What does 750-1000 hours get you? Advice please.

[dazednconfused]

I dont have the hours yet. I'm in the midst of figuring out if i should leave my good corporate career (that i'm not happy with) and pursue my love of flying. I'm 33, no kids, no debt and not married. I've posted here earlier and i'm trying to come up with a rough plan now.

-I'd buy a 172 and fly it on the weekends/evenings, as much as possible. Keep my day job and avoid debt.
-Aim to rent a twin and build up some MPIC, if possible.

Does a person stand a good chance getting on with one of the operators in Alberta, such as Sunwest, AirSprint, AltaFlights, NAC, ACA, CMA etc etc with 750-1000TT spent in your own plane, cross country etc? Problem is, I dont have a network of friends in the industry. I'm willing to work dispatch, or similar, if it means getting my foot in the door with a good operator.

Thanks again to everyone who's given me advice so far.

[AMM]

Nah I'm just kidding ya, you'll probably get a sweet airport job

[N2]

I wonder if he had to buy his own PPC on that squeegee?

If you do go the buying the aircraft route just watch that those who all of a sudden want to be your buddy aren't just using you for the free plane rides. Networking can be worth it's weight in gold but only if those you network with are truly interested in helping you and not just themselves.

[CPLMike89]

Hours are great and all but operators also like to see operational experience as well. But im sure it could be done.

[Hedley]

I dont have a network of friends in the industry

By the time you had 1000TT you'd know quite a few people, from all the time you spent hanging around the airport!

I think you've got a great plan. Don't go into debt. Spend your evenings and weekends flying your tail off. My only advice would be to travel as much as possible with your airplane. Get out of the circuit, and build up experience going places. Get used to crossing the US border. Get your instrument rating. Visit as many airports and operators as you can. Operating and maintaining your own airplane is excellent experience, despite what people here might say.

Hours are good. Inside references are great. But also, being in the right place at the right time can pay off. When someone abruptly walks out the door for their new job, you want to be the guy standing there that the boss is looking at.

[iflyforpie]

I dunno. There is a real difference IMHO between someone who buys his hours and someone who gets on with a company and earns them.

It isn't much. Doing company training, proficiency checks, reading company manuals, flying in not-the-best weather with not-the-best people to places you don't always want to go, doing non-flying stuff (my project yesterday was re-securing a soffit on the building). But it changes something. It tells me that this guy was willing to persevere in a tough market and isn't afraid to do what it takes for the company, not just his logbook.

Not everybody has 1000 hours and is unattached and debt free when breaking into this industry. I had 375TT, a wife, two kids, and a mortgage when I started my current job. It's not in Alberta, unfortunately, but there are always lots of red plates around.

[dazednconfused]

iflyforpie.

I know where you are coming from but we all start in different situations. I'm earning my hours by working behind a desk and saving money - then flying on my own time. I dont think it's buying hours if i'm like any other person flying on the weekends/evenings and eventually having more TT under my belt. Some have told me to instruct, but keeping my job/pay is simply a better option right now. Others, i've read on the forum, bought an old cessna/piper. Some got very lucky and ended up on a king air. Flying my own plane, for initial hours, is the best option for me.

I dont think working the dock or instructing will make me a significantly better pilot, versus staying in my office job, and flying cross countries on weekends and holidays. 750 or 1000 hours wont allow anyone skip over much and i'm definitely not looking to do so. I'm not afraid of cold weather, hard work, and pitching in around the company for non flying duties. I mentioned in my post I'll work dispatch (i have an interest) if it means i can start with low hours and prove myself to a company. Borek, CMA and Air Sprint come to mind.

I should have restated my question and asked what operators, like the ones I mentioned, typically want for entry FO total time/background.

[Panama Jack]

Problem is, I don’t have a network of friends in the industry.

So, since you have clearly stated the problem, what are you doing towards resolving it?

Networking is probably the single most significant obstacle between you and your dream job. That is not to say that you don't need competence and experience. It is just to say that, unlike what many people seem to think here, thousands of hours do not entitle you to any anything in the aviation industry. Sorry, that is just how it works.

You will constantly see examples of people with a fraction of hours of the higher qualified ones get "the" job. This happened just recently to a friend of mine who, without any Command time in type, aced out about 100 qualified Captains for a Captain position on a very attractive privately-owned jet. What gave him the advantage? The owner knew of him and preferred hiring him over an unknown piece of paper. My friend didn't even think of applying for the job because he figured he was under qualified.

So what is my point? With 1000 hours it could get you a big break in the industry, or entitle you to a job throwing bags. At that qualification you are still very much a commodity. People hire people. At 1210 hours Total Time with 150 multi, I managed to get myself a King Air Captain job. I guarantee you that it had absolutely nothing to do with the weight of my resume or my above-average flying skills and work-ethics (which incidentally 95% of all pilots seem to have) but much more by the networking that I had done in the previous two years.

Get to it!

[5x5]

As both Panama Jack and Hedley have stated, networking should be your #1 priority. However, many people don't know how to do it or won't make the effort. All it really involves is being where your potential network contacts are and being forward without being pushy and introducing yourself to those people.

As a renter, you have the perfect reason to be at the airport. Make sure and rent from all the places that offer rentals - don't tie yourself to one school. It might cost a bit more to do multiple checkouts but that's part of networking. The instructor you fly with during a checkout is going to be working for one of the companies you want an in with in the not too distant future. There's no better way to get to know an instructor and build a connection than to brief and fly with them a bit.

And don't just talk to the dispatchers and instructors, introduce yourself to the CFI and visit from time to time. Just be a nice, pleasant, all around good person. It doesn't hurt to bring coffee and donuts some times as well.

Drop by the FBOs and check out fuel rates, hangar costs, whatever. You may not actually need to know, but it gets you talking to people and gives you a more rounded background. And if you decide to just keep flying recreationally it may well be these guys you wind up dealing with when you have your own plane.

Take advantage of any and all opportuntities if there are social or special events at the airport. Not sure where you are in Alberta, but in Edmonton at CYXD Aviation Edmonton has monthly socials every 3rd Thursday specifically for networking and growing the airport community.

Nothing will happen if you don't put effort into it. And even if nothing comes from it job-wise, you'll have met a lot of nice people and learned a lot about aviation that you wouldn't otherwise. So there's no downside to it.

[Panama Jack]

Networking is a learned art. An excellent book is out on the market and available from numerous sources (Amazon, from your pilot shop, or even direct from ASA) for the cost of a restaurant dinner.

http://www.asa2fly.com/product1.aspx?SI ... uct_ID=739&

This book makes the case for the need to network and gives excellent tips on how to do it. (Hint: as 5x5 points out, it is not the superficial "hit-man" technique that some people imagine it to be)

[Bogart75]

... People hire people. At 1210 hours Total Time with 150 multi, I managed to get myself a King Air Captain job. I guarantee you that it had absolutely nothing to do with the weight of my resume or my above-average flying skills and work-ethics (which incidentally 95% of all pilots seem to have) but much more by the networking that I had done in the previous two years.
...

I agree when the manager knows you and trust you; your Resume won’t matter anymore because trust really matters most. It surpasses all the good Alma mater of the other applicants along with their clean Curriculum vitae if the manager doesn’t trust the applicant. Still there I no harm in trying it is better to try to apply than to be a beggar in the streets.

[rigpiggy]

if it were me, I would buy an early 182, 205, 210, not much more than a newer ie 1970's 172. get my ifr, fly someplace different every weekend, fly to yzf, yev, yxy, ywg, etc... complain of some issue to the local ame, to look at for a bottle of scotch, case of beer etc... talk to anybody there is build hours, experience, network, and scare the sh@t out of yourself once or twice. Get a gig at the local skydive shop, "when you get 500tt should be easy since you will have time on the 182, or equivalent.

[dazednconfused]

I assume a 182, 205 for skydive operators?

[Beefitarian]

Faster, can actually carry 4 people. If you go places with it you'll get farther in the same amount of time.

[Slats]

Your plan is solid but lacking a step or two, in my opinion. If it were me, I wouldn't think that it's as simple as, buy plane, fly plane, get hired by AirSprint. I think that most places want one of two things when hiring a low-timer...previous operational experience (and the associated references) or willingness to work in a ramp/dock capacity until they can determine your suitability for flight crew. I would suggest you approach where you want to go in your career a bit more tactically. If it were me, I'd sit down in front of pilotcareercentre.com with a pen and notepad and do some research into operators that would be an intermediate step between your personal aircraft and your turbine IFR job. I'd be looking for smaller 703 ops with fleets that include aircraft that you could easily get hired to fly and transition to from your personal aircraft (like say, a 206) as well as aircraft that you could upgrade to that would be a "stepping stone" to the turbine IFR job (like say a Navajo.) Send resumes and call those operators to get your name in their minds. Once you've built up a bit of a rapport, plan a cross country that will allow you to drop in on those operators. Hang around for a weekend, . a few bags, go for a beer with the guys and before you know it, you will have a job that will be valuable to your career progression in more ways than you might realize at this point.

[LousyFisherman]

Snip....
-I'd buy a 172 and fly it on the weekends/evenings, as much as possible. Keep my day job and avoid debt.
-Aim to rent a twin and build up some MPIC, if possible.
snip....
.

For your first plane join a partnership.
You will learn what needs to be done to own a plane.
It requires less capital..
It requires less money to fly since fixed costs are shared with partners.
If you cannot fly for a month your partners may fly it.

The downside is conflict when scheduling but I am in a 10 person
club, and in 2.5 years I have had 1 conflict, at 2130H the night before.

After a year or 2 sell your share and buy your own plane, or get into a different partnership. I agree with the "rent whatever plane turns your crank" occasionally.

If you're in the Calgary area PM me, I know of a C150 and possibly a Cardinal that may be looking for partners.

LF

[LousyFisherman]

And isn't there a quarter share in a Pitts in Southern Ontario in the classifieds?

I almost wished I lived there when I read that?

LF

[Jerz]

If you are in Calgary, there is a really nice Super Decathlon at Springbank with about 14 owners (Western Wings). It is obviously VFR only, but you will become WAY better pilot flying tail wheel and some aerobatics. You will also have much more fun, then driving from A to B in your 172. As far as helping you get your first job, having this type of experience may work for or against you, depends on the background of person doing hiring.