Strike?????

[chatman]

5,000 Air Canada workers vote down deal
5,000 Air Canada workers vote down deal
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/578599
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Chris Sorensen
Business Reporter

About 5,000 Air Canada ticket agents and call centre workers have voted against an early tentative collective agreement with the airline, putting a damper on hopes for a smooth round of bargaining this spring when all of Air Canada's employees will have the right to strike for the first time in five years.

Leslie ****, the president of the Canadian Auto Workers union Local 2002, said in a letter this week that 78 per cent of the membership voted down a tentative agreement that the CAW had reached with Air Canada earlier this month.

"Frustration over years of concessions, obscene corporate compensation and bleak predictions for the future has left people stressed and angry," **** said.

"Much outrage was directed at the financial gymnastics of Air Canada that have rewarded Robert Milton (CEO of parent ACE Aviation Holdings Inc.), executives and investors but wholly denied hard-working employees their share of the progress."

The airline's various unions had taken issue with ACE Aviation's decision to distribute about $2 billion worth of cash to shareholders instead of reinvesting all of it in the airline. The money was gleaned from the spinoff of former Air Canada business units such as loyalty program Aeroplan and regional carrier Jazz.

Milton, on the other hand, has argued the moves were necessary to deliver a reasonable return to investors. That includes New York private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LLP, which played a critical role in allowing Air Canada to exit bankruptcy protection.

He also noted in a recent interview with the Star that some of the proceeds from the spin-offs were used to pay for new aircraft, and that Air Canada exited bankruptcy protection in 2004 with $2.5 billion in cash - "probably $1 billion more than Air Canada has ever had in its history."

An Air Canada spokesperson could not be immediately reached for comment.

The CAW was the first employee group at Air Canada to reach a tentative agreement with the airline before current collective agreements expire this spring. All of Air Canada's employees had agreed to forego the right to strike until this year as part of an agreement reached while the airline was still under bankruptcy protection.

While the CAW had trumpeted the tentative agreement, which included securing employees' defined benefit pension plans and modest wage improvements, many observers have warned that Air Canada's 26,600 employees are bitter after agreeing to deep concessions during the airline's restructuring.

Some have suggested there's a feeling among Air Canada workers that they deserve to be rewarded for their sacrifices now that the airline is on a more solid footing. Instead, they have been met with layoffs and other cost cutting measures as Air Canada sought to offset the impact of soaring fuel prices earlier this year and, more recently, a steep economic downturn.

Just last week, Air Canada said it was cutting 345 flight attendants because of economic pressures. That's on top of the roughly 2,000 employees that Air Canada said it was laying off last June, although the airline claims that roughly half of those cuts were achieved through voluntary measures such as unpaid leaves, or attrition.

[Embraer190]

Milton gutted the company and now he's running for the hills with his pockets full... and then some. A perfect example of someone who screws lots of people for personal gain. His comments about pilots being overpaid, oversexed and overglorified definitely didn't help boost company morale. And this is all considered legal!!!

A strike is looming.

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

A strike is looming.

E190, if I may ask, do you work for AC?

[ettw]

Milton gutted the company and now he's running for the hills with his pockets full... and then some. A perfect example of someone who screws lots of people for personal gain. His comments about pilots being overpaid, oversexed and overglorified definitely didn't help boost company morale. And this is all considered legal!!!

A strike is looming.

My money says this guy is not an employee....maybe daddy is?

Cheers,

ETTW

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

Sorry E190, didn't mean to start an inquisition. I was just trying to figure out where you were coming from.

[FL020]

You think this is bad???

Wait till this summer when the pilot group starts at er'!!!

[balfour]

[teacher]

Not to rehash another thread but wanted to once again reiterate my hope that ALL pilots working under the Air Canada brand work together to come to a better contract than we could have alone.

[Four1oh]

I guarantee you the company will attempt the ole 'divide and conquer' strategy against you guys... don't be sucked in!

[yycflyguy]

I guarantee you the company will attempt the ole 'divide and conquer' strategy against you guys... don't be sucked in!

Will try? They have been doing that for years.

[Embraer190]

Milton gutted the company and now he's running for the hills with his pockets full... and then some. A perfect example of someone who screws lots of people for personal gain. His comments about pilots being overpaid, oversexed and overglorified definitely didn't help boost company morale. And this is all considered legal!!!

A strike is looming.

My money says this guy is not an employee....maybe daddy is?

Cheers,

ETTW

That's correct, I don't work for AC, nor do I really want to under these circumstances.
Pops is a pilot at AC, if you must know.

[Four1oh]

I guarantee you the company will attempt the ole 'divide and conquer' strategy against you guys... don't be sucked in!

Will try? They have been doing that for years.

No doubt, should I change it to 'continue to successfully implement...' then?

[tonysoprano]

There's no need to divide and conquer. The latest tactic by management is to show us how airlines all over the world are losing money and laying off. According to latest AC management tactics we are 3-400 pilots fat. That is the starting point. Nothing to divide. Nothing to conquer. Just good old fashioned threats and brinkmanship. Been there seen it before, a few times. What about that $2 billion ACE just gave away?? We will give in. Other unions won't. AC will be on stike this year. I doubt it will come from the good ol' pilots though. And if we have the balls, it will be CCAA all over again. Brinkmanship again, in management's favour.

[bowling]

h

[yycflyguy]

There's no need to divide and conquer. The latest tactic by management is to show us how airlines all over the world are losing money and laying off. According to latest AC management tactics we are 3-400 pilots fat. That is the starting point. Nothing to divide. Nothing to conquer. Just good old fashioned threats and brinkmanship. Been there seen it before, a few times. What about that $2 billion ACE just gave away?? We will give in. Other unions won't. AC will be on stike this year. I doubt it will come from the good ol' pilots though. And if we have the balls, it will be CCAA all over again. Brinkmanship again, in management's favour.

At this point, I am not so sure that CCAA would be awarded to AC after securing two large loans (Duetche Bank and GE), oil nowhere near the $141 barrel of last year. The ERIP and SLOA numbers have not been finalized either so, although they will no doubt continue to talk of furloughs and will show a downbid as early as March (rumour), I am not so sure that is our destiny Luke.

As far as no need to divide and conquer. It has been done and they continue to look for more ways. Red/Blue/Green/Jazz/OTS/Senior/Junior/YUL/YYZ/YVR/YWG/Position Group/Formula Pay/Embraer... I could go on.

The $2 billion is gone (actually $2.83 billion). Even the CRA allowed for $100 million tax loophole for these crooks. ACPA fought it before it happened and continues to fight it. It is the right thing to do but we are throwing good money after bad. That money will never come back.

[tonysoprano]

Red/Blue/Green/Jazz/OTS/Senior/Junior/YUL/YYZ/YVR/YWG/Position Group/Formula Pay/Embraer... I could go on.

Only my opinion but I maintain the devide and conquer tactic is not as strong as it once was. Here's why:
Red/Blue: That's not something that management has constructed. We can either get along or not. Not the company's fault. It was an arbitrator that caused the problems.
Green/Jazz/OTS/Senior/Junior: Don't see your point. The majority of Jazz pilots have guaranteed interview when we hire. If hired they get benefits over the OTS people but that is not a huge divisive factor. Senior/Junior thing all you have to do is look at what the seniors have done for the young in the past and what we are doing today with reduced blocks and early retirement to save jobs. Where is the divisive factor??
Emb and formula pay ect... The juniors wouldn't be here without any of that. Period.
YVR/YYZ/YUL/YWG: Have a look at the parings these days. The company has been sharing the flying amongst all bases to keep those bases open. Kudos to them.
I think what the company is really tying to do is brinkmanship. They have been most succesful at this game than any other tactic. That's what our last CCAA was all about. Devide and conquer has become nothing more than a catchy phrase.

P.S. Make no mistake as a last resort CCAA will be granted. And we get shafted once again. But hey, a job is a job, I guess. That will be up to all of us to decide.

[jjj]

Is securing your pensions perhaps item number 1?

After all, isn't that one of the great reasons for being an AC pilot?

Will perhaps you guys be forced to give up more in order to secure your future.

Also, are pilot's pensions controlled differently than pensions for others in AC? Do non pilot types like my Dad draw from the same pool?

[tonysoprano]

Pilots have a separate pension pool. I suspect it will be brought up as negotiating tool by the company. They will tell us it's getting to be too expensive (brinkmanship). The general feeling so far is that the pension will not be changed. By law (and this is how we differ from the Americans) the company has to hold up it's end of the bargain, be it sooner or later. Oh, BTW jjj, the pension is a very small reason most pilots come to AC. Not what a young twenty year old is thinking about when he/she gets hired.

[tonysoprano]

300- 400 pilots...

just talked to a AC check pilot and he said 150...

That may be more realistic but the propaganda mahine has doubled that number in the crew room rumor mill. I remember just before CCAA Milton put the layoff number at about 800. The real number was closer to 200.

[jjj]

Yes Tony, I do know that the pension is not the be all and end all of a job at AC.

The reasons are obvious and range from the quest to fly some bigger tin, being part of a pro flight department and so on.....

[tonysoprano]

The reasons are obvious and range from the quest to fly some bigger tin, being part of a pro flight department and so on.....

...heehhehe, is that what yycflyguy told ya?

[Al707]

"Emb and formula pay ect... The juniors wouldn't be here without any of that. Period."

Come on Tony! You really believe that?

We'd be here that's for sure and you'd be doing what you are doing for a lot less!

Unless your going to fly all the hours the new hires represent, for new hire pay, give up all your vacation (because of shortage of manpower) and your ability to bid top reserve and pass it all down to those of us that..... aren't here!

[tonysoprano]

"Emb and formula pay ect... The juniors wouldn't be here without any of that. Period."

Come on Tony! You really believe that?

We'd be here that's for sure and you'd be doing what you are doing for a lot less!

Unless your going to fly all the hours the new hires represent, for new hire pay, give up all your vacation (because of shortage of manpower) and your ability to bid top reserve and pass it all down to those of us that..... aren't here!

How much hiring do you think AC would have done if we didn't have the Emb and the formula pay? Probably not much. I'm curious to know how I'd be flying the '67 for a lot less.Formula pay is a necessary evil. We need to try to increase it but it will always be around. In my opinion this is not divide and conquer. That's knowing what you're going to get prior to getting hired and accepting it.

[c170b53]

Good luck to all and hope that we can survive. We were stupid during the last CCAA and now we are all paying for it. If you think they have a master plan, that's great but from what I see its a new plan each week.

[Al707]

S**T. You talk like you been around and you know all.

The corp needed X pilots to fly X airplanes due to existing work rules. PERIOD!

At the end of the day they needed pilots to fly all the aircraft in there plans. PERIOD!

The existing workforce (you) would need to work harder (more hours) OR for less $$ (to facilitate increased hiring while maintaining the existing payroll) OR get the new guys to do more for less ( ie. the position group) or a combination of both.

This is of course provided our employer decided a fixed (or reducing) payroll cost was the only viable option, which is what I'm betting what was sold to you at the time.

For you to think we'd be 60 aircraft lighter and your wage package wouldn't have been effected had we not created a B-scale is just plain naive.