SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister
SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/denton/C ... 77461.html
Crazy footage, not the way the pilot must have pictured his first solo ending.
Crazy footage, not the way the pilot must have pictured his first solo ending.
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
One can only assume that the inevitable litigation results of this case will be very interesting...
- Colonel Sanders
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Reminds me a bit of a similiarly-configured
airport in Ontario, that has a busy road just
to the north of the runway!
Heckuva first solo!!
airport in Ontario, that has a busy road just
to the north of the runway!
Heckuva first solo!!
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Hmm just a wee bit low on that approach! Guess that is why the threshold is displaced. 

Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Colonel Sanders wrote:Reminds me a bit of a similiarly-configured
airport in Ontario, that has a busy road just
to the north of the runway!
Heckuva first solo!!
The one with the railway just north of the road as well? Kinda feels like playing Frogger some days.
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 09KbgpZh2Q
There is a stop line painted on the road, and the suv occupants admit they didn't see the painted stop, or the plane. Don't worry though some lawyer will take the case
There is a stop line painted on the road, and the suv occupants admit they didn't see the painted stop, or the plane. Don't worry though some lawyer will take the case
- cdnpilot77
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Listening to the news in the US, the vehicles occupants were doing ok after being released from the hospital after they were struck by the airplane. They are still trying to decide whether to press charges since this event traumatized them so badly
What a joke.
Sadly, the pilot, who was very close to attaining his ppl, has decided to not continue flying.

Sadly, the pilot, who was very close to attaining his ppl, has decided to not continue flying.
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Is the pilot not able to exercise his right in the U.S. to sue the SUV driver for attempting to kill him with his truck by placing it into the path of his aircraft? Obviously the common sense truth is that neither ended up deliberately trying to hurt the other but I doubt that matters when it comes to litigation.
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
This could go either way. The way I see, both were at fault.
The pilot was WAY low on approach, there is a significant displaced threshold on that runway (probably because of the road..?)
From what we can see in the video it doesn't look like the driver stopped at the painted sign on the road, but then its not very clearly painted.....I'm sure the lawyers will have fun with this one.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Roanoke, ... Texas&z=19
The pilot was WAY low on approach, there is a significant displaced threshold on that runway (probably because of the road..?)
From what we can see in the video it doesn't look like the driver stopped at the painted sign on the road, but then its not very clearly painted.....I'm sure the lawyers will have fun with this one.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Roanoke, ... Texas&z=19
- cdnpilot77
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
You can clearly see the "STOP" painted on the road in that google map picture, with a truck seemingly stopped right there. In the US you will see a lot of school zones with similar markings, does this mean if they successfully sue it would be ok to be oblivious, run through the marks and hit a kid going to school then blame and sue the kid for running into the vehicle? SUV is clearly at fault!
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
The plane was not too low on approach. There is no rules saying at what height you must be crossing that fence. It does not matter if he needed to add a ton of power to make it or not, he did nothing wrong.
The people in the SUV however, disobeyed a stop sign. If they want to sue someone, it should be the people who own the road. (Apparently its not the airport)
The mentality of the people driving however is mind boggling...
"You were hit by a plane"
"I know"
"Why did you drive in front of a plane?"
"We didn't drive in front of a plane!"
Uh, clearly you did.
The people in the SUV however, disobeyed a stop sign. If they want to sue someone, it should be the people who own the road. (Apparently its not the airport)
The mentality of the people driving however is mind boggling...
"You were hit by a plane"
"I know"
"Why did you drive in front of a plane?"
"We didn't drive in front of a plane!"
Uh, clearly you did.
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
They need ARCAL activated stop lights 

- YYZSaabGuy
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Actually, as both J31 and I_Heart have pointed out, he was way low on approach - at first I thought I was watching an Air France arrival at St. Maarten.lilflyboy262 wrote:The plane was not too low on approach. There is no rules saying at what height you must be crossing that fence. It does not matter if he needed to add a ton of power to make it or not, he did nothing wrong.

Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Actually, I think the FTU might ultimately be responsible if they did not include a " check no SUVs on approach " and took no SMS action to minimize the apparent risk of such an encounter 

Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Interestingly, if you look into the weather history on Wunderground for the time of the incident, you will see that yet again there was a low-level windshear event - probably enhanced by the wake turbulence of the white vehicle crossing the threshold. Due to this being an uncontrolled airport, there was no chance for the tower to issue a last minute windshear advisory resulting in a low approach. The black SUV also suffered from the same windsher effect, reducing braking efficiency and distracting the driver who's hands were full controlling his car/cellphone/coffee/wife and consequently did not notice the C172 on short final. As always, there is more to this than meets the eye.....
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
PDW is that you?jump154 wrote:Interestingly, if you look into the weather history on Wunderground for the time of the incident, you will see that yet again there was a low-level windshear event - probably enhanced by the wake turbulence of the white vehicle crossing the threshold. Due to this being an uncontrolled airport, there was no chance for the tower to issue a last minute windshear advisory resulting in a low approach. The black SUV also suffered from the same windsher effect, reducing braking efficiency and distracting the driver who's hands were full controlling his car/cellphone/coffee/wife and consequently did not notice the C172 on short final. As always, there is more to this than meets the eye.....

Swiss cheese model if you ask me. If the SUV was a minute earlier or later, if the driver saw and obeyed the stop sign, if the plane was on a proper path to touch down at the displaced threshold, if the road wasn't there, if the pilot decided to go around or reduce his approach angle, if it wasn't his first solo, etc, etc,etc.
It does boggle my mind how an airport can get itself into that predicament. The airport I fly out of is private, but there are still distance, height, and slope restrictions on everything.
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Zero flaps strikes me as an odd choice for a first solo.
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
I guess a STOP SIGN would be just asking for trouble.
After exhaustive research, I have learned the real cause. Pilot had his head down completing his extensive pre landing checklist. He was on page three of the five page checklist at the time of the accident. Develop a scan, people.
After exhaustive research, I have learned the real cause. Pilot had his head down completing his extensive pre landing checklist. He was on page three of the five page checklist at the time of the accident. Develop a scan, people.
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
That car didnt stop because it was a volvo...rigpiggy wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 09KbgpZh2Q
There is a stop line painted on the road, and the suv occupants admit they didn't see the painted stop, or the plane. Don't worry though some lawyer will take the case

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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Again YYZSaabGuy, He may have been low on approach, but it is not his fault that he hit the car. Whos to say he wouldn't have realised and added a ton of power to make the displaced threshold. Had the plane been on the ground then it would have been a different story.
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
So we agree that he was low, and we can also agree that the fault seems to be primarily with the SUV driver.Again YYZSaabGuy, He may have been low on approach, but it is not his fault that he hit the car.
Pretty sure that even in a light piston single, given his descent rate in the last few seconds prior to impact, he wouldn't have had the time to get back to recover to full RPM, arrest the descent and achieve level flight, and then drag the airplane another 400' down the runway to the DT markings. Now if he'd been flying that CF18....maybe.....Whos to say he wouldn't have realised and added a ton of power to make the displaced threshold.

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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Here's an excerpt from CARs AGA -3.0 Runway Characteristics:
Do FARs mirror this? If so the pilot wouldn't technically be "wrong" to land on the displaced portion of the runway.
3.3 Displaced Runway Threshold
Occasionally, natural and human-made obstacles penetrate the obstacle limitation surfaces of the take-off and approach paths to runways.
To ensure that a safe clearance from these obstacles is maintained, it is necessary to displace the runway thresholds. In the case of runways for which instrument approach procedures are published in the CAP, the usable runway distances for landings and takeoffs are specified as declared distances. The displacements are also depicted on the aerodrome or airport diagram in both the CAP and the CFS. For other runways not having published CAP approaches, the requisite data is given in the CFS. Where a threshold is displaced, it is marked as shown in AGA 5.4.1.
When the portion of the runway before the displaced threshold is marked with displaced threshold arrows (see AGA 5.4.1), it is permissible to use that portion of the runway for taxiing, for takeoff and for the landing roll-out from the opposite direction. In addition, this displaced portion of the runway may be used for landing; however, it is the pilot’s responsibility to ensure that the descent path can be safely adjusted to clear all obstacles. When taking off from the end opposite to the displaced threshold, pilots should recognize the fact that there are obstacles present that penetrated above the approach slope to the physical end of the runway, which resulted in the threshold being displaced.
Gerry
Do FARs mirror this? If so the pilot wouldn't technically be "wrong" to land on the displaced portion of the runway.
3.3 Displaced Runway Threshold
Occasionally, natural and human-made obstacles penetrate the obstacle limitation surfaces of the take-off and approach paths to runways.
To ensure that a safe clearance from these obstacles is maintained, it is necessary to displace the runway thresholds. In the case of runways for which instrument approach procedures are published in the CAP, the usable runway distances for landings and takeoffs are specified as declared distances. The displacements are also depicted on the aerodrome or airport diagram in both the CAP and the CFS. For other runways not having published CAP approaches, the requisite data is given in the CFS. Where a threshold is displaced, it is marked as shown in AGA 5.4.1.
When the portion of the runway before the displaced threshold is marked with displaced threshold arrows (see AGA 5.4.1), it is permissible to use that portion of the runway for taxiing, for takeoff and for the landing roll-out from the opposite direction. In addition, this displaced portion of the runway may be used for landing; however, it is the pilot’s responsibility to ensure that the descent path can be safely adjusted to clear all obstacles. When taking off from the end opposite to the displaced threshold, pilots should recognize the fact that there are obstacles present that penetrated above the approach slope to the physical end of the runway, which resulted in the threshold being displaced.
Gerry
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Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
I guess the old joke about the difference between a porcupine and a BMW now applies to Volvos!
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
Those S model 172's can be interesting. Even with only a slight application of power they can float in the flare and easily achieve flare distances of 4-500ft+. Especially with no flaps on (which I agree is a curious choice). Personally I would have thrown flaps on and gone in a little slower and with a little greater angle on approach but he really is not set up badly to be touching down right on or near the threshold. It doesn't take an F18 to manage thatYYZSaabGuy wrote:Actually, as both J31 and I_Heart have pointed out, he was way low on approach - at first I thought I was watching an Air France arrival at St. Maarten.lilflyboy262 wrote:The plane was not too low on approach. There is no rules saying at what height you must be crossing that fence. It does not matter if he needed to add a ton of power to make it or not, he did nothing wrong.He cleared the fenceline by maybe four feet before piling into the SUV and was very obviously on a descending glidepath - there is no possible way (unless maybe he was flying a CF18) that he would have avoided touching down well in advance of the displaced threshold (which looks on Google Maps to be a good 400' past the approach end of the runway). Of course, this doesn't detract from the SUV driver's apparent miss on the stop sign.
Re: SUV Collides with Aircraft on Approach
WX data/records not available for the airport / location; the windsock is visible in one camera angle. The pilot's 'hands were full' also, delivering photo-op/1st-solo for camera/wife.iflyforpie wrote:It does boggle my mind how an airport can get itself into that predicament.jump154 wrote: ... distracting the driver whose hands were full controlling car/cellphone/coffee/wife ....
FYI 6 weeks prior a TKOF claimed lives of instructor and student 1/4 mile off the south end of same runway 17, 'failing to clear trees'; Sept-22 2012 13:20 local time, Roanoke TX, Aviation Safety Network.
This SUV/172 collision is on Saturday Nov-3/2012 10:48 local time, as "15:48" in the ASN report would have to be UTC (shade in the video/photo is cast by a late-morning sun).