YVR for New Hires

[LeakyFloats]

Hi guys, just trying to get a guage on working at AC and have a few questions. My family is in Western Canada and I would prefer for them to stay here rather than moving to YYZ.

What's the current wait time for a new hire YYZ based EMB FO to get a YVR based position?

How about YWG? If a new hire was given a YYZ based 320 position how long is it taking guys to get a YWG 320 position?

If given let's say a YYZ based EMB FO position and a YVR based RP position comes up can I bid it? Or am I frozen on type for a certain length of time.

Sorry for the barrage of questions just want to make to right decisions if an offer comes my way.

[TheStig]

It's a bit of a coin toss, in the past year a few pilots have been able to pick up YVR positions while on course others have had to wait for one or two equipment bids to pick up the base. Once awarded the base most pilot are transfered within 2-3 months.

As a new hire you will be frozen on type for 4 years, once trained, you will be able to bid for what ever position you'd like, but the company doesn't have to (and likely wont) award the position to you. The status quo has changed with the new contract, for example, as a result of the 4 year position freeze the junior pilot currently awarded YVR is a 320 FO. In 2 months it might be a 767 RP...

Unless you live in YWG you're probably better off commuting to YYZ or YVR. You'll build seniority faster which makes life commuting much easier.

Life commuting as a junior pilot isn't easy, but if you're interested in flying for AC I'd recommend looking past the first couple years, plan on a year to pick up a YVR position and you'll probably end up pleasantly surprised.

[JZA]

Timing is everything as they say. Hired six years ago I could not get YVR base for almost 3 years ... And commuted for those three years. Nowadays I see the bottoms 10 YVR EMJ FOs all with less than 1 year seniority.

The YVR-YYZ commute while long, is relatively easy. Lots of flights...lots of widebodies with multiple jump seats. I'd say it's better than commuting YZ-WG or YZ-HZ.

Good Luck!

[flyby_bc]

The latest bid 12-04 shows 2 new hire 767 RP positions in YVR. You just never know, luck of the draw.

[flyby_bc]

As well as 3 777 RP and 4 A330 RP positions in VR.

[onetreehill]

That's because you can't live in YVR on those wages.

[TheStig]

That's because you can't live in YVR on those wages.

Actually those positions are vacant because a number of YYZ based EMJ FO's hired since August 2012 weren't awarded them because of the 4 Year new hire position freeze. I think we all can agree the pay rates are too low for the first 4 years, but that isn't why there are vacancies in YVR.

[barefootpilot]

Lots of open spots for YVR, but don't expect to get them in new hire classes. AC needs to fill the spots on Rouge for start up June 1. So look for 319fo and 767fo spots up for grabs.

[LeakyFloats]

Any word on if some of the LCC will be YVR based in the future?

[DBC]

Any word on if some of the LCC will be YVR based in the future?

The cynic in me sees them keeping a single LCC base. I believe the new forced contract has deadhead only days at the LCC as zero credit, only counting towards the maximum calendar days at work. this lets you run something like a Mexican turn out of YVR with zero credit deadhead days at the start and end, but still fitting the overall 16 day monthly limit.

[SilentMajority]

Any word on if some of the LCC will be YVR based in the future?

The cynic in me sees them keeping a single LCC base. I believe the new forced contract has deadhead only days at the LCC as zero credit, only counting towards the maximum calendar days at work. this lets you run something like a Mexican turn out of YVR with zero credit deadhead days at the start and end, but still fitting the overall 16 day monthly limit.

Rumour has it that most of the Hawaii flying (HNL, OGG, KOA) will be done by Rouge starting winter/spring 2014. My guess..... 1/3 of Rouge flying will eventually be based out of YVR.

[LeakyFloats]

Thanks for all the replies guys. A lot of good info there.

One more quick question though:

As a new hire if I were given a YYZ LCC 319 position and then a month or two later a YVR 320 FO position comes up that I were able to hold would I be awarded the position considering there would be no additional training required? Or would I be frozen on the LCC side?

[snag]

I believe it's just a training freeze, and no new training is required, but this is new territory.

All I can find in the contract is that if you were to switch to mainline, you couldn't switch back to the same type at LCC for 24 months.

[Jack In The Box]

So, pardon me for the naiive question, I have not been following the threads until now, but in order to get on at mainline, you will have to go through Rouge in the future?

[altiplano]

No. It's just a matter of what's open and how your start date fits with their training plan. Right now the LCC is ramping up so guys should expect to see a number of those spots...

[Jack In The Box]

No. It's just a matter of what's open and how your start date fits with their training plan. Right now the LCC is ramping up so guys should expect to see a number of those spots...

So, in other words, one could expect there is a reasonable chance of being stuck at LCC? What are the stipulations for getting out of there. Are you frozen at LCC or could you bid the next position on to mainline?

[DBC]

4 year training freeze, any 67 LCC guys will have virtually zero opportunity to get out, the odd 319 LCC might pull it off but I would not expect it. As each plane shifts to rouge, it's a loss of mainline positions so I think it will be very unlikley for either of those two mainline spots going to rouge level seniority.

That said the company has the right to release the freeze if they want to.

[TheStig]

No. It's just a matter of what's open and how your start date fits with their training plan. Right now the LCC is ramping up so guys should expect to see a number of those spots...

So, in other words, one could expect there is a reasonable chance of being stuck at LCC? What are the stipulations for getting out of there. Are you frozen at LCC or could you bid the next position on to mainline?

JITB just wondering, would you consider being 'stuck' at rouge to be worse than being at mainline? Why?

[Jack In The Box]

No. It's just a matter of what's open and how your start date fits with their training plan. Right now the LCC is ramping up so guys should expect to see a number of those spots...

So, in other words, one could expect there is a reasonable chance of being stuck at LCC? What are the stipulations for getting out of there. Are you frozen at LCC or could you bid the next position on to mainline?

JITB just wondering, would you consider being 'stuck' at rouge to be worse than being at mainline? Why?

I'm not sure if this a serious question or not?

I think it would be fair to say I have some serious concerns about Rouge, and other LCC's, which appears to be the direction Canadian airlines are headed. I'm all for making a sacrifice to set yourself up for the future, but I'm doing my due diligence before hand. Based on my limited observations of pay scale and concerns over work rules, I would consider being frozen at Rouge while mainline positions open up to be "stuck."

*edit* I'm doing my research now, and finding out about the pay now. It seems I was somewhat misinformed, the Rouge pay, while not fabulous, is definitely better then I thought. Certainly makes things a bit easier

[TheStig]

I'm not sure if this a serious question or not?

I think it would be fair to say I have some serious concerns about Rouge, and other LCC's, which appears to be the direction Canadian airlines are headed. I'm all for making a sacrifice to set yourself up for the future, but I'm doing my due diligence before hand. Based on my limited observations of pay scale and concerns over work rules, I would consider being frozen at Rouge while mainline positions open up to be "stuck."

*edit* I'm doing my research now, and finding out about the pay now. It seems I was somewhat misinformed, the Rouge pay, while not fabulous, is definitely better then I thought. Certainly makes things a bit easier

Fair enough, I think most pilots at AC have some concerns about what the working conditions and schedule at rouge will look like, but despite that, the EMJ Captain position in YYZ is actually being awarded to pilots junior to those awarded the first bunch of Captains positions at rouge. If I was looking at joining AC right now I'd be more concerned about being assigned the EMJ YYZ to be honest. With the 175's being phased out, and new hires frozen on type for 4 years there could be very little movement on the EMJ and the last group trained onto the EMJ will likely be on reserve for a while, with pilots hired after them picking up spots at the LCC and enjoying a much better schedule.

Really I'm just curious why there is such a negative perception of flying for rouge here on avcanada, within the company I'd say attitude range more between skeptical to curious for those with seniority numbers who might be considering bidding to positions at rouge.

[Jack In The Box]

I'm not sure if this a serious question or not?

I think it would be fair to say I have some serious concerns about Rouge, and other LCC's, which appears to be the direction Canadian airlines are headed. I'm all for making a sacrifice to set yourself up for the future, but I'm doing my due diligence before hand. Based on my limited observations of pay scale and concerns over work rules, I would consider being frozen at Rouge while mainline positions open up to be "stuck."

*edit* I'm doing my research now, and finding out about the pay now. It seems I was somewhat misinformed, the Rouge pay, while not fabulous, is definitely better then I thought. Certainly makes things a bit easier

Fair enough, I think most pilots at AC have some concerns about what the working conditions and schedule at rouge will look like, but despite that, the EMJ Captain position in YYZ is actually being awarded to pilots junior to those awarded the first bunch of Captains positions at rouge. If I was looking at joining AC right now I'd be more concerned about being assigned the EMJ YYZ to be honest. With the 175's being phased out, and new hires frozen on type for 4 years there could be very little movement on the EMJ and the last group trained onto the EMJ will likely be on reserve for a while, with pilots hired after them picking up spots at the LCC and enjoying a much better schedule.

Really I'm just curious why there is such a negative perception of flying for rouge here on avcanada, within the company I'd say attitude range more between skeptical to curious for those with seniority numbers who might be considering bidding to positions at rouge.

In the last few days, as I have spoken with others about and actually done some research on the possibility of working for Rouge and what that would entail, I'll admit my attitude towards it has changed greatly (this since that last post). For me, personally, I think my argument against it was an appeal to ignorance (just simply not understanding it), and probably the same for a lot of people. There are definitely a lot of unknowns, with respect to work rules and job security there. However, you make a great point about EMJ. Thanks for your thoughts Stig.

[Jack In The Box]

And on that note, I'm curious about the outlook for the E-190s at AC. Are there further plans to give them to Sky Regional (excuse me while I go barf)? Or is that just for the E-175s?

What is the job security like for the Embraer pilots? I remember hearing something about it in the recent contract talks.

[aV1aTOr]

And on that note, I'm curious about the outlook for the E-190s at AC. Are there further plans to give them to Sky Regional (excuse me while I go barf)? Or is that just for the E-175s?

What is the job security like for the Embraer pilots? I remember hearing something about it in the recent contract talks.

The current contract stipulates a maximum number of seats (per jet) that can be flown by tier 2 carriers for AC. That number is less than the E190s. So in order for AC to move any more EMJs to Sky or anyone else, they have to break the contract. All the 175s are in the process of moving to Sky already, so if the 190s leave the fleet, it won't be to a Tier 2 carrier; their ASMs will have to be replaced at mainline according to the current contract.