Flying in light/moderate icing

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traveller123
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Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by traveller123 »

I have several questions for people with experience in icing conditions regarding flying in light/moderate icing in uncontrolled airspace with a non-equipped aircraft.

I read a lot about inflight icing but if you could share your experiences it would be very helpful.

From what I've read, it says that in light icing it takes up to 1 hour to pick up 1/4 inch of ice and in moderate icing 5 to 15 minutes to get the 1/4 inch. Is it right? Normally is the icing forecast in GFA reliable?

Here's my rule : maximum 15 minutes in light icing and 5 minutes in moderate (to climb/descent through a thin layer of clouds). Climbing at Vy and steep descents with pitot heat and windshield defrost ON.

thanx
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vrrotate
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by vrrotate »

...seriously? Flying into known icing with a non-equipped aircraft is one of the dumbest things you can do with an airplane... please clarify your question.
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KK7
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by KK7 »

traveller123 wrote:I have several questions for people with experience in icing conditions regarding flying in light/moderate icing in uncontrolled airspace with a non-equipped aircraft.

I read a lot about inflight icing but if you could share your experiences it would be very helpful.

From what I've read, it says that in light icing it takes up to 1 hour to pick up 1/4 inch of ice and in moderate icing 5 to 15 minutes to get the 1/4 inch. Is it right? Normally is the icing forecast in GFA reliable?

Here's my rule : maximum 15 minutes in light icing and 5 minutes in moderate (to climb/descent through a thin layer of clouds). Climbing at Vy and steep descents with pitot heat and windshield defrost ON.

thanx
In my experience the GFA information is very wide scale and general, and is generally representative of the rough conditions in the region.

As for the purpose of your questions, are you asking how much ice you should be planning to fly through in a non ice equipped aircraft? If so I'd say zero, as if the shit hits the fan you potentially don't have a way to shed that ice. Your "rule" of 15 minutes in light or 5 minutes in moderate in a non-ice equipped aircraft is unwise, IMHO...
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Deltawidget
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Deltawidget »

Hold on guys, let me grab some popcorn for this one
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Liquid Charlie
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Liquid Charlie »

one unknown to keep in mind - light icing can be severe icing depending on type - and of course wtf has uncontrolled airspace to do with it and are you flying imc on vfr rules and fuel -- is this for real or is someone jerking on our chain -- :roll:
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Rookie50
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Rookie50 »

I'll grab the pretzels. The poster does not want to hear my response, trust me....
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xsbank
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by xsbank »

I might suggest that as long as you are solo, you should stay in icing conditions LONGER, because then we will all be able to cluck and squawk about "pilots these days" and "wonder where he learned to fly" and you will likely find a much larger audience than just on here (Globe and Mail? National Post?). Then perhaps you might be an object lesson to anybody else who thinks like you do and perhaps you won't have just been a WOS.

Popcorn? More likely a case of beer.
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CFR
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by CFR »

A lot can happen in 5 minutes in moderate icing ...

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 5c0187.pdf
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FL280
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by FL280 »

I normally don't care to chime in on stupidity, well not all the time anyways, but seriously?? You have a 'rule' for flying a non icing equipped aircraft in icing?? Having flown in NWO for a few years I can bet my arse that certain operators propagate this mentality because 'it's not that bad' or 'I've seen this airplane with far more icing on it and it operated just fine' or my personal favorite, 'it's only a little ice'. Most pilots have that 'got away with one' moment and hopefully, if nothing else, will have that permanent underwear skidmark to remember said stupid moment by. Fill us in on where you are flying and for what operator, that way when the TSB comes calling for reasons why a perfectly good aircraft is now a smoking hole in the terra firma, we've got forum comments to forward on to them.
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ipilot54
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by ipilot54 »

Troll :?:
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traveller123
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by traveller123 »

some people flying this type of aircraft told me that ``it can load a lot of ice``

that's why i'm asking the question here

so, I guess flying shortly through a cloud layer with ``nil-light icing above freezing level`` will be more wise

and again with the GFA, is it fair to skirt the area of moderate/severe icing, or those areas are not specific?
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Sulako
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Sulako »

There are only a few things that can absolutely kill you if you fly into them. First is the planet. Second is a thunderstorm. Third is icing.

If your plane doesn't have the proper equipment to deal with it, treat all icing as severe.

That means if you pick up any icing, immediately exit the conditions (do a 180, climb or descend etc).

It only takes a layer of ice the thickness of sandpaper to cause your wing to lose 30% lift and increase drag by up to 40%. That's just your wing - icing on the propellor can cause an imbalance that will rip the prop off, and icing on your windshield can completely obscure your vision.

You need to respect icing - it will kill pilots this winter, and you don't want to be one of them.

http://www.pilotfriend.com/safe/safety/ ... itions.htm

To answer your second question: A GFA provides a general picture, but until you fly an airplane that has full de/anti-ice, you should plan your flights to avoid the areas where it even might show up.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Colonel Sanders »

In a known-icing equipped aircraft, I do not intentionally
flight plan through moderate icing, which is anything but.

However. If I am enroute and there is a layer of moderate
icing below me and my destination, I will stay high, turn
everything on, and divebomb through it. I cannot imagine
doing that in a non-equipped aircraft.

Free advice: in a non-equipped aircraft, only tackle supposed
light icing when it is a thin layer that you can quickly get on top
of and only if you have an enormously powerful engine.

It's completely illegal, of course. I hope that in addition to the
usual concerns (ice on wing and windshield) you have considered
tailplane stalling, oil breather freezer plugging up, and fuel
vents plugging up.
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Doc
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Doc »

Rookie50 wrote:I'll grab the pretzels. The poster does not want to hear my response, trust me....
Can I share your pretzels if I bring the beer? He doesnt want me to chime in either. Trust me.
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YWGGuy
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by YWGGuy »

And you sir or mame are the type of person that promotes operators to push their pilots "because the last guy did it".

You're either going to kill yourself, hurt your self or be lucky and not get hurt yourself. The latter is more concerning because the next guy may get pressured into doing what you're doing now and may not be lucky.

When you are approved for icing you can fly through some (not all) icing.

When you are not approved for icing you can not fly any icing.

I hope I am clear with that last remark. It is stupid to do and the reality is almost all non icing certified airplanes are underpowered. Which makes a bad situation worse.

I do not know you but if you ever have aspirations to go to Westjet, Air Canada or the like and TC happens to fine you this will come up during your interview. Further more I'd doubt your parents, siblings or friends would appreciate going to a funeral for someone for being an idiot.

It will happen where you get into unforcasted icing, that is a situation where you got to get out of there ASAP. When you're deliberately entering icing you're setting yourself to be a Darwin Award recipient.
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by CFR »

traveller123 wrote:some people
Clearly NOT your friends
flying this type of aircraft
Likely not beyond this winter
told me that ``it can load a lot of ice``
:shock:

Did they also mention that you don't have to clean off frost and snow?

Remember that advice like this comes from lucky ones who made it. The ones who have definitive proof that it is a bad idea are usually not around to give advice.

Planning to fly through icing is a bad idea! There are enough stories on AOPA and other flight information sites, that you should be discouraged from even condsidering it!
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flyinthebug
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by flyinthebug »

You obviously are a troll.
ANY PPL knows not to fly a "non-equipped" aircraft into known icing period. Only a moron would do something so stupid and dangerous. Your "rule" will get you killed in a hurry sir. Go bother some other forum with your idiotic question(s).
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iflyforpie
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by iflyforpie »

Image
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by Siddley Hawker »

Be interesting to know what type of non-equipped airplane it is, non? :D
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iflyforpie
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Re: Flying in light/moderate icing

Post by iflyforpie »

Yes, that would be the 'icing' on the cake....
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