How bad did the topic get that it just disappeared.....

[sky's the limit]

Is it a slow news day? I mean really, can't we pool our collective intellects and come up with a topic of substance, any topic?

That said, I've got nuth'in.... so carry on.

stl

[Strega]

As soon as we starting flying classrooms around at 41,000ft, I'll start doing more training in them.

For the record, you have spelling mistakes...... not to mention I dont really understand what you mean >> more of an issue..

[ettw]

Ok....

I think what CIL was getting at was that we learn the most in the machine, not in a classroom.

ETTW

[LousyFisherman]

Ok....

I think what CIL was getting at was that we learn the most in the machine, not in a classroom.

ETTW

And plumbers learn more on the job than they do in a classroom.
Plumbers have approximately 1000 hours classroom time and over
3000 hours practical hands on training directly supervised by a journeyman
before they get their ticket.

Journeyman plumber is equivalent to a CPL with Instructor rating.

LF

[Changes in Latitudes]

As soon as we starting flying classrooms around at 41,000ft, I'll start doing more training in them.

For the record, you have spelling mistakes...... not to mention I dont really understand what you mean >> more of an issue..

Apologies. Fixed, for your comprehensive enjoyment.

[Dust Devil]

Ok....

I think what CIL was getting at was that we learn the most in the machine, not in a classroom.

ETTW

And plumbers learn more on the job than they do in a classroom.
Plumbers have approximately 1000 hours classroom time and over
3000 hours practical hands on training directly supervised by a journeyman
before they get their ticket.

Journeyman plumber is equivalent to a CPL with Instructor rating.

LF

I wouldn't say a CPL with an instructor rating is equivalent. Not a lot of real world experience instructing. Whereas the plumber has seen much more real world issues over the span of their 3000 hours.

I actually agree that the trades receive much better training in order to prepare them for their trade. Someone in another thread suggested something along the lines of a graduated pilots license. I actually really like the idea. To a degree it is already done thru insurance requirements. I would like to see it taken further however.

[North Shore]

Journeyman plumber is equivalent to a CPL with Instructor rating.

Hmm - not sure about that. My personal opinion is that it would be equivalent to something along the lines of a 'typical' Kingair Captain. Say 2500 hours, 500 In command on type etc.. Able to go pretty much anywhere with their machine and do a safe, competent job.

IMHO, a bareass CPL is pretty much a licence to learn - you go out and get a job, and the boss slowly mentors you along, easy trips at first, and then the harder ones, and so on...

[Strega]

IMHO, a bareass CPL is pretty much a licence to learn - you go out and get a job, and the boss slowly mentors you along, easy trips at first, and then the harder ones, and so on...

I couldnt agree more,

The problem is when there is a lack of mentorship,, ie the new CPL becomes an instructor who is mentored by the "High Time" instructor that has NO REAL WORLD TIME. Or the new CPL gets a job a "joes charters" only to be overseen by a bunch of morons.

[dashx]

1000 hours classrom time at (rough guess 6 hours actual time in class) 5 days per week gives you roughly 167 days. Assuming a 5 day school week that translates into 34 weeks. And that is equal to 8 months of schooling.

http://www.durhamcollege.ca/EN/main/pro ... aining.php

Durham College (in Whitby) Ontario

https://myplace.durhamcollege.ca/durham ... gramID=139#

Wow that´s some tuition..........3 semesters and you´re out looking a job (But you would most probably already have one lined up)

God dam govt funded schools EH!

Now how does that compare to a Gov´t funded aviation program?

Oh its ok I dont need to learn to land that plane just take off EH?

[Strega]

1000 hours classrom time at (rough guess 6 hours actual time in class) 5 days per week gives you roughly 167 days. Assuming a 5 day school week that translates into 34 weeks. And that is equal to 8 months of schooling.

http://www.durhamcollege.ca/EN/main/pro ... aining.php

Durham College (in Whitby) Ontario

https://myplace.durhamcollege.ca/durham ... gramID=139#

Wow that´s some tuition..........3 semesters and you´re out looking a job (But you would most probably already have one lined up)

God dam govt funded schools EH!

Now how does that compare to a Gov´t funded aviation program?

Oh its ok I dont need to learn to land that plane just take off EH?

I have no idea what you are trying to get at.....

[dashx]

I have no idea what you are trying to get at.....

You made a statement. Did not back it up with any relevant information. So I did a little research and came up with what you just put into a quote.

Feel free to look up aviation programs (seneca college in ontario for one) and let me know how much classroom time they get (yes i know its a govt funded program). Like I said welcome to Canada.

And then compare them to the plumbers apprenticeship program at Durham.

Or better yet: Why don't you do a little research in your own country's programs and let me know how they compare.

Hey I might even be wrong.

Prove me wrong. Mr. agerts

-ex

[Strega]

Do you have to go to seneca to obtain a CPL?

[Dust Devil]

Do you have to go to seneca to obtain a CPL?

Oh snap

[dashx]

http://www.senecac.on.ca/fulltime/FPR.html

http://www.senecac.on.ca/fulltime/FPR.html#layer11

What do you end up with? I am sure one of the "graduates" would be more than happy to tell you what they graduate with (hmm.....commercial pilots licence comes to mind)

I only mention Seneca because its an "elite" program that accepts only 30 students after the first year (if this has changed at all let me know.......)

Now then .....

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... n/menu.htm

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/2/F ... x.aspx?l=E


Snap? Snapple!

[Strega]

So once again your're comparing the "elite" school that only, at best, throw out 30 CPLs each year to a run of the mill plumbing school?

as you seem to like links here is one showing a flight school that does the norm:

http://www.skywings.com/commercial_pilot.htm

Note the groundschool time.....

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, plumbers recieve more education than pilots do...not to mention their apprentiships are set up properly.

[dashx]

run of the mill plumbing school

So show me a run of the mill plumbing school. Privately run. And the gov't criteria for plumbers. In the US and/or Canada. Since i already know the criteria for a CPL through a non-gov't operated company. You have given me the link for that.

I provided you with links for accredited school programs. The links also show other college programs such as Canadore (do i need to list them all for you?)

Plumbing is an apprenticeship program and flying is not. No arguments there. Is there a problem with this? Possibly. But that is why there are college programs. To provide the students with the proper classroom time.

You certainly win your argument in this way. Hey wow manipulating statistics to prove a point. Congratulations.

http://www.ontariocolleges.ca/portal/pa ... m=plumbing

Plumbing program. Durham College.

https://myplace.durhamcollege.ca/durham ... gramID=139

Aviation Program. Sault College.

http://www.saultc.on.ca/Programs/Progra ... groupc=AVI

You've got your opinion and i've got mine.

[Strega]

dash

how many more pilots are being churned out by the private flight schools as opposed to the "colleges"

FYI there is another world outside of Ontario...

[Strega]

Dash here is another one for you posted right in the ads on this site..

Morgan Air Flight School
Get your Commercial Pilot License in 6 months at Calgary Intl Airport
www.morganair.ca

[dashx]

http://www.gatts.org/home.shtm

we go beyond the antiquated General Aviation methods that are the norm in accelerated flight training.

http://www.deltaconnectionacademy.com/p ... ional.aspx

Two US schools.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/databases/das/descOfAppr.html

California Apprenticeship programs:

Apprentices attend classes of related technical instruction, usually in the public schools. This instruction, supplementing the training on the job, gives apprentices a comprehensive understanding of the theoretical aspects of their work. Related instruction is one of the fundamental features of apprenticeship and has been developed and accepted as standard practice in every trade. In most cases this means attending classes at night 4 hours each week, for at least 108 hours a year. The instruction includes such subjects as safety laws and regulations, mathematics, drafting, blueprint reading and other sciences connected with the trade

http://www.dir.ca.gov/databases/das/res ... OccId=2262

Did you find any private plumbing schools? Because Plumbing is an apprenticeship programs I doubt it.

Oh wait: http://www.pennfoster.edu/plumber/ProgramOutline.html become a plumber through independent study
I guess your classroom time is your .... home time?

Both industries are regulated differently. Plumbing is a trade. A job. Flying not necessarily so. So you will find more schools that offer specialized training for flying. Some with less classroom time than others.

That is why I only compared accredited (recognized/accepted) programs.

Your statement could be used to compare other professions (doctors get more classrom time than dentists truck drivers get more than dental hygenists etc etc). And it would still be incorrect.

But that is just my opinion.

[AlbertaBoy]

I know I'm VERY new here to be commenting on this, but this is way to funny to pass up.

At the end of the day, more education or not, plumbers at some point end up elbows deep in human waste...

Pilots fly planes.

A vast majority of society finds one of those professions WAY cooler than the other. Although now after some time in ATC, I'm starting to think plumbers may have the edge...

And on top of it all, if I screw it up, you all die... (Three cheers for TCAS...)

(Please note the sarcasm and obvious humor of my post... not trying to make anyone mad...)

[Strega]

Pilots fly planes.

Well some do,, but in as 748HO would say,, Some "clean shitters"


S

[BoostedNihilist]

There are integrated courses which are accredited career colleges, which provide the same, if not better training to pilots about piloting in under 1 year.. why it takes twice as long at college defies logic.