a Piper J3 spraying a tobacco field in southern Ontario.

I had 252 hours when I was hired and the company gave me a 25 hour aerial application course.

Since then I have never paid for any ratings or training.

Maybe I am just lucky?

[fingersmac]

It's a simple as supply and demand.

When I started on the ramp 20 months ago there was 8 of us working. Now there's only 4 guys on the ramp, of which 2 are flying part time and a third is about to move up to a full time flying position. The demand here has pretty much stayed constant but the supply has dwindled. Unfortunately as the industry slows down, supply will once again increase. Unless you're willing to instruct, there isn't enough entry level jobs available to everyone with a newly minted CPL. Ramping is not exactly the most glamourous work but it has been the foot-in-the-door for tons of pilots in this industry.

And sure your flying skills may have diminished over the course of your stint on the ramp but I have yet to hear of any stories about guys that haven't been able to pick up where they left off. Plus our ramp/office staff are allowed to tag along on freight trips when able.

[scopiton]

When I did my first flight for pay as a commercial pilot I had 277 hours in my log book.

My first flight as a working commercial pilot was in a Piper J3 spraying a tobacco field in southern Ontario.

I had 252 hours when I was hired and the company gave me a 25 hour aerial application course.

Since then I have never paid for any ratings or training.

Maybe I am just lucky?

yeap Cat and you were 18 when a gallon of fuel was around 70 cents
everything changes and comparing eras is like looking through a distorting mirror

[Cat Driver]

The reality is the price of any commodity was about the same as today when you take into account what people get paid.

When I learned to fly there were very few jobs and many pilots looking for them.

So I really do not see any difference between then and now.

I will admit there were no companies who asked you to pay for your training.

That came from to many pilots taking advantage of their employers.

[Cat Driver]

yeap Cat and you were 18 when a gallon of fuel was around 70 cents

Actually it was more like 35 cents a gallon.

The Cessna 140 and the Fleet Canuck cost ten dollars an hour dual and eight dollars an hour solo.

I drove a delivery truck for 35 dollars a week.

So what was so different then and now?

Ohhh wait it was different we got our PPL's in thirty hours and didn't have nose wheel airplanes for training..

[KAFUFO]

My thought was if you don't like it change it, the most addimit about this is doc so let him be the first after all we'll all follow right

[Doc]

My thought was if you don't like it change it, the most addimit about this is doc so let him be the first after all we'll all follow right

I know this is tough to understand from the confines of your grade 6 class KAFUFO, but if pilots would stop working ramps, companies would have to put them in airplanes. Pretty simple. You want to preform slave labor for some antique operation, you go right ahead. Again, you are perpetuating a problem. If 250 hour guys worked at MacDonalds till they got a call for a flying job, companies like Buffalo would have to hire real ramp persons, pay them properly and treat them like human beings. They wouldn't be able to force them to work 60 -70 hour weeks to "prove" themselves to some old fart like Joe. Sorry Joe, but you are an old fart.

And, NO the company I work for dose NOT hire ramp persons. The last time we hired a pilot, he was fairly low time. And, nobody ever leaves. It's kind of like the Hotel California. You can check in. But, you can never leave. Methinks we are doing it right?

[Lurch]

I'm confused as to why "pilots" are arguing with Doc over this.

Can any "Pilot" on this forum truly say that they couldn't wait to work the ramp and "prove" their worth, while busting their butt getting their license?

At no point during the years I worked to pay for my licenses, could I imagine having to work for minimum wage, 7 days a week, and being treated like shit. Just so I could have the privilege of working for an employer that would treat me like a slave.

When did the industry decide that they wouldn't properly interview and research their potential employee's, but instead make slave labour positions so they can prove they deserve a job and have a good work ethic?

I would also like one of these supporters show me one other industry that treats their potential employee’s this way, and explain how this makes you a better employee/pilot.

Lurch

[Cat Driver]

I would also like one of these supporters show me one other industry that treats their potential employee’s this way, and explain how this makes you a better employee/pilot

First you need to find an industry where you can qualify for with as low an IQ as you can have and still be a pilot.

[gianthammer]

If Im not mistaken Doctors work for years with little to no wage, and once they finally do get a paid it is near slavery wages with the kind of hours they put in.

Im not defending these hiring practices and treating people like trash Im just saying there is alot to learn in the industry that you can't learn in Flying school or a College program, and in the right enviroment a "ramp job" is a great way to do this.

[Lurch]

If Im not mistaken Doctors work for years with little to no wage, and once they finally do get a paid it is near slavery wages with the kind of hours they put in.

Im not defending these hiring practices and treating people like trash Im just saying there is alot to learn in the industry that you can't learn in Flying school or a College program, and in the right enviroment a "ramp job" is a great way to do this.

Yes but doctors work as "doctors" you don't see them mopping floors and washing bed pans.

What can you learn on the ramp that you can't learn flying the airplane?

[gianthammer]

I would also like one of these supporters show me one other industry that treats their potential employee’s this way, and explain how this makes you a better employee/pilot.

If Im not mistaken Doctors work for years with little to no wage, and once they finally do get a paid it is near slavery wages with the kind of hours they put in.

Yes but doctors work as "doctors" you don't see them mopping floors and washing bed pans.

No they work as Interns and yes they do wash Bed pans Once and a while.



As stated in a previous post learning an operators expectation, learning the intricacies of loading and unloading an airplane from experienced guys, learning the roots and tricks to get into some places getting to know customers all the while reviewing ops manuals and sops sets and Wanabee knucklehead up for smooth transition into whatever seat he may move into. If a person working on the ramp thinks of themselves as Just a "rampie" and not another member of the team then mabe they are not the right person for the Job.