Westjet Service going down hill fast

[bmc]

Actually thats not a valid question. Larger aircraft have a lower seat mile cost than smaller aircraft of the same vintage, so price should be cheaper on the larger aircraft. So then we're back to comfort.

The price should be in line with the market. A lower seat cost gives you the opportunity for more margin and flexibility in pricing.

[whiteguy]

Sure it's a nice entertainment system. Paid for in part by the taxpayers of Canada so it should be nice. You and I gave AC a whole bunch of money without any say so that those entertainment systems can stay on and fly half empty from Calgary to Hawaii. Try and keep that in mind next Spring when you file your taxes and you don't get as much back as you thought you would. My two cents.

Lets see proof!!! Amounts $$ and dates "given" to AC........Never happened!!!


Half empty???? All flights to OGG in Dec so far have 15 seats or less open!!!!!! Gotta love that 30 seat B763!!!! To HNL most have 30 or less seats open.

[mikeecho]

i get the sense that you think that the aviation industry in canada isn't fair. in that case, perhaps you would agree that WJ should be required to provide bilingual service to the same degree that AC and ACJ do?

WJ (and any other airline) may be inclined to do so if they had received the same perks that helped AC build it's business and network as a government owned corporation from 1937 to 1988 (including such items as a goverment negotiated airbus fleet, first refusal on rights to new destinations, etc...).

Maybe WJ could get some of those coveted slots in places like LHR in exchange for providing bilingual service?

Sure, the restrictions re: ACPPA are onerous at times, but they come with benefits.

Reminds me of collective agreements. The bargaining unit trades off a paid break in exchange for higher pay, and then complains for the duration of the agreement about the lack of a paid break, conveniently forgetting about the benefit gained.

[mattedfred]

The bargaining unit trades off a paid break in exchange for higher pay, and then complains for the duration of the agreement about the lack of a paid break, conveniently forgetting about the benefit gained.

when was i complaining?

so are you saying that every time a new airline gets an OC that all of the slots at every airport should be open for bid?

so jetsgo or harmony or zoom or whomever should have been able to bid on any WJ or AC slot they wished despite the fact that they just got their OC?

is this what you mean?

[whiteguy]

Maybe WJ could get some of those coveted slots in places like LHR in exchange for providing bilingual service?

Do you really think the LHR airport authority cares whether the airline is bilingual or not????

[Realitychex]

So yet another thread hi-jacked by a pissing contest of my plane is better than your plane...this service question is very important.

I flew WJ yesterday from QM-YZ-OW for the first time in a few years....inflight service was okay, but what got me, was that after flying exclusively on AC and Jazz for the past few years, is how tacky and cheap the WJ inflight entertainment system really is.....I find the AC/Jazz setup much better than WJ's....free movies on a larger screen, canned television programs,more variety of programs, several languages to choose from..... vs..... what 20 live channels, some in french, some that don't work (no signal), some with signal but intermittant, and its very ackward to plug the headset into the armrest, especially with people sitting next to you...you have to sit with your arms folded using your right arm tucked under the other to adjust the volume or change a channel.....whereas all you have to do with the AC/Jazz set up is touch the screen in front of you.....

Will be back to flying AC/Jazz in part for these reasons...as well as a better flight schedule over all....

My 2 cents

And people still wonder how WJ's cost's are so low and why they make money quarter after quarter after quarter.

[whiteguy]

So yet another thread hi-jacked by a pissing contest of my plane is better than your plane...this service question is very important.

I flew WJ yesterday from QM-YZ-OW for the first time in a few years....inflight service was okay, but what got me, was that after flying exclusively on AC and Jazz for the past few years, is how tacky and cheap the WJ inflight entertainment system really is.....I find the AC/Jazz setup much better than WJ's....free movies on a larger screen, canned television programs,more variety of programs, several languages to choose from..... vs..... what 20 live channels, some in french, some that don't work (no signal), some with signal but intermittant, and its very ackward to plug the headset into the armrest, especially with people sitting next to you...you have to sit with your arms folded using your right arm tucked under the other to adjust the volume or change a channel.....whereas all you have to do with the AC/Jazz set up is touch the screen in front of you.....

Will be back to flying AC/Jazz in part for these reasons...as well as a better flight schedule over all....

My 2 cents

And people wonder why WJ's cost's are so low and why they make money quarter after quarter after quarter.

One day that will end, not because it Westjet but because its aviation. The arrogance of some Westjetters is not the airlines best quality I'm glad that only a hand full are like that!!!

My 2 cents!

[jjj]

Reread it.

Post edited.

Still feel free to come by the campus - there's a Starbucks too.

[mattedfred]

edited

[whiteguy]

here is what whiteguy said; "The arrogance of some Westjetters..."

and here is what jjj said; "....that arrogance is prevalent in our company."

talk about jumping to conclusions and putting words in a guys mouth

Thanks mattedfred.

[jjj]

Above post edited.

[whiteguy]

Above post edited.

I'll buy you a coffee!

[Gear Up]

Stickontheice,

Go away....get educated on the history of the Canadian airline industry...and then come back and make your comments.

GU

[KAG]

Alright here's an honest no holds bared assessment...
When it comes to creature comfort it comes down to Boeing VS Airbus. At the end of the day the Airbus is wider, something like 3-5 inches? I’m too lazy to look it up. That extra space gives AC wider seats; they also have bigger TV screens, and IMHO better inflight entertainment options with their free canned movies.

Our SAT TV is nice but has its flaws, and everyone knows it. A hybrid version of the two (canned movies, shows, and some live TV) combined with pay per use WIFI would be the perfect setup.

Our seats are leather, have great leg room and pitch, but are not as wide as the AC seats, and if you have some extra pounds you do notice it.

Our Customer Service system wide is far superior to AC. Yes AC does have some great crews, gate/ticket agents, but overall it’s inconsistent. This is where the WJ culture shines.

AC does have more frequency and destinations, but they do tend to cancel more flights on a regular basis, making STBY travel plans hit and miss. That and they oversell.

We cannot compete with AC when it comes to First class, hot meals, and other luxuries nor should we. Our price is competitive, our brand is strong, and we have a growing customer base. We shouldn’t feel the need to get into these “tit for tat” arguments when really our two companies are very different, have different strengths/weaknesses and different philosophies in business.

We can compare/argue all day long, but all we’ll do is get pissed off.
Our service is not getting worse; we’ve suffered some unexpected issues with our new RES system. It’s unfortunate some on here got caught up in the transition. We’ll be full steam ahead in no time, and by the New Year this will be looked at as one of our teething periods.
Flame away.

[jjj]

"I have a dream that one day, down in Avcanada, with its vitriolic posters, with its moderators having fingers typing the words of "edited for profanity" and "poster warned" -- one day right there in Avcanada, little teal boys and teal girls will be able to join hands with little red boys and red girls as sisters and brothers."

[stickontheice]

Stickontheice,

Go away....get educated on the history of the Canadian airline industry...and then come back and make your comments.

GU

Honestly GU do my comments really stir that much emotion in you that you have to resort to a level douchebagginess that would make a grade schooler roll his eyes?

http://www.edc.ca/english/docs/news/200 ... _16902.htm

July 29 - - $150 Million as part of the $600 million dollar package. Unless I'm mistaken AC took money from us to keep its operations going. Which in turn AC said thanks and started a YC - HNL route.

Honestly guys I don't have anything against AC. I think you put on a fine show. Have some great friends over there. In the end I just think the business model should have been fixed instead of being put on life support. In the long run it would have provided better job security and a better product. GM is a perfect example of what I mean. I think in the end you're going to have a stronger and healthier car company. I don't think the same can be said for AC.

[mikeecho]

The bargaining unit trades off a paid break in exchange for higher pay, and then complains for the duration of the agreement about the lack of a paid break, conveniently forgetting about the benefit gained.

when was i complaining?

so are you saying that every time a new airline gets an OC that all of the slots at every airport should be open for bid?

so jetsgo or harmony or zoom or whomever should have been able to bid on any WJ or AC slot they wished despite the fact that they just got their OC?

is this what you mean?

What I'm saying is...stop throwing out the ACPPA / bilingual requirement thing as such a pain in the rear. It came with a lot of perks (as part of a crown corporation) that conveniently get overlooked.

[mattedfred]

so if it isn't such a pain in the rear than why doesn't WJ follow it to the letter?

[mikeecho]

so if it isn't such a pain in the rear than why doesn't WJ follow it to the letter?

I'm sure they (or any other airline) would have no problem doing so if they received the same benefits that AC received as a crown corporation.
- preferential treatment from the government of Canada towards TCA with regard to the awarding of new routes during the network building stage of TCA
- additional frequencies of new routes (if TCA was offered 2 frequencies and turned the route down, CP was only offered one)
- fleet of A319/320's purchased by the taxpayer
- all of the cash proceeds stemming from the initial treasury issue of up to 45 percent of its shares.

In exchange, AC was subject to several conditions that were placed into legislation in 1988:
-> headquarters would remain in Montreal
-> overhaul centers to remain in Winnipeg, Montreal and Toronto
-> the french language requirement

Based on the fact that AC would never dare close the hangar or move the head office from Montreal (although every once in a while they like to throw that bait out to see if the political climate is such that they can get out of the ACPPA), I would suggest AC essentially reaped all those benefits for little to no cost. Not a bad deal for them.

If such a deal was offered to any other Canadian airline, I'm sure they seriously consider it. Since that's next to impossible, I don't think any airline would be interested in doing it for no benefit.

[The Hammer]

AC recieved a few more treats from government you are leaving out.

1) An organizational culture that is disfunctional that will take several more decades to change (if it ever does). There are many studies that demonstrate that change is unlikley for a organization of this size. Westjet wouldn't be the success it is, without the organizational culture it has.

2) Large retiree group. As demonstrated with GM, Ford, Chrysler, the promises made in the 60's, 70's & 80's (when government own & managed) are very expensive to keep today.

[rigpiggy]

Our seats are leather, have great leg room and pitch, but are not as wide as the AC seats, and if you have some extra pounds you do notice it. .

Though there is a bit more seat pitch, i find the cushions too short which puts pressure on my legs putting them to sleep. for that reason I prefer AC's seats, though I prefer westjet's overall service.

[squawk 7600]

I find flying with Westjet is like dining at "McDonald's"; whereas flying with AC is like dining at "The Keg". Just a touch more class, and a little more professionalism.

Just my 2 cents...

[bmc]

I think Westjet is an excellent airline from a focused business perspective. They're not trying to be all things to all people. They are clear on who they are and what they offer. They don't seem to find themselves struggling every couple of years, requiring labour agreements, government agreements and lots of press.

I could be wrong, and I have been many times before (just ask my wife), but I think they're not only doing something right, but they're damn good at what they do.

I fly low cost all the time in Europe when I'm on personal travel. I get an affordable priced seat in new modern aircraft that's clean. I don't get a meal. For the price differential, no airline meal (unless first class on BA) is worth it. The biscuit shooters are young, energetic and have enthusiasm. Given all the cost cutting over the past two years due to the economy, there really isn't much difference between LCC and legacy airline service in economy class.

I hope to fly Westjet one day. I like their attitude and corporate culture. They're well established on the right track.

[complexintentions]

If you think the woes WS has had/is having with the Sabre transition are something, just wait till you see what happens with rev accounting farmed out...I'm telling ya, depending on a Middle Eastern based IT company is a disastrous proposition.

KAG, I'm pretty sure AC no longer has First Class service, just Business, even if they call it Executive First. Not hating on AC, just a small correction. They are not true three-class. (Y, J & F)

[bmc]

Hey complex...know what SABRE stands for?

S-some
A-axxhole
B-bought
R-redundant
E-equipment