CUPE serves strike notice for Oct 13, 2011

[Rockie]

The postal workers were perfectly willing to continue delivering essential mail, and even when they were locked out it had no effect on the national economy. When they were legislated back to work the government imposed a contract that gave them LESS than Canada Post was offering.

The Air Canada PSA's strike was less of an inconvenience for Air Canada than two hours of thunderstorms over Pearson airport. The notion of it being a detriment to the Canadian economy is laughable, yet the government was using that as the reason for back to work legislation. They don't even bother to come up with semi-believable lies.

A strike by Air Canada FA's will not threaten the economy either, because if it did Air Canada would be declared an essential service.

The government is using this to pursue permanent changes to the Canada Labour Code.

Wake up Duranium. This is an ideological attack on ALL worker's rights in Canada that has absolutely nothing to do with the economy.

[the original tony]

I love it. Second contract which the union conceded was a good deal was still not enough so bargaining gave way to greed. This is what you get.
Do some research. RBC has moved off DB plans due to their high cost. A BANK.
But all of our online negotiators and economists here believe we, AC, have the money to keep a DB plan.
I think it's time to wake up rockie. Just like age 60 in your mind is dead so are greedy unions.

[Rockie]

I love it. Second contract which the union conceded was a good deal was still not enough so bargaining gave way to greed. This is what you get.
Do some research. RBC has moved off DB plans due to their high cost. A BANK.
But all of our online negotiators and economists here believe we, AC, have the money to keep a DB plan.
I think it's time to wake up rockie. Just like age 60 in your mind is dead so are greedy unions.

So we can expect an immediate announcement from you forfeiting your DB pension so as not to appear greedy?

BTW, CUPE said the first TA was a good deal as did ACPA. You might have forgotten that tidbit.

[Old fella]

"Wake up Duranium. This is an ideological attack on ALL worker's rights in Canada that has absolutely nothing to do with the economy."

Got that right. They(harperites) will go down as the most ideological adminstration to date. Even ole Jean C. the scrapper and adscammer didn't go this low nor did ole Muldoon in the 80's when he was kissing Ronald Raygun's ass.

However it is useless to complain when close to 50% of your electorate don't bother to show up thus giving Harperites a majority with just under 40% of those who did decide to come out at election time. This is the crux of the issue when employees(FAs) of ONE of the country's airlines is considered essential in that they will be ordered back by the government while said adminstration seek s to amend the labor code for ideological purposes.

[System Message]

This union has developed policy which has been designed to promote a culture of us versus them, and anyone in the union who does not publicly go along with the leadership and their policy of marginalizing of Canadians is not welcome to work there. The bosses use the threat of economic intimidation against the membership in order to further themselves at the expense of others. There is sufficient power in this union to control the media and by extension the elected members and their policies. This is the sort of club, meaning union boards of directors, where policies of oppression such as carbon taxes, the firearms act, and special laws for special groups are made.

[Rockie]

This union has developed policy which has been designed to promote a culture of us versus them, and anyone in the union who does not publicly go along with the leadership and their policy of marginalizing of Canadians is not welcome to work there. The bosses use the threat of economic intimidation against the membership in order to further themselves at the expense of others. There is sufficient power in this union to control the media and by extension the elected members and their policies. This is the sort of club, meaning union boards of directors, where policies of oppression such as carbon taxes, the firearms act, and special laws for special groups are made.

Not long ago ACPA promoted a culture of "us" with "them" and it didn't work out so well for reasons you're not likely to understand.

You also might not have noticed but the Conservatives are in power now. They're not very friendly to unions or workers in Canada and aren't listening to them much.

[System Message]

The Conservative party is doing much more to improve the situation of the workers than the union.

[Rockie]

The Conservative party is doing much more to improve the situation of the workers than the union.

You made a funny. But you're not entirely wrong which is an indictment of the unions representing Air Canada employees.

[System Message]

The union ought to stick to negotiating working conditions and the compensation of those who are employed there. I have not looked into this negotiation as what they are being paid is none of my business. The Canadian Union OF Public Employees is seen as an enemy of a large number of Canadians, and membership is like being a party member in the old Soviet Union.

[Justjohn]

However it is useless to complain when close to 50% of your electorate don't bother to show up thus giving Harperites a majority with just under 40% of those who did decide to come out at election time. This is the crux of the issue when employees(FAs) of ONE of the country's airlines is considered essential in that they will be ordered back by the government while said adminstration seek s to amend the labor code for ideological purposes.

Actually Old fella, they got about 42 %. You imply that it's somehow not a legit government. It's ~equal to the BEST numbers Chretien or Trudeau ever got, seriously look it up. Declining voter turnout tho, that is a Serious problem. I can't understand why ppl are far more aware of civil rights and neglect civil responsibilities. They are 2 sides of the same coin.

And for the many ppl lately who seem to suddenly believe that anything less than 50% of the popular vote implies less legitimacy ... there have only been 5 elections in all of our history that resulted >50% ... and the first 3 were before 1900. And the last ? Brian Mulrooney's 2nd Term.

I DO hope the FA's get a fair deal.

[Mig29]

Anyone that can pass a Medical and have $$ can get a pilot's license as well.

Hope you are kidding, right?! Unless you are talking about the weekend warrior pilot, then we agree.

A strike by Air Canada FA's will not threaten the economy either, because if it did Air Canada would be declared an essential service.

The government is using this to pursue permanent changes to the Canada Labour Code.

Wake up Duranium. This is an ideological attack on ALL worker's rights in Canada that has absolutely nothing to do with the economy.

Couldn't agree more with you on this! This is just our greedy government flexing their muscle on workers rights!

I say, keep the governemnt out side of this and let FAs and AC figure it out! If it takes 3 TA's then so be it. Trying to sell to public that AC is a "essenital service" company is pure bullcrap!

I will never agree that Pilots and FAs can be on the level field, but I will respect them for what they do. As long as they keep their contract 'aspirations' reasonable. Making $18K as a starting wage is definitively not acceptable!

[Old fella]

However it is useless to complain when close to 50% of your electorate don't bother to show up thus giving Harperites a majority with just under 40% of those who did decide to come out at election time. This is the crux of the issue when employees(FAs) of ONE of the country's airlines is considered essential in that they will be ordered back by the government while said adminstration seek s to amend the labor code for ideological purposes.

Actually Old fella, they got about 42 %. You imply that it's somehow not a legit government. It's ~equal to the BEST numbers Chretien or Trudeau ever got, seriously look it up. Declining voter turnout tho, that is a Serious problem. I can't understand why ppl are far more aware of civil rights and neglect civil responsibilities. They are 2 sides of the same coin.

And for the many ppl lately who seem to suddenly believe that anything less than 50% of the popular vote implies less legitimacy ... there have only been 5 elections in all of our history that resulted >50% ... and the first 3 were before 1900. And the last ? Brian Mulrooney's 2nd Term.

I DO hope the FA's get a fair deal.

Yes you are correct on PET popular vote, matter of fact in 1968, PET only got 46% at the height of his" Trudeaumania", ole JC was much less for his 3 majority elections, similar to Harper now. Muldoon in 1984(height of his popularity) he beat them all with just over 50% as you indicated. I don't think I implied that Harper's adminstration isn't legit, as it certainly is, even though he only got 1 in 4 votes. Harper does have a majority mandate and has the right to inplement policies as he sees fit no matter how distasteful others(who didn't support him) feel. We have 4 years of his adminstration to face and like PET(Constitution/Charter), Muldoon(Free Trade) and Jean C.(no Iraq), Harper is looking for his own legacy. Picking on a private sector company(Air Canada), singling out one of it's divisions(Flight Attendants), and laying into them with heavy handed legistlation( as an esential service.....) I shudder to think what is in store next 4 years. I hope the youngins take serious note and get out to change this direction. I have been around 63 yrs and this is the spookiest time I have ever seen

[Justjohn]

Mulrooney's 2nd mandate garnered over 50% of the popular vote and far exceeded either Trudeau or Chretien.

The economy today has everyone very worried.

[TheSuit]

Every country does that suit, none more effectively than your heroes in Dubai. But what does that have to do with worker's rights in Canada?

It has to do with Air Canada employees working for an essential service disguised as a business. Cheap transportation and logistics systems (and now information systems) are what drive societies and economies, trade and all that. Governments like to control those types of things and generally like them to be cheap and accessible. That's why AC is hamstrung with useless backwater routes and the OLA noose. Uppity pilots and flight attendants pushing ticket prices up is a no-no.

[fly4ever]

I guess the handle the suit says it all

[yyz monkey]

Been hearing rumours about this since the CAW strike in June: http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/videos/160458

[Rockie]

I love the internet sometimes.

First the Winnipeg hotel fiasco and now getting caught red handed giving gifts to a cabinet minister directly involving herself in a labour dispute. Air Canada and the federal government invited a bare knuckle fight and they're getting it.

How many other skeletons would Air Canada and the government like to see aired in public?

[Mig29]

as if this upgrade to J was the only thing she received from AC management for a job "well done"

[Old fella]

Of course, did you expect anything less. They(higher-ups) always look after each other irespictive, of political strip. Been that way since I have been around and that has been a long time.

[Doug Moore]

It has to do with Air Canada employees working for an essential service disguised as a business. Cheap transportation and logistics systems (and now information systems) are what drive societies and economies, trade and all that. Governments like to control those types of things and generally like them to be cheap and accessible. That's why AC is hamstrung with useless backwater routes and the OLA noose. Uppity pilots and flight attendants pushing ticket prices up is a no-no.

Suit: I suspect that AC would itself oppose being declared an essential service, in part because every community with an airport would soon be demanding service because such service would be deemed by them to be “essential” to the well-being of their community; not to mention the disadvantage (real or perceived) for AC at the negotiating table in negotiating with employees who are providing an essential service.

As for your inflammatory comment about “uppity pilots and flight attendants pushing ticket prices up”, perhaps I am wasting electrons here by reminding you (again) that pilot wages comprise roughly 3% of the total cost of an airline ticket. Perhaps it makes you feel better (just like in the Blame Canada song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOzG7bBylRo ) to blame the pilots and F/As for the cost of your airline ticket, but as in the song, repeating such inaccuracies only reveals your ignorance, in this case, of the true costs of an airline ticket.

It always amazes me that the traveling public thinks nothing of spending $50 to take a cab to the airport (or $90 to park their car at the airport for a week), and then thinks that they are getting ripped off if they can’t fly YYZ-YOW for $99. But let’s not go there, eh?

[Mechanic787]

It would be an error, as I see it, to view this dispute strictly in terms of employees versus employer. As is clearly in evidence today and as was evident over the course of the past few days, this dispute is anything but a simple industrial relations dispute. We are only beginning to see a signficant paradigm shift in industrial relations that can only accelerate over the course of the next few years, given the political cards in the deck.

Notwithstanding a long history of the evolution of collective bargaining in Canada, with all of its plusses and minuses, including many formal government assessments and recommendations regarding the processes of conflict resolution, including the seminal 1969 Woods Task Force Report on Industrial Relations,initiated as a result of a major railway strike, and referenced in this journal article: http://www.jstor.org/pss/2521807, and notwithstanding CUPW's announced court challenge today of the legal authority of the government to usurp the agenda and free will of the parties to the collective bargaining process (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le2079715/), make no mistake, we are now headed down a totally different path of employer-employee relations.

Given the cards in that deck, we must now prepare ourselves for changes in our own expectations not only about the process but also about the outcomes.

[duranium]

The government is using this to pursue permanent changes to the Canada Labour Code.

You are 100% correct on that part of your statement

This is an ideological attack on ALL worker's rights in Canada

Again 100% correct

that has absolutely nothing to do with the economy.

This is where our opinions diverge. As I wrote in other words a few days ago, the economy of North America and Europe's monetary union is heading south at an accelerated pace, just consult any information vehicle for verification. Even Stats Canada's numbers in the next month or so will add credence to the aforementioned.

So, the potential strike by the F/A's is the vehicle by which the Feds are papering over an unacceptable change to Canada's social fabric. You know and I know that the F/A's are in a lose/lose situation. They seem to ignore this because they never won anything in a strike and one of the reasons is that they are unlicensed thus replacable, in theory anyway.

They have been offered over 2.5% per annum wage increase over a 4 year contract plus other fringe benefits and they still turned the package down. Reality is not winner take all in negotiations, it's give and take. And, an other falacy that they and pilots also suffer from is they think that they will recoup or snap back part or all of their previously acquired benefits they gave up during A/C's reorganisation. Must all be reminded that we , ei all Canadians , live in the world economy and this economy has changed since then and is changing fasther than before. What is gone is gone, for good. Time to live in the twenty first century you all.

Now if 6800 tax paying individuals want to hand the Feds the armor plated vehicle to sneak in a very unpalatable and regressive change to this fabric, then what can anybody say. For them , it's me, me me. but in the end they will lose and all of us bystanders will also take the hit.

[Rockie]

I have deliberately not made a single comment on the merits of what the FA's are holding out for or their chances of achieving it. What I'm concerned with is their right, and every unionized employee in Canada's right to negotiate their working conditions and withdraw their services if necessary as a controlled and legal means of expressing their determination to achieve a fair contract.

Yes, everyone knows our economy is fragile unless they've been living under a rock. What's equally obvious to someone not under the same rock is the fact a strike by postal workers, Air Canada PSA's, FA's and perhaps pilots will not further damage the economy in any way. It is an absurd smokescreen the government is using to conduct their purely ideological attack on worker's rights in this country. They mean to enact permanent changes that will effect us long after the economy recovers. You know that.

Compared to what the government is doing to worker's rights in this country individual union circumstances are small potatoes. That's why every single union in the country should be raising bloody hell before the conservatives set us back 100 years.

This government's idea of collective bargaining is paying it lip-service right up until the start of a worker's shift, then it's "shut the f*** up and get to work or you'll be charged".

[Mig29]

They have been offered over 2.5% per annum wage increase over a 4 year contract plus other fringe benefits and they still turned the package down.

Duranium, I'm not picking at you, just pointing out what you wrote. I wish I knew what they were actually offered, but say you are correct on the wage increase and other 'perks'. But as you said, its give and take game, so what is AC looking from them?? I'm sure it's worth to F/As a lot more then a dollar or two pay raise. I wish someone could disclose few of their demands and they we can "judge" these negotiations.

Must all be reminded that we , ei all Canadians , live in the world economy and this economy has changed since then and is changing fasther than before. What is gone is gone, for good. Time to live in the twenty first century you all.

I don't agree with you! Why live with the NWO? Just because Uncle Sam said so!? Because he is on a global war with anyone who disagrees with him, and because of that is suffering economically right now, that we have to follow the same path? Because our own Gov't is in bed with their political pigs we have deal with the same faith? So tomorrow, when they start attacking more innocent nations to feed their hunger for oil, resources, military we'll follow as well? Hitler did that once, and some nations chose to stand with him and some we against him. I chose to stand against these pricks and fight for the hard working guy, rather then some Wallstreet stock scam artists who will never be satisfied until he has more then the guy next to him! F*** THEM ALL!! Maybe a bit too deep and a decade or century ahead, but you guys get the point

End or rent

[crazy_aviator]

Last i heard , the big 3 autoworkers were making an average of 74 Dollars an hour , all benefits inclusive, YOUR damn right these ignorant SELFISH SLOBS need to be brocken, for they are hurting our nation !

PS: Ever seen a video of the beer belly scum that walk out of a ford or GM or chrysler plant these days ?